[system11]

I noticed this when I visited Hifilounge and tried out some alternatives to my Denons (which ultimately I ended up keeping).  Some were too heavy and hot to wear, some managed to be heavy but also felt like they'd fall off with the slightest provocation.  Some felt like torture instruments.  Some were unable to form a seal at all due to the flat circle and rigidity of the pads.  Some were supposed to be closed but perhaps only for people with tiny ears.  Some designed for people with ears inexplicably close to their faces, and others with band adjustment steps which are too large.
 
It's kind of sad really, comfort/fit really should be one of the easiest parts.

 

[TommiK]

  I noticed this when I visited Hifilounge and tried out some alternatives to my Denons (which ultimately I ended up keeping).  Some were too heavy and hot to wear, some managed to be heavy but also felt like they'd fall off with the slightest provocation.  Some felt like torture instruments.  Some were unable to form a seal at all due to the flat circle and rigidity of the pads.  Some were supposed to be closed but perhaps only for people with tiny ears.  Some designed for people with ears inexplicably close to their faces, and others with band adjustment steps which are too large.
 
It's kind of sad really, comfort/fit really should be one of the easiest parts.

really the only logical solution

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Originally Posted by system11 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

It's kind of sad really, comfort/fit really should be one of the easiest parts.

 

Actually, it isn't, and this isn't exclusive to headphones. Look at bikes - some people are on Ducatis and KTMs (and Aprilias) because they feel getting bow-legged or otherwise the leg twists around wider-set inline-4 engines. Triumph and now MVAgusta go with Inline-3 engines to keep the engine narrower, while retaining the advantages of an inline engine, which keeps all its weight forward and having simpler cams and drive mechanisms. At the same time you can get people complaining about Ducatis - as much as their legs are comfortable and won't strain much less require effort from their spine, the latter will take on a different challenge of their own as Ducati and KTM (RC-8) seats for example are really designed for controlling the bike at high speed, not stop and go traffic. We're not even on how some people find the seats on bikes like the Monster an awkward mix of Cruiser and sports bike outside of impractical custom chopper designs.

 

Even cars can face the same problem. Most cars seem comfortable enough, but we're talking about cars more along the lines of sitting in a plane or a train. Swap that for a sports car or performance car, it is now more comparable to being in fighter jet than a passenger plane. You'd get to hear more from car mag editors about their seats - sometimes their average (ie, slightly overweight frames) don't fit; the slender ones fit in some, but then complain about sliding around on the seat when wearing certain fabrics or at the very least the seat bolsters don't support them well enough. While even MVAgusta won't do highly custom jobs apart from adjusting foot pegs for example, Ferrari will take the customer's measurements into account, if not have sample seats at the dealer so they can try which ones fit comfortably around their frame. And heck, so far, I've only just discussed the seats in a car, while other factors are involved. Weight distribution means that they push the engine farther back on a front engine car, and in mid-engine Lambos they put the transmission inside the passenger compartment (with the engine between it and the rear differential). That means a bulky trans tunnel, and in front-mid engine cars can mean pushing the gas pedal to the left, if not move the other two pedals also. It doesn't look like much but believe me, your right foot isn't going to like being pointed straight and then bent at the knee regulating the accelerator. Pro racers can do their shifts in endurance races only because they're in top physical condition.

 

Why have I been using performance vehicles? Because the requirements for performance in a car has parallels in audio, and with headphones more specifically, plus you have to consider how much smaller the profit margins are.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by system11 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Some were too heavy and hot to wear

 

In some cases this is caused by the drivers, specifically, the magnets. Large magnets help with controlling the driver movement better, voice coil-dynamic or not, and rare earth magnets aren't always going to shrink them down far enough.  Best example of this though are the huge LCD-x series and many HiFiMans. You might notice though that the latter has a new headband design that basically follows the angle of how people bend the headbands on Grados for example,basically an example of how knowledge accumulates within each company (although AFAIK I've seen a very similar design on the Abyss first). Heat is also a greater factor not just due to weight but earpad materials. Better seals mean denser foam, or lining that with leather - less noise coming in and less coming out means the bass is at least perceived to be (if not actually) louder since the noise floor is lower while less of that bass leaks out.

