Yeah for future transactions I'll be insisting on payment sent as Purchase of Goods. I did a few test transfers before and it seems that if you select Personal > Gift option the associated fees are calculated and the sender is given the option of paying that or forwarding it to the recipient. Selecting Purchase > Goods only charges the sender the amount being sent. In this instance I'm not entirely sure if the recipient is forced to burden the fee. If that's the case I'd just send the fee through in a subsequent payment as Personal > Payment owed.
I like the idea of having a trusted third party hold funds for a buyer until that buyer can confirm receipt of goods. Although it sort of falls apart when sellers send items fraudulently with shipping confirmation and tracking. If the buyer has a grievance because the item received was not as described, it'd be for the third party to determine if the buyer is refunded or if payment is forwarded to the seller. Who would want to assume that responsibility?
There are commercial 'escrow services' which do this job. I used one years ago (1999) and it worked OK.
A couple of cautions, though.
- the fees are quite high
- apparently nowadays there are a lot of bogus 'escrow services' out there that just take the money and run
I wouldn't use an escrow service again. Better to rely on the old-fashioned methods (phone contact, confirmed addresses, good feedback, etc....) IMO.
The practice of charging the buyer 'extra' for sending payment via PayPal seems to be a pretty common practice here.
("Buyer to pay 3% PayPal fees" and the like.)
Linkwitz has the same policy for his speaker plans and parts, I've noticed.
This is specifically 'forbidden' in the PayPal User Agreement. I think that PayPal can refuse protection under the Buyer/Seller protection plan if you charge the fees to the buyer. Do you really want to do this to save yourself $10?
https://cms.paypal.com/ca/cgi-bin/?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=ua/UserAgreement_full#4.%20Receiving%20Money.
Quote: 4.5 No Surcharges. You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services, as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge for non-PayPal transactions.
I'm no fan of PayPal and the way it does business, and I'm pretty sure they will jump at any excuse to avoid protecting buyers/sellers. Having the buyer pay the fees would be just the kind of thing that Paypal would pay attention to, if there was a dispute.
Just FYI
John
PS- When I was doing a search on this topic, I noticed a lot of forums similar to this (ie buy/sell) specifically forbid any mention of extra charges for PayPal in their ads. Perhaps something that the owners/moderators here should consider.........
PS- When I was doing a search on this topic, I noticed a lot of forums similar to this (ie buy/sell) specifically forbid any mention of extra charges for PayPal in their ads. Perhaps something that the owners/moderators here should consider.........
Agreed. Although my qualm with what's commonly practiced here isn't to do with the buyer having to cover the fee as such. It's the added and unnecessary risk for the buyer when transactions aren't recorded as payment of goods.
Although most of the conversation here has focused on the 'buyer vulnerability' issue (e.g. paying in advance and not receiving the item), the seller is also vulnerable. So both parties should play within the rules.
The eBay/PayPal system (same company) is heavily slanted toward the buyer. eBay sellers complain about this incessantly.
Search on 'PayPal chargeback' for more info.
Also noteworthy is the fact that most of the thread has dealt with theoretical/hypothetical scenarios, not real cases of cheating. Most people are honest. That said, I don't think it's a good idea to tempt people by being foolish, either.
people are paying or asking to be paid as a gift because it avoids paypal fees which can be quite high.
people are not asking you to pay extra when they say "buyer pays 3% for pay pal".. they are asking you to pay the fee that paypal charges.. much like someone would ask you to pay the shipping cost the post office charges
people are not asking you to pay extra when they say "buyer pays 3% for pay pal".. they are asking you to pay the fee that paypal charges.. much like someone would ask you to pay the shipping cost the post office charges
Uh- it's not the same as shipping charges at all. The seller is getting the benefit of instant payment via Paypal but refusing to follow the business practices that were agreed when the seller initially set up his PayPal account.... you know, that box with all the text that wasn't read before he pushed the 'I Agree' button....
Buyers should all report sellers who charge the PayPal fees to the buyer - once a bunch of seller accounts were terminated, this practice would stop.
people are not asking you to pay extra when they say "buyer pays 3% for pay pal".. they are asking you to pay the fee that paypal charges.. much like someone would ask you to pay the shipping cost the post office charges
Uh- it's not the same as shipping charges at all. The seller is getting the benefit of instant payment via Paypal but refusing to follow the business practices that were agreed when the seller initially set up his PayPal account.... you know, that box with all the text that wasn't read before he pushed the 'I Agree' button....
Buyers should all report sellers who charge the PayPal fees to the buyer - once a bunch of seller accounts were terminated, this practice would stop.
Heck I got plenty of feedback here and probably was one of the earliest member on this site. Not once, I asked the buyer to ship before paid in full. One time a junior member asked me to ship before paid in full, I simply denied dealing with him. Internet sales are always risky, so I always paid with Paypal (creditcard) in case of disputes. When I sell expensive items, I always wait until the fund is cleared before shipping out the product unless I know that person. There are many cases when member with extensive feedbacks turns bad. You can never tell.
I also document the condition of the package before & during the shipping process in case the item is lost and stolen. One time, the item got stolen out of the package. Luckily I have pictures document the shipment process so USPS refunded me the money. What I hate the most is buying items from seller who doesn't know how to pack worth a crap. The claim procedure always take too long.
Well ya i'd have to say it's probably not a good idea. As others have mentioned with credit card+paypal protection, talking with the person, closely looking at pics and generally just getting a good feel for the other person, that should be enough for the buyer. I do agree certainly extra post count and long time membership status helps make people feel more comfortable but in the end we've all seen cases where guys with long post counts can still turn bad. Just make sure you DON'T pay via gift option or something like WU and in most cases if you've checked them out it should turn out good
Plus one other thing i think could be a problem especially with audio gear is what if the buyer starts demoing the item and then decides it's not for him or he made a mistake. That could really put the seller in a bad spot. Now i think as OP mentioned most trusted guys here wouldn't do that but on other hand i've personally had some ppl who i thought could be trusted or long time "online friends" turn rip offs over a couple hundred dollars just like that
Paypal is extremely biased towards the buyer.
Once I had a package that was stuck in customs, the buyer started a chargeback with his credit card rather than through paypal, which paypal passed along. It was eventually delivered, and the buyer even told paypal it was delivered, but because of the credit card chargeback, paypal would not return the money despite confirming delivery. And of course the buyer never replied again about reversing the chargeback through his credit card.
I wouldn't be surprised if there were tons of people that game the system like this. It is definitely not a sellers market.
Paypal is all about buyer with very littler seller protection. That's one of the reason I hate selling stuffs oversea, b/c most international deals are not eligible for seller protection.
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