SMSL M400 MQA DAC
Jan 12, 2021 at 12:48 PM Post #91 of 124
Hi guys, this looks interesting but I am a bit confused. Sorry I am a newbie if you don't mind. So this is a dac isn't it? It's not an amplifier. So I can't use it to also connect my TV's output? As far as I understood this is for computers to use as an external dac, is that right? (I am asking because I saw an hdmi and optical input behind the device)
 
Jan 13, 2021 at 12:45 AM Post #92 of 124
this is a dac; Digital to Analog Converter. The signal from your tv is digital 48kHz via a toslink cable if you want to avoid the mostly cheap internal dac. Normally an amplifier is analog so you'll need a dac between the 2.

However the hdmi input you see on this dac is labelled i²S (or iis) and is not meant for video. You should NOT connect your tv's hdmi output (like to a soundbar) to it. i²S is raw audio data like between a cd-lens and internal dac. It is needed to transport high-res PCM and DSD data. Hdmi was just an existing cable suitable for this purpose because there was no such standard for outside the box HR signals. There is no standard yet and the plugs could be wired differently. But for connecting FI my SMSL DP5 to the M400 you don't need to worry. Then its the best connection that allows >DSD128

You can also use it to connect your pc, dap, cd-player, BD-player, phone, you name it.

Just if as you said you are a noob, it's quite a luxury entry point. A €100 dac or an amp with built in dac wvould fully suffice for tv.

If you care about 5.1 or surround you need a different kind of dac-chip or just an AV-receiver. Although good quality front channels is way more important than the surround bells and whistles.


Hi guys, this looks interesting but I am a bit confused. Sorry I am a newbie if you don't mind. So this is a dac isn't it? It's not an amplifier. So I can't use it to also connect my TV's output? As far as I understood this is for computers to use as an external dac, is that right? (I am asking because I saw an hdmi and optical input behind the device)
 
Jan 13, 2021 at 4:25 AM Post #93 of 124
this is a dac; Digital to Analog Converter. The signal from your tv is digital 48kHz via a toslink cable if you want to avoid the mostly cheap internal dac. Normally an amplifier is analog so you'll need a dac between the 2.

However the hdmi input you see on this dac is labelled i²S (or iis) and is not meant for video. You should NOT connect your tv's hdmi output (like to a soundbar) to it. i²S is raw audio data like between a cd-lens and internal dac. It is needed to transport high-res PCM and DSD data. Hdmi was just an existing cable suitable for this purpose because there was no such standard for outside the box HR signals. There is no standard yet and the plugs could be wired differently. But for connecting FI my SMSL DP5 to the M400 you don't need to worry. Then its the best connection that allows >DSD128

You can also use it to connect your pc, dap, cd-player, BD-player, phone, you name it.

Just if as you said you are a noob, it's quite a luxury entry point. A €100 dac or an amp with built in dac wvould fully suffice for tv.

If you care about 5.1 or surround you need a different kind of dac-chip or just an AV-receiver. Although good quality front channels is way more important than the surround bells and whistles.
Hey Jeep, thanks a million for the detailed answer, wow I learned a lot about it now. I think you're right, it's a bit too much for me, at least for now :)
 
Jan 13, 2021 at 11:41 AM Post #94 of 124
Hey Jeep, thanks a million for the detailed answer, wow I learned a lot about it now. I think you're right, it's a bit too much for me, at least for now :)
if you seek an amplifier that you can directly connect your tv to via optical you might be perfectly happy with the $120 SMSL Q5 pro. Good looks, plenty inputs, even a seperate subwoofer output, remote... small but solid

https:/www.aliexpress.com/item/32826725920.html
(hope i have it right, cleaned up the link) This is the official store, you can even get it quite a bit cheaper on AE (less than 100, free shipping ) .
 