 

Going back to cars and bikes, in terms of heat think of how many sports cars don't come with A/C as standard, from the cheap Miata all the way up to the F40; some can have hot spots somewhere on the floor due to the exhaust; performance bikes are essentially called "crotch rockets" not just because of riding but also because they get hot around the crotch area because the pipes are routed under seat to clear the asphalt when leaning hard on the corners. Weight is also a problem, despite how one thinks they should be light. In the most base scenario, larger engines means more weight, which means more issues with packaging the engine in the chassis (or designing the car or bike around it, however you want to think about it), as in the examples I enumerated above. The added weight if not well distributed can affect handling, like nose-heavy big engine cars, or the reverse being the tail whipping (older) 911.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by system11 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

some managed to be heavy but also felt like they'd fall off with the slightest provocation.

 

In order to keep the headphone "comfortable" one of the ways to do it is to give it a relaxed clamp, but that reduces friction.  In terms of a car, think of how a(n older0 911 is very agile and can be steered with the throttle because physics (rear-engine, rear drive), but one too quick lift of the right foot and you'll end up as blood and oil graffiti on the canyon wall. At the same time, the older 911s didn't have power steering and took a while before they got one, because they had a tendency to numb the feel for the road, hence making them "heavy" in low speeds or otherwise any situation around town.

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by system11 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Some felt like torture instruments.

 

Some of them rely on tighter clamp to keep them on as well as seal around the ear, but of course individual fit isn't going to be universal (plus there's a variance in tolerance to that force). Think of this as how one's back will hate the seat on Ducatis, or if you purchased a car that the owner modified to have a Recaro seat to his size and you're a bit chubbier than he is, and then he might have put in a five-way belt; and then in both cases factor in the suspension because better handling usually means an overall stiffer suspension, barring the point where you bounce off the corner of the track because it's too stiff and/or because the tyres are too thin (note that bigger wheels primarily are meant to house larger brakes, not simply to make the rubber thinner). Reactive suspension systems add a lot of weight, not to mention make the car too complex, which is why Mercedes might use it on the SL/CL but you won't necessarily expect a Mazda or Honda to have such a system, even on the RX or NSX.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by system11 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Some were unable to form a seal at all due to the flat circle and rigidity of the pads.

 

Again, individual skull shape has variances. Others' skulls may not slope as badly or the earlobes are smaller. These aren't obvious looking at a person but can matter from one headphone to another. In a similar manner sports cars save on weight by not having the same kind of sealing quality as Bentleys, much less the suspension of a Rolls Royce (also, see the previous entry). And again, there's the fit on the seats - generally height and weight/build are the primary considerations but what if your shoulders really are wider? If the driver is female, she can be slim but have wide hips and butt, making the small size Bride seat potentially problematic for those areas.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by system11 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Some were supposed to be closed but perhaps only for people with tiny ears. 

 

The idea here is portability. A lot more people can easily cram a B&W P7 or an Oppo PM-3 or an MDR-1R into their bags, but won't fit around larger earlobes much less those that are angled outward. There's the K550/551/553 from AKG, but if you were expecting to fold them flat and fit them in the front pocket of a laptop bag since they're that flat, but you'd need to use a bag designed for a larger laptop, which can be a drag if you prefer a 13in or 11in (see, even bag designers have trouble with non-standard sizes - easy enough to design and advertise for Macs, but Windows machines sometimes will only fit in bags designed for the next size up Mac).

 

Similarly making a sports car smaller and lighter can mean a smaller cabin, and if the engine is big enough, then we're back into the trans tunnel intrusion.

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by system11 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

and others with band adjustment steps which are too large.

 

Again this isn't as simple. It may not necessarily just be the band adjustment steps, but there's certain shape to the skull or earlobes that makes one setting uncomfortable whereas in all other aspects it should be the right fit, but the next step up will be too loose. In the same manner even if car seats and bike foot pegs came in different sizes or settings/shapes they just wouldn't be able to account for all shapes out there. Think of someone who has J.Lo's body buying a car with a seat chosen by the previous owner who happens to have a body closer to the average model.

 

 

-------

 

 

Basically, again, what I'm saying is that it isn't as simple as you think. Your head can have a different shape that really isnt accounted for on even the more comfortable headphones, and then there's individual tolerances. Even the seat used can affect that - those on high-back chairs can lean on them and take the weight of a huge planar headphone off their neck. Look at how Aurisonics for example designed their universal fit but looks like a CIEM monitors on computer-derived averages of their CIEM customers, and the first ASG-1 still came out with a bump that a lot of people hated. That's as scientific as it gets on quantifying the average human body as far as audio goes, and despite having a much smaller area to account for, they still had too many people who didn't like the fit - how much more when the size of the earlobes, skull size, skull shape (cranium, angle relative to the ear behind the ear, etc), etc all have to be taken into account?

