SOHA II - Super SE Hybrid
Jun 22, 2008 at 4:50 AM Post #61 of 707
Quote:

Originally Posted by ericj /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I should probably finish my Stacker II before asking to prototype this amp . . . .

maybe I'll do that tomorrow.



Well, as soon as I get my heatsink insulators from Jeff (on their way!!!!), I'll be able to fire my Stacker II up as well. Why is it I always forget one little thing on that Mouser order?

I've got a lot of tubes I'd like to throw in it.

For me it was a choice between waiting on the SOHA II kinks to be worked out when we were messing with it over a year ago, and going forward with the Stacker II. I just have too many different tubes I'd like to try. I'm hoping the Stacker II also makes a great pre, because of the ability to try those different tubes.
 
Jun 22, 2008 at 5:46 AM Post #62 of 707
I am looking forward to hearing your impressions. I took some time out to paint the soha ii chassis and managed to get the image on the top plate - got a little damaged but overall worked out to my liking..dB

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Jun 22, 2008 at 6:25 AM Post #63 of 707
Quote:

Originally Posted by amb /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Gross, "SE" here refer to the single-ended output stage topology (as opposed to "push-pull"). You're confusing the terminology where it's SE vs. balanced (i.e., ground-referenced vs. differential). Very different concepts.

The term "single-ended" is very overloaded and causes lots of confusion. That's why I prefer to use the word "unbalanced" rather than "SE" in the second scenario.




Oh, I think we are all on the same level here, it is just a matter of lingo used. I work for a prosound company and deal with balanced and unbalanced connections all day. I guess ultimately what I was asking was if the amp will have a unbalanced input, with a push-pull buffer output.

But thanks for trying to clear things up.
 
Jun 22, 2008 at 5:46 PM Post #64 of 707
I look forward to reading about the impressions from the folks doing the prototypes. The tube rolling option is a nice design addition. Great work!

I have to say I stayed away from the SOHA partly because of the whole Digi issue. It is great that you have forged ahead and have improved the design in the process. Have no worries, I will only build this using the official board purchased from an authorized source.
 
Jun 29, 2008 at 7:00 PM Post #67 of 707
Thanks Ferrari.

As are result of input from the team and dBel84's prototype, we've made a few mods to the board. Final version went to Jeff R for making proto boards.

The rest of the proto team has been very helpful in looking at enclosure opportunities and helping me ensure that the website is ready to go.

Things will have to wait a bit now for the boards to come back. Should be soon.

If I am persuaded enough that the theft of my designs has stopped, I may post the front end design so you all can see the whole amp.
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-ac-
 
Jun 30, 2008 at 6:27 PM Post #68 of 707
This sounds like an awesome design with alot of options. I especially like the tube-rolling ability. I'll be on the look-out for a group buy, unless you need another prototyper
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I'm in-between projects and quite bored. So bored, that I have started doing things around the house before my wife asks me to
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Jun 30, 2008 at 7:56 PM Post #69 of 707
Quote:

Originally Posted by djbob /img/forum/go_quote.gif
So bored, that I have started doing things around the house before my wife asks me to
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That cant be good
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Jun 30, 2008 at 8:11 PM Post #70 of 707
Quote:

Originally Posted by djbob /img/forum/go_quote.gif
So bored, that I have started doing things around the house before my wife asks me to
eek.gif



We'll try to fix that.
 
Jul 1, 2008 at 8:58 PM Post #71 of 707
Glad to see that the SOHA II appears to be approaching a release to the masses point finally with Proto boards being produced.

Have been anxiously awaiting the release of the "Real" SOHA by runeight since the original SOHA thread was posted and then rapidly derailed....

I had no interest in buying the original SOHA Digi hacked board. Thought about building a P-P circuit, but decided I would just wait till the "Official" runeight design would be brought out as a thru-hole PCB offering.

I suppose that says, I have no intention of participating in any venture that involves the theft of anothers intellectual capital. I eagerly await a runeight santioned release of the SOHA.

If you need any other proto builders or help in reviewing tech data (BOMS, write ups, etc), I offer to help in any way. I really would like to see this project come to fruition.

It is very unfortunate that runeight (and others) feel that they can not actively present their designs (due to concerns over the loss of intellectual data rights) in these DIY forumns as a collaborative environment to gain Peer review and comment to various circuit implementation approaches and concepts. As such, all suffer from not being exposed to that design process, nor the designers benefiting by others inputs/comments) and the community from the learning oppurtunity that is lost.

Certainly, it would be easier if all respected the individual's rights to ownership of intellectual data, but maybe the forumns rules need to be ratcheted up a couple notches and more rigorously enforced (ie Don't allow group sales of "unsanctioned" PCB's). Maybe a separate forumn topic area could be established just to afford circuit developement and prototyping to be accomplished in a "No Stealing ZONE"..... Don't know if this is possible or even desireable - just a thought.

Again, glad to see the SOHA II approaching a release point - its been a long time coming...
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Jul 1, 2008 at 9:37 PM Post #72 of 707
Thanks very much 04BluMach. We're getting very close to having boards for the prototype team.

I appreciate your thoughts here. I have almost completely stopped introducing collaborative threads because of the way many individuals (not just Digi) participated in sidetracking the SOHA.

But, I am going to try again on this forum to see if those very same individuals will do the same again. I guess you can say, "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me." We shall see.
 
