[Toom]

Well I use a multiband compressor to "turn down the volume" on selected frequencies "briefly" on all my headphones to deal with sibilance, which I believe is an inevitable part of the signature of a well-tuned pair of headphones or headphones / EQ combo

 
Explain please.

 

[Joe Bloggs]

Google "multiband compressor deess"

 

[Toom]

Google "multiband compressor deess"

 
Oh sure, one of those? Sure, understood. Not really necessary though in my opinion, unless there's something wrong with your headphones.
 
 I dont think that AKG thread guy was talking about applying EQ or DSP, but perhaps he was. Either way, it sounds like 700 quid gets you an IEM thats too bright. 

 

[limpidglitch]

I don't know if bigshot peruses InnerFidelity at any regularity, but the old Gramophone article mentioned in a recent post reminded me of him. And I tend to agree with the main sentiment as well.
 
 
 

 
 
 

  
('tis but a transcription I did)

 

[uchihaitachi]

Summary

Test	Sansa Clip+ - 16 Ohm	Cowon J3 - No Load	Cowon J3 - 16 Ohm (V-Moda Vibe)	Cowon J3 - 32 Ohm (Shure SE530)
Frequency response (from 40 Hz to 15 kHz), dB:	+0.04, -0.06	+0.01, -0.06	+0.22, -3.19	+0.19, -1.66
Noise level, dB (A):	-89.4	-90.6	-90.1	-90.5
Dynamic range, dB (A):	89.3	90.6	90.1	90.5
THD, %:	0.047	0.0035	0.029	0.049
IMD + Noise, %:	0.064	0.0091	0.042	0.109
Stereo crosstalk, dB:	-51.4	-92.0	-56.7	-60.4

 
 
I find that my Cowon J3 sounds, quite unnatural and 'thin' (not expansive) for the lack of a better word. Which of the above components could be an explanation for that?

 

[uchihaitachi]

FYI, I am using a 35ohm IEM....

 

[maverickronin]

  I don't know if bigshot peruses InnerFidelity at any regularity, but the old Gramophone article mentioned in a recent post reminded me of him. And I tend to agree with the main sentiment as well.
 

 
The more things change, the more they stay the same....
 

  I find that my Cowon J3 sounds, quite unnatural and 'thin' (not expansive) for the lack of a better word. Which of the above components could be an explanation for that?

 
What does it sound "thin" in comparison to?  The Clip+?

 

[uchihaitachi]

   
The more things change, the more they stay the same....
 
 
What does it sound "thin" in comparison to?  The Clip+?

It sounds more unnatural. It's quite difficult to describe, and (especially piano) sounds rather artificial. Which of the measured criteria could explain this?

 

[maverickronin]

  It sounds more unnatural. It's quite difficult to describe, and (especially piano) sounds rather artificial. Which of the measured criteria could explain this?

 
We still need to know what other source you're comparing it to.  You can't compare it real life because a recording will never sound the same as real life even if it was played back on perfect (and hence purely theoretical) equipment.

 

[uchihaitachi]

I was comparing it to a odac o2. I also compared it to a ipod line out to o2 and still the same result......

 

[wakibaki]

 

Summary

Test	Sansa Clip+ - 16 Ohm	Cowon J3 - No Load	Cowon J3 - 16 Ohm (V-Moda Vibe)	Cowon J3 - 32 Ohm (Shure SE530)
Frequency response (from 40 Hz to 15 kHz), dB:	+0.04, -0.06	+0.01, -0.06	+0.22, -3.19	+0.19, -1.66
Noise level, dB (A):	-89.4	-90.6	-90.1	-90.5
Dynamic range, dB (A):	89.3	90.6	90.1	90.5
THD, %:	0.047	0.0035	0.029	0.049
IMD + Noise, %:	0.064	0.0091	0.042	0.109
Stereo crosstalk, dB:	-51.4	-92.0	-56.7	-60.4

 
 
I find that my Cowon J3 sounds, quite unnatural and 'thin' (not expansive) for the lack of a better word. Which of the above components could be an explanation for that?

 
I don't like the frequency response. It's 40-15000Hz for a start, when I'd prefer to see 20-20,000. If these are the manufacturers figures, I suspect the flatness is a lot worse for the extended range.
 
With 32 ohms, a -1.66 dB dip is quite noticeable. 0.1 dB is a perceptible difference.
 
I looked up the output impedance, 2 ohms. This is at the very top end of acceptable and values of a fraction of an ohm are achievable. You can see the sensitivity to load in the difference between the loaded and unloaded values, and note how well the Sansa Clip does @ 16 ohms.

 

[uchihaitachi]

   
I don't like the frequency response. It's 40-15000Hz for a start, when I'd prefer to see 20-20,000. If these are the manufacturers figures, I suspect the flatness is a lot worse for the extended range.
 
With 32 ohms, a -1.66 dB dip is quite noticeable. 0.1 dB is a perceptible difference.
 
I looked up the output impedance, 2 ohms. This is at the very top end of acceptable and values of a fraction of an ohm are achievable. You can see the sensitivity to load in the difference between the loaded and unloaded values, and note how well the Sansa Clip does @ 16 ohms.

Would you attribute from the limited data that the 'incomplete' sound that I perceive is due to the bass roll off?

 

[maverickronin]

  I was comparing it to a odac o2. I also compared it to a ipod line out to o2 and still the same result......

 
The O2 is certainly a good reference.  The information is still incomplete but I think wakibaki is on the right track with the output impedance.  If the J3's is 2 ohms that's 4 times the O2's so differences in frequency response related to headphone's impedance curve will be greater with the J3 than the O2.
 
The specifics would depend on the headphones though.  What model are they?

 

[uchihaitachi]

Heir Audio 8A, not sure if this would be of any help.
 
Does high impedance at the source, result in a predictable deviant behaviour for the IEM frequency or, is it erratic?

 

[maverickronin]

  Heir Audio 8A, not sure if this would be of any help.

 
That will do it.  Multi BA IEMs tend to have very complicated impedance curves which can make output impedance issues more noticeable.
 

  Does high impedance at the source, result in a predictable deviant behaviour for the IEM frequency or, is it erratic?

 
It's constant for a specific amount of output impedance and a specific headphone.  I don't have a graph for the 8A but I can show the the one for the Shure SE530 which was tested with the J3 in those results you posted earlier.  Look at pinkish trace in the second graph from the top left.  It shows how impedance (basically resistance in ohms at any particular frequency) changes at different frequencies.  If the impedance curve is perfectly flat then changes in output impedance of the amplifier will not change the frequency response of the headphone.  If it varies, then the output impedance of the amplifier can affect frequency response.
 
Frequencies with a lower impedance will receive less power and will be cut while frequencies with a higher impedance will receive more power and be boosted.  The higher the output impedance of the amplifier, the greater these differences will be.  You can see in the graph that the SE530 has an impedance peak near 1.3khz and a dip around 5khz.  The greater the amp's output impedance the greater the boost at 1.3khz and the greater the cut at 5khz.  Assuming that the 8A has impedance dips in the bass region and/or peaks in the upper mid to treble region then the higher output impedance of the J3 as compared to the O2 would cause a difference in frequency response which would account for you impressions.