 

[goodyfresh]

 

In addition to obobskovitch's points about manufacturers' accumulated experiences, there's still the problem of each headphone being designed for as universal a fit as possible while every head is very different, some may deviate from the average far enough as far as headphones are concerned while not being visible just by looking at that person. A lot of people don't find some uncomfortable but then there will be some who can barely find any of them usable. Even hair can affect that - thicker hair can add to the headband cushion, but it can affect the fit in other ways. Then there's preferences and tolerances that varies from one person to another, which can also be affected by temperature (ie the hotter it is the more uncomfortable all headphones will be in general).

 

Look at AKG for example. I'm one of those who love their self-adjusting headbands, no doubt borne out of their decades of experience, and even with my thinly trimmed hair (my friends call me "Caesar" for it - just look up the busts of Roman Emperors) I wasn't even aware of the bumps until I read how many people hate them. Then there's Sennheiser - they feel comfortable enough but even then it's still advisable to bend the frame on the HD580/600/650 outward, even a little bit.

 
 

  They don't want anything to go wrong with our earsy weersies, everything in moderation children, 30 mins will do, go and play with the other children now.

 
 

 

 

Actually, it isn't, and this isn't exclusive to headphones. Look at bikes - some people are on Ducatis and KTMs (and Aprilias) because they feel getting bow-legged or otherwise the leg twists around wider-set inline-4 engines. Triumph and now MVAgusta go with Inline-3 engines to keep the engine narrower, while retaining the advantages of an inline engine, which keeps all its weight forward and having simpler cams and drive mechanisms. At the same time you can get people complaining about Ducatis - as much as their legs are comfortable and won't strain much less require effort from their spine, the latter will take on a different challenge of their own as Ducati and KTM (RC-8) seats for example are really designed for controlling the bike at high speed, not stop and go traffic. We're not even on how some people find the seats on bikes like the Monster an awkward mix of Cruiser and sports bike outside of impractical custom chopper designs.

 

Even cars can face the same problem. Most cars seem comfortable enough, but we're talking about cars more along the lines of sitting in a plane or a train. Swap that for a sports car or performance car, it is now more comparable to being in fighter jet than a passenger plane. You'd get to hear more from car mag editors about their seats - sometimes their average (ie, slightly overweight frames) don't fit; the slender ones fit in some, but then complain about sliding around on the seat when wearing certain fabrics or at the very least the seat bolsters don't support them well enough. While even MVAgusta won't do highly custom jobs apart from adjusting foot pegs for example, Ferrari will take the customer's measurements into account, if not have sample seats at the dealer so they can try which ones fit comfortably around their frame. And heck, so far, I've only just discussed the seats in a car, while other factors are involved. Weight distribution means that they push the engine farther back on a front engine car, and in mid-engine Lambos they put the transmission inside the passenger compartment (with the engine between it and the rear differential). That means a bulky trans tunnel, and in front-mid engine cars can mean pushing the gas pedal to the left, if not move the other two pedals also. It doesn't look like much but believe me, your right foot isn't going to like being pointed straight and then bent at the knee regulating the accelerator. Pro racers can do their shifts in endurance races only because they're in top physical condition.

 

Why have I been using performance vehicles? Because the requirements for performance in a car has parallels in audio, and with headphones more specifically, plus you have to consider how much smaller the profit margins are.

 

 

In some cases this is caused by the drivers, specifically, the magnets. Large magnets help with controlling the driver movement better, voice coil-dynamic or not, and rare earth magnets aren't always going to shrink them down far enough.  Best example of this though are the huge LCD-x series and many HiFiMans. You might notice though that the latter has a new headband design that basically follows the angle of how people bend the headbands on Grados for example,basically an example of how knowledge accumulates within each company (although AFAIK I've seen a very similar design on the Abyss first). Heat is also a greater factor not just due to weight but earpad materials. Better seals mean denser foam, or lining that with leather - less noise coming in and less coming out means the bass is at least perceived to be (if not actually) louder since the noise floor is lower while less of that bass leaks out.