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Jan 13, 2021 at 12:37 PM Post #95 of 124
if you seek an amplifier that you can directly connect your tv to via optical you might be perfectly happy with the $120 SMSL Q5 pro. Good looks, plenty inputs, even a seperate subwoofer output, remote... small but solid

https:/www.aliexpress.com/item/32826725920.html
(hope i have it right, cleaned up the link) This is the official store, you can even get it quite a bit cheaper on AE (less than 100, free shipping ) .
You helped me a lot mate, thanks a million, I will check that out now :thumbsup:
 
Jan 14, 2021 at 12:53 PM Post #96 of 124
if you seek an amplifier that you can directly connect your tv to via optical you might be perfectly happy with the $120 SMSL Q5 pro. Good looks, plenty inputs, even a seperate subwoofer output, remote... small but solid

https:/www.aliexpress.com/item/32826725920.html
(hope i have it right, cleaned up the link) This is the official store, you can even get it quite a bit cheaper on AE (less than 100, free shipping ) .
Hey Jeep, I have another question if you don't mind. What is the best way of connecting a dap with 3.5mm normal headphone output or 4.4mm balanced output to this dap you recommended or the one I wanted to get? I read from some blogs that balanced output always gives the best sound. However these dacs don't have any input I can connect my dap I guess. Is 3.5mm to rca cable balanced? or is there a cable from 4.4mm balanced output to coaxial or to XLR? How do audiophiles connect their daps to these dacs or amplifiers with the highest possible sound quality in mind?
 
Jan 14, 2021 at 6:48 PM Post #97 of 124
Hey Jeep, I have another question if you don't mind. What is the best way of connecting a dap with 3.5mm normal headphone output or 4.4mm balanced output to this dap you recommended or the one I wanted to get? I read from some blogs that balanced output always gives the best sound. However these dacs don't have any input I can connect my dap I guess. Is 3.5mm to rca cable balanced? or is there a cable from 4.4mm balanced output to coaxial or to XLR? How do audiophiles connect their daps to these dacs or amplifiers with the highest possible sound quality in mind?
You can't connect a balanced 4.4 to an unbalanced RCA because that would short 2 channels and give you smoke effects and or lightshow instead of the music you are hoping for. Unbalanced has a +signal to common ground. Balanced has a +signal one way and a - signal the other way, meaning you have double the drive power and... here's the smartest part; any external induced noise to the cable will be canceled out. That is particularly usefull for long runs in pro audio and PA. Now if you have stereo the return cable will be - left and - right, but unbalanced are both ground, so normally connected to the chassis to common ground. So you are going to short left and right - signals. So... don't do that!

Any good DAP will have alternate data outputs like optical (rare), coax or most commonly USB that can be used for charging too. The headphone output can be used for signal to an amp but its not ideal because of impedance. It's analog and already amplified by a comparatively cheap opamp. You want to send a pure digital signal, preferably not re/downsampled. Let the dac handle that. s/p-dif is a protocol for optical or coax and has a clear limit (wordlength left right alt, max 192kHz).Usb just sends the raw data files, with checks. You can send PCM or DSD up in the MHz. Thats your best option.

Now theres that i²S, that sends raw data like what is sent to a chip, usually very short runs. Sort of industrial standard. That is what you see more now between high end sources and the dac. Not really DAP territory. So focus on USB-c to -B cable.

PS: Paul McGowan from PS-Audio just posted a video on YouTube a few hours ago about the same question; mixing XLR and RCA cables. It's his daily talk, a basic Q and A and very informative and easy to understand. Go have a look, a good place to learn for 'n00bs'.
 
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Jan 15, 2021 at 5:31 AM Post #98 of 124
You can't connect a balanced 4.4 to an unbalanced RCA because that would short 2 channels and give you smoke effects and or lightshow instead of the music you are hoping for. Unbalanced has a +signal to common ground. Balanced has a +signal one way and a - signal the other way, meaning you have double the drive power and... here's the smartest part; any external induced noise to the cable will be canceled out. That is particularly usefull for long runs in pro audio and PA. Now if you have stereo the return cable will be - left and - right, but unbalanced are both ground, so normally connected to the chassis to common ground. So you are going to short left and right - signals. So... don't do that!