Jul 1, 2008 at 11:02 PM Post #73 of 707
Alright, now it's time to talk about the input stage.

There were several problems with the input stage of the SOHA:

1. A difficult CCS situation
2. The need for a trimpot to adjust the plate voltage every time tubes are changed
3. Inability to run tubes other than 12AU7s

The first problem to tackle is #2. How can we automate the equivalent of the trimpot adjustment? Well, the first necessary item is a way to sense the voltage at the plate of the triode. We must be able to measure this to compare it against a reference so that we can adjust some control point on the triode (such as the cathode resistance).

But, remember that an important design parameter is the impedance that the input stage sees. We want to keep it very high. Now the only way to sense the plate voltage is to put a resistor there connected to some active circuit (like an opamp servo). And this resistor will always reduce the load on the tube. Unless we make it something like 10M in which case it will introduce noise. Furthermore, using an active mechanism like an opamp servo introduces complexity that we really shouldn't have in the input stage (but it's ok in the buffer where we MUST control the DC offset).

So, what do we do? Well, we need another kind of sensing and reference scheme. For the SOHA II, the sense/reference scheme is a common cathode amplifier (a sibling of a differential amp) that uses two triodes connected at their cathodes. Like this:

SOHAIIInputStage.png


Now much explanation is required so hang in there.

First, the tail of the triode pair is loaded with an adjustable CCS. Don't panic yet because the trimpot has a different function than the SOHA. This CCS is typically set to run at 2mA.

Second, the plate loads are a current mirror with the control (diode) side of the mirror on the first plate. This current mirror divides the current between the two triodes exaclty in half (within component tolerances) setting the current in each triode to 1mA.

The behavior of these two CCSs never changes unless the stage goes out of its operating region (say by being way over driven). The fact that they never change is really important. Why?

Well, look at the circuit on the first plate. It consists of a 220R resistor, the BE junction of the BJT, and an 18k resistor in series. Remember that these three components are always seeing 1mA of current which means that they will always drop approximately 19V. If the B+ is at 60V (the design center) then the plate voltage on the first triode will be 41V.

So far so good.
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Now, what happens at the second triode? Well, the tail CCS adjusts the cathode voltage so that the first triode will pass 1mA with 41v on its plate. This is the same cathode voltage that is on the second triode. Now since the second triode has the same cathode voltage as the first triode and since it is conducting exactly the same current, 1mA, then its plate voltage MUST be the same as the first triode, namely 41V.

Of course, how close the second triode's plate voltage is to 41V depends on how well the triodes are matched. In general, triodes in the same package of a functioning tube are farily well matched. Furthermore, the circuit will tolerate some amount of mismatch. The voltage on the second plate won't be exactly 41V, but gents these are tubes and a few volts in either direction really doesn't matter. Still, the closer the triodes, the closer the plate voltages.

If you look carefully you will also see that the first triode operates as a cathode follower because its plate voltage is held constant. The cathode follower drives the second stage which is wired as a grounded grid amplifier. So, this is not a differential amplifier. One othe feature of this configuration is that it does not invert the phase of the signal.

Notice that there is no tube type on the schematic. This is because the CCS and mirror do their jobs no matter what type of triodes are there. The only thing that changes is the cathode bias that will set that triode's operating point to be 41V and 1mA.

Back to the trimpot. The trimipot only needs to be set once to establish 2mA in the cathode circuit. After that you can roll tubes until you drop and the circuit will do the right thing without your having to make any adjustments.

And if there are tubes that are way out of balance, you'll just hear it in when the second triode hits the rails too soon. Bad tube.

Also, any triode pair will work providing that they can operate at the low voltage, low current conditions. A good rule of thumb is that the triodes are safe if the cathode voltage is at least 300mV above ground.

The current mirror's dynamic half presents over 3M resistance to the plate. This resistance is in parallel with the buffer's Zi (about 950k), making the actual plate load about 720k. This is high enough for any triode pair that I can think of using in this amp.

So here we have it. The replacement of the SOHA front end that removes its problems and lets you tube roll, not just different tube of the same type, but different types of twin triodes too.

The last step is to put the buffer together with the input stage to make a single channel amp. There is one more feature when this happens that will have to wait until that post.
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Jul 2, 2008 at 2:00 AM Post #74 of 707
Quote:

Originally Posted by runeight /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Thanks very much 04BluMach. We're getting very close to having boards for the prototype team.

I appreciate your thoughts here. I have almost completely stopped introducing collaborative threads because of the way many individuals (not just Digi) participated in sidetracking the SOHA.

But, I am going to try again on this forum to see if those very same individuals will do the same again. I guess you can say, "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me." We shall see.



runeight,
I think it will be hard to avoid what happened the last time. For example, there were clones of Tangent's PPA boards being offered for sale in the Far East. When people have the capability but not the ethics then it will not occur to them that it is wrong.

But to be fair, even though I am no fan of the person who sold the SOHA board, the SOHA incident was not a case of piracy but an individual who used an opportunity of a community desire for a PCB, to profit from it by organising the PCB production.

Rather then being continually haunted by this incident, we should just learn from it and move on. Just my 2 cents.

Regards.
 
Jul 2, 2008 at 2:28 AM Post #75 of 707
Quote:

Originally Posted by Heady /img/forum/go_quote.gif
runeight,
Rather then being continually haunted by this incident, we should just learn from it and move on. Just my 2 cents.

Regards.



Thanks Heady. I am counting on it.
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