 

Going back to cars and bikes, in terms of heat think of how many sports cars don't come with A/C as standard, from the cheap Miata all the way up to the F40; some can have hot spots somewhere on the floor due to the exhaust; performance bikes are essentially called "crotch rockets" not just because of riding but also because they get hot around the crotch area because the pipes are routed under seat to clear the asphalt when leaning hard on the corners. Weight is also a problem, despite how one thinks they should be light. In the most base scenario, larger engines means more weight, which means more issues with packaging the engine in the chassis (or designing the car or bike around it, however you want to think about it), as in the examples I enumerated above. The added weight if not well distributed can affect handling, like nose-heavy big engine cars, or the reverse being the tail whipping (older) 911.
 

 

In order to keep the headphone "comfortable" one of the ways to do it is to give it a relaxed clamp, but that reduces friction.  In terms of a car, think of how a(n older0 911 is very agile and can be steered with the throttle because physics (rear-engine, rear drive), but one too quick lift of the right foot and you'll end up as blood and oil graffiti on the canyon wall. At the same time, the older 911s didn't have power steering and took a while before they got one, because they had a tendency to numb the feel for the road, hence making them "heavy" in low speeds or otherwise any situation around town.

 

 

 

 

Some of them rely on tighter clamp to keep them on as well as seal around the ear, but of course individual fit isn't going to be universal (plus there's a variance in tolerance to that force). Think of this as how one's back will hate the seat on Ducatis, or if you purchased a car that the owner modified to have a Recaro seat to his size and you're a bit chubbier than he is, and then he might have put in a five-way belt; and then in both cases factor in the suspension because better handling usually means an overall stiffer suspension, barring the point where you bounce off the corner of the track because it's too stiff and/or because the tyres are too thin (note that bigger wheels primarily are meant to house larger brakes, not simply to make the rubber thinner). Reactive suspension systems add a lot of weight, not to mention make the car too complex, which is why Mercedes might use it on the SL/CL but you won't necessarily expect a Mazda or Honda to have such a system, even on the RX or NSX.

 

 

 

Again, individual skull shape has variances. Others' skulls may not slope as badly or the earlobes are smaller. These aren't obvious looking at a person but can matter from one headphone to another. In a similar manner sports cars save on weight by not having the same kind of sealing quality as Bentleys, much less the suspension of a Rolls Royce (also, see the previous entry). And again, there's the fit on the seats - generally height and weight/build are the primary considerations but what if your shoulders really are wider? If the driver is female, she can be slim but have wide hips and butt, making the small size Bride seat potentially problematic for those areas.

 

 

 

The idea here is portability. A lot more people can easily cram a B&W P7 or an Oppo PM-3 or an MDR-1R into their bags, but won't fit around larger earlobes much less those that are angled outward. There's the K550/551/553 from AKG, but if you were expecting to fold them flat and fit them in the front pocket of a laptop bag since they're that flat, but you'd need to use a bag designed for a larger laptop, which can be a drag if you prefer a 13in or 11in (see, even bag designers have trouble with non-standard sizes - easy enough to design and advertise for Macs, but Windows machines sometimes will only fit in bags designed for the next size up Mac).

 

Similarly making a sports car smaller and lighter can mean a smaller cabin, and if the engine is big enough, then we're back into the trans tunnel intrusion.

 

 

 

 

Again this isn't as simple. It may not necessarily just be the band adjustment steps, but there's certain shape to the skull or earlobes that makes one setting uncomfortable whereas in all other aspects it should be the right fit, but the next step up will be too loose. In the same manner even if car seats and bike foot pegs came in different sizes or settings/shapes they just wouldn't be able to account for all shapes out there. Think of someone who has J.Lo's body buying a car with a seat chosen by the previous owner who happens to have a body closer to the average model.

 

 

-------

 

 

Basically, again, what I'm saying is that it isn't as simple as you think. Your head can have a different shape that really isnt accounted for on even the more comfortable headphones, and then there's individual tolerances. Even the seat used can affect that - those on high-back chairs can lean on them and take the weight of a huge planar headphone off their neck. Look at how Aurisonics for example designed their universal fit but looks like a CIEM monitors on computer-derived averages of their CIEM customers, and the first ASG-1 still came out with a bump that a lot of people hated. That's as scientific as it gets on quantifying the average human body as far as audio goes, and despite having a much smaller area to account for, they still had too many people who didn't like the fit - how much more when the size of the earlobes, skull size, skull shape (cranium, angle relative to the ear behind the ear, etc), etc all have to be taken into account?