Any good DAP will have alternate data outputs like optical (rare), coax or most commonly USB that can be used for charging too. The headphone output can be used for signal to an amp but its not ideal because of impedance. It's analog and already amplified by a comparatively cheap opamp. You want to send a pure digital signal, preferably not re/downsampled. Let the dac handle that. s/p-dif is a protocol for optical or coax and has a clear limit (wordlength left right alt, max 192kHz).Usb just sends the raw data files, with checks. You can send PCM or DSD up in the MHz. Thats your best option.

Now theres that i²S, that sends raw data like what is sent to a chip, usually very short runs. Sort of industrial standard. That is what you see more now between high end sources and the dac. Not really DAP territory. So focus on USB-c to -B cable.

PS: Paul McGowan from PS-Audio just posted a video on YouTube a few hours ago about the same question; mixing XLR and RCA cables. It's his daily talk, a basic Q and A and very informative and easy to understand. Go have a look, a good place to learn for 'n00bs'.
Thanks Jeep, gonna watch that video now
 
Apr 26, 2021 at 10:33 AM Post #100 of 124
Hello all! I recently received my M400 and was wondering what would cause the display to not have the Hi-Res badge when playing 44.1khz/16 bit media from Tidal/Roon? The MQA is working fine, just wondering why HiRes isn't working.
You will only get the hi-res badge when playing hi-res music from your library in Roon or Tidal, standard 44.1 Flac or ALAC files are not considered hi-res as they are standard lossless files. Only files with a higher bit rate files (eg 96 kHz.) will show as Hi-Res on the mM400. I just checked with mine and that's the case. Your DAC is working fine.
 
May 17, 2021 at 4:49 PM Post #101 of 124
IMG_20210517_154656-01.jpeg



Superb stack!

In the next days I'll write some impressions...
 
May 19, 2021 at 11:10 AM Post #103 of 124
Waiting to read your feedback.
I'm have an Utopia and i'm looking for an upgrade...the SMSL combo is on my list !

First listening impressions


Source: Roon and / or Logitechmediaserver + Squeezelite
Signal Path (for both Roon and LMS): Source files in 24 / 88.2 or 96kHz (mostly) -> 64 / 88.2 (96) -> pre-gain -2dB -> 64 / 176.4 (192) -> Profile EQ for each headphones used -> 32 / 176.4 (192)
Headphones used: Focal Utopia, Audeze Sine, RHA CL2 Planar.

All tests were done with unbalanced cable amd in low-gain. I loaned the 4pin XLR adapter -> 4.4mm and my Hifiman HE560 to a friend of mine, when they come back I will update the impressions using all the headphones in balanced and I'll add the test with the HE560s, certainly the toughest to manage.

Tracks listened to (Artist - Album - Track), mostly contemporary Jazz:
• Danny Keane - Roamin '- Twenty Tonnes of Tension
• Isfar Sarabski - Planet - Planet
• Jaga Jazzist - Pyramid - Spiral Era
• Bill Laurance - Aftersun - A Blaze
• Ibrahim Maalouf - Red & Black Light - Free Spirit
• GoGo Penguin - Live From Studio 2 - Petit_A
• Avishai Cohen - Arvoles - New York 90's
• Daft Punk - Random Access Memories - Motherboard
• Tigran Hamasyan - The Call Within - Vortex
• The Pineapple Thief - Your Wilderness - In Exile
• Mammal Hands - Captured Spirits - Riddle
• Omer Klein - Sleepwalkers - Sleepwalkers
• Snarky Puppy - Immigrance - Chonks

Focal Utopia:
As for the driving power there is obviously no problem at all, Utopias are really easy to drive, but they are extremely demanding regarding the quality of the DAC and amplification.
The low frequencies have a fast and impactful attack without being "boomy", denoting excellent driver control. Even with “long” basses as with a double bass this never covers the other frequencies and the whole texture of the instrument emerges.
The mid frequencies are extremely detailed without ever being dry.
The highs are never harsh but they aren't rolled off, and, like the mids, extremely detailed.
I am having a hard time finding the correct words to describe the tonality of this stack as it is truly neutral, it is not bright, it is not dry, it is not warm, it is not boring nor produces a colorful sound ... It Bring out what is there in the registration without getting in the way of giving its opinion about it. (also because it would be an unsolicited opinion
😃
)

Audeze Sine:
The Sine are pretty hard to drive given their low impedance (17ohm) and not excellent sensitivity. The SMSL combo manages to drive them with absolute authority by keeping the drivers on a leash; even going, for a few seconds, to live concert sound pressures. I did not expect otherwise given the enormous power capable of delivering at low impedances.