Wow.  Such a long post, but very informative with its metaphors from other industries, and with excellent points made!  Thank you sir!
 
So yeah.  I guess this explains better than anything else how it's possible that while the VAST MAJORITY of people find the MDR-1A very very comfortable, some people find it unbearable instead!

 

[Rhamnetin]

It does make me wonder.  It's pretty obvious that some designs are more comfortable than others.  For example, why does HiFiMan make their velour pads out of such a hard material?  They can make it feel like I'm putting bricks over my ears.  
 
Once we get to a higher price range, every headphone should use an adjustable suspension headband design in my opinion.  This will solve many comfort issues.  I see the Stax SR-007 and SR-009 as the benchmarks for headphone comfort (and, coincidentally, the benchmark for true high fidelity sound in headphones).  Soft adjustable suspension headband, soft pads, thick/deep pads especially on the SR-007.

 

[goodyfresh]

  It does make me wonder.  It's pretty obvious that some designs are more comfortable than others.  For example, why does HiFiMan make their velour pads out of such a hard material?  They can make it feel like I'm putting bricks over my ears.  
 
Once we get to a higher price range, every headphone should use an adjustable suspension headband design in my opinion.  This will solve many comfort issues.  I see the Stax SR-007 and SR-009 as the benchmarks for headphone comfort (and, coincidentally, the benchmark for true high fidelity sound in headphones).  Soft adjustable suspension headband, soft pads, thick/deep pads especially on the SR-007.

+1

 

[ProtegeManiac]

 
Wow.  Such a long post, but very informative with its metaphors from other industries, and with excellent points made!  Thank you sir!
 
So yeah.  I guess this explains better than anything else how it's possible that while the VAST MAJORITY of people find the MDR-1A very very comfortable, some people find it unbearable instead!

 

I loved the MDR-1R, but ten minutes later my ears were hot and the clamp felt stronger. Adjusted, and then it still kept getting stronger a few songs later. That was a pair broken in by the owner already, far from being fresh out of the box. Really the thing is that ergonomics is the hardest thing to get.

 

Another industry for example would be clothing. Look at how many people are baring their cracks because they have no idea that when Britney Spears wears low riders (and with no belts), these were customized to her shape. Dress pants are often sold with the hems unfinished and longer than usual so they can be adjusted; jeans don't, but then the sad part about having very tough, high quality denim pants like Levi's modified is that the stitching isn't going to be as strong as what the factory does. Even then that's just length - in many cases I have to get the width adjusted because while my waist is 34, I need a 36 so the inseam can wrap around my rear end, but then the inseam also made the legs too wide it looks like I'm going to wear white sneakers with my black suit and go break dancing. Shirts aren't any better - either I find "slim" cuts but get two sizes up (fits around my midsection, but the shoulders on them aren't off the mark), while some "regular" sizes are either too long or too wide (and when either fits right, the other is screwed up, or it's tighter than some slim fits). If online shopping can't beat brick and mortar in one regard, this would be it, at least until Amazon can use full body scans (finally some use for those airport scanners!) to simulate the fit.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhamnetin /img/forum/go_quote.gif

It does make me wonder.  It's pretty obvious that some designs are more comfortable than others.  For example, why does HiFiMan make their velour pads out of such a hard material?  They can make it feel like I'm putting bricks over my ears.  

 

Softer won't always mean better - if they compress too much then in most cases the sound will be affected, in some cases the ear lobe can already get too tight in there. I guess HiFiMan is going for something that will give them more consistent reviews in terms of sound, while the HD600 by contrast has wildly different reviews. It's not all just perception, but if you were around the tail end of listening to this pair and the same earpads during a meet for example (and they didn't just listen to one or two tracks) they'll sound warmer as the fit gets tighter. The only way to minimize this is to bend the metal frame of the headband to relax the grip so it won't wear down the earpads quickly (wear on the headband pad however is another story).

 

 

 

 

[goodyfresh]

 

 

 

Softer won't always mean better - if they compress too much then in most cases the sound will be affected, in some cases the ear lobe can already get too tight in there. I guess HiFiMan is going for something that will give them more consistent reviews in terms of sound, while the HD600 by contrast has wildly different reviews. It's not all just perception, but if you were around the tail end of listening to this pair and the same earpads during a meet for example (and they didn't just listen to one or two tracks) they'll sound warmer as the fit gets tighter. The only way to minimize this is to bend the metal frame of the headband to relax the grip so it won't wear down the earpads quickly (wear on the headband pad however is another story).

 

 

 

On the other hand, pads that are too stiff will have the seal very easily broken by, say, glasses.  As someone who wears glasses, I love the super-soft pillowy pads on Sony headphones like the MDR-1A, because they don't take much at all to form a seal and my glasses dont' seem to affect the seal at all.

 

[headhog]

I have this issue as well but I don't blame the headphone companys it's all me my ears stick far out. For a long time I thought it was normal to feel discomfort until I tried the ah-d2000 i'm currently using a mod t50rp with mrspeakers alpha pads for me it really comes down to how deep the pads are.

 

[goodyfresh]

  I have this issue as well but I don't blame the headphone companys it's all me my ears stick far out. For a long time I thought it was normal to feel discomfort until I tried the ah-d2000 i'm currently using a mod t50rp with mrspeakers alpha pads for me it really comes down to how deep the pads are.

Yeah, people with ears that stick really far out are really unlucky when it comes to finding comfortable headphones.  I'm glad my own ears are very close-in to my head, haha.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

 
Yeah, people with ears that stick really far out are really unlucky when it comes to finding comfortable headphones.  I'm glad my own ears are very close-in to my head, haha.

 
That will be until you need a photo compatible with face recognition. I had to get a haircut for my passport photo because my ears are barely there as it is, and then longer hair hides them (unfortunately my hair wasn't long enough for a ponytail, and gel couldn't keep them hugging my skull either).

 

[goodyfresh]

   
That will be until you need a photo compatible with face recognition. I had to get a haircut for my passport photo because my ears are barely there as it is, and then longer hair hides them (unfortunately my hair wasn't long enough for a ponytail, and gel couldn't keep them hugging my skull either).

Weird.  I didn't know that was something they made people do these days.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  Weird.  I didn't know that was something they made people do these days.

 

My aunt actually combed her hair backwards and behind her ear, and it was still getting rejected by facial rec - what's visible from the front are just two bumps, the very top of the earlobe and a bit of that chunk of cartilage towards the jaw. Maybe the technology is better now, but this was just three years ago. I was all, "you are aware that most of the people you're looking for have some kind of cloth over their heads, bushy hair, beards, and maybe cloth all over their faces?" but then the guy said, "drug lords only have beards; plus maybe a hat."

 

I'm just routinely annoyed that whenever I fly to the US I need to shave my goatee, especially when even the people who actually belong to groups that can get profiled are the ones who told me to, because even they thought I belonged to the same group that I can't name because it's verboten to even mention any such terms here.

 

[Jackson 6]

As Protege said, the real villainy comes from motorbikes. So many that I like are no go's because of the seat and suspension, or their too small, don't have a fuel indicator, under powered for their engine size..but it's the seat that is the most damming. And the kings ransom to fit an exhaust that rises above 3 decibels. And I'm not talking about pure sports bikes, but certain cruisers, and normal bikes. And how about the £900 to take the licence, when you've been riding for three years already?  Both my sony iem's and studio monitors are itchy in the long run, but it's a far lesser crime. 

 

[SomeGuyDude]

That's one thing that I just do not understand at all. Like, love them or hate them, Beats headphones are stupid comfy. I almost want to buy a pair just to have some earmuffs that also play some music. Meanwhile, my K712s that I just adore to pieces constantly need readjusting and feel awkward. 
 
For one thing, that whole "hammock" headband needs to go away. That might work for putting the headphones on a completely static object, but if I'm starting to groove or get into anything, movements cause the band to stretch and retract and goes all over the place. Let ME decide the fit, don't try and come up with some goofy system to do it for me. 
 
For another, the material in earpads is just awful in so many headphones. Grado is the worst offender. Again, consumer grade headphones understand this, even if the speakers inside them are less than stellar. Grab a set of Beats, Samsung Level, Bose, whatever. Those are made with more than just the raw sound quality in mind, they remember that the things are going to spend a lot of time on someone's head. 
 
And then you get the ones with no rotational system on the earcups, they're just stuck at flat parallel as though anyone on earth has a head shaped that way. BAH.