Rha CL2:
These magnetoplanar IEMs with not very clean sources buzz which is a pleasure, highlighting the background noise present in the electronics that drive them. I tried to put both the DAC and the AMP at 100% and there was absolute silence.
Since they are not quite easy to drive (15ohm / 89dB), they represent a thought battle for many DAPs resulting dry and without dynamics. As I expected this did not happen, the SMSL stack made the CL2 sing properly. The result is a very dynamic sound, and with the micro and macro dynamics typical of a competently driven planar driver.

As much as the driving ability and the achromatic and hi-fi tonality pleasantly surprised me, the factor that really kept me glued to the headphones for hours and hours was the precision with which the stereo image is drawn, the VERY vast soundstage with a perfect positioning of the instruments and a micro and macro detail taken to the extreme.

Out of pure curiosity I also tried to connect the phone via Bluetooth using the LDAC codec set at the highest quality: 24/96 (990kbps). I have noted with satisfaction that important advances have been made in BT codecs. If, comparing it with the reproduction of a hi-res file from USB, you can notice a certain narrowing of the scene and a minor instrumental separation, with a normal 16/44 I don't feel like putting my hand on fire in saying that there are differences. particularly audible ... I would probably have a hard time distinguishing them.

I'll recap the pros and cons I've noticed so far

PRO:
• R2R volume
• Remote control that works with both DAC and AMP
• Important driving ability, especially at low and medium impedances. A paradise for planars.
• Audio quality in general.
• Great competence in extracting every detail from excellent recordings without ever going to modify them by imposing their own sound signature. BUT [...]

CONS:
• […] Equally great expertise in pulling out the flaws with mediocre recordings. (is it really a cons?)
• No batteries for the remote ... really?
• Slow increase and decrease in volume compared to a normal potentiometer.
• The AMP prefers an input greater than 4V to give its maximum performance
• The not particularly high gain may not be enough for headphones with extreme impedances (600ohm and above)

I will update my listening impressions with the Hifiman and using all in balanced mode soon ...

[UPDATE]

HE560:

I'll be brief, the amp's characteristics are fully reviewed in previous posts. The HE560s are pretty hard to move with only 90dB / mW of sensitivity and a 50 Ohm impedance. Although Roon for upsampling and DSP lowers the level of the song by 5dB in the case of the Hifiman (which is a lot) the amp does not give up and drives the headphones with authority even at important volumes. it's possible that it can also cope with the HE6 but I should find a pair of them to try to be sure.


The difference between balanced and unbalanced in terms of sound quality is zero, the performances are so high already in unbalanced that it would be hard to pretend to hear any difference in balanced. Obviously you have a doubling of the power using the 4 pin XLR connector.
 
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Jul 1, 2021 at 8:14 AM Post #104 of 124
guys... please... just got an M400 and connected it to my SP400

only issue I have is... is there a way to use just one remote for both? (turn ON/OFF both and adjust SP400 volume is all I need)
I tried pressing "C" when M400 only was ON and... now the remote (SP400's one) only works with the DAC :tired_face:
thanks :relaxed:
 
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Jul 1, 2021 at 8:19 AM Post #105 of 124
guys... please... just got an M400 and connected it to my SP400

only issue I have is... is there a way to use just one remote for both? (turn ON/OFF both and adjust SP400 volume is all I need)
I tried pressing "C" when M400 only was ON and... now the remote (SP400's one) only works with the DAC :tired_face:
thanks :relaxed:
Press B and it will switch to the AMP
 
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