[rds]

I realize going into this will be very controversial, but I think it needs to be discussed.
The hype surrounding certain brands of amps is so extreme and often unjustified by the actual product. Browsing the amp forum I see members come up again and again extolling the same products and often an entire line of products.
Being someone with a healthy cynicism I'm not convinced these are just ultra enthusiastic customers, and even if they are I find the behavior unhelpful at best.
I see new members post asking for some suggestions on amps only to be hit with the hype machine like they just walked into the county fair arcade.
I don't know what can be done about his, but I think it needs be discussed.

 

[mark10001]

I think this is normal for people to promote what they like. If they really like it and think it is the best why not tell others. If you ask car enthusiasts what motor oil they use for example they will be all over a certain brand they trust and use.

 

[BIG POPPA]

This should be getting good anytime now.........

 

[rds]

That is true, but as point of direct comparison see the headphone forum. People talk about the headphones they like, and even rant about them, but the atmosphere is very different. I can believe that is genuine. I don't feel like I'm being sold or force fed a product. Here I do.
Is it coincidence that the amps so vigorously promoted here are the same ones that desperately need such promotion to be successful? I think it's a little naive to think this is all legit.

 

[Edwood]

I have to confess, I am a shill for Team Pretzel.

And just say "NO!" to Turkish Ouzo.

 

[Drag0n]

I think its fine to say you like a product as long as people know where youre coming from, like if youve only heard 2 amps, etc.
Most people get excited about their new toy and want to find someone else to like it also.
Whats bad is a totally new person to headphones, and he gets one decent set, maybe like Grado SR60's, and tells other new people that theyre the best.
It may be the best he has ever heard, coming from stock buds and cheap headphones from a variety store, and granted, SR60's do sound good enough for some people to be happy and walk away from this place, but theyre not the best to most people that have heard a wide range of whats out there above its price range.
Just be honest with your experiance so people know what level of advice theyre recieving.

 

[rei_yano]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG POPPA /img/forum/go_quote.gif This should be getting good anytime now.........

love how fast you cuaght that! nothin but skills.

 

[LostOne.TR]

I get what you mean. Kinda feel the same, but meh. Maybe we should just have a note reminding members YMMV & to be aware that certain users tend to support certain products whatever their reasons may be-- without naming.

 

[Navyblue]

I see your concern, but I don't think anything can be done about it.

Most if not all of us have not heard all the amps in the market, if people can't recommend what they have personally heard or liked, then what else can they recommend? After all opinions are subjective, and I don't think there can be an objective description as far as sound quality goes. We all read all sort of things in the net, and readers have to to sort it out ourselves.

People say Beta 22 is great, there are those who say that RSA Predator is great, there are also others that say CMoy is great. But are they equally great?

But for the rest of us can we say that they are not great?

What I have problem with is people who make unsubstantiated claim by propagating what they have read on the net, while at the same time having an unusually faulty belief system.

 

[TheMarchingMule]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LostOne.TR /img/forum/go_quote.gif I get what you mean. Kinda feel the same, but meh. Maybe we should just have a note reminding members YMMV & to be aware that certain users tend to support certain products whatever their reasons may be-- without naming.

Yup, it kind of gets pretty obvious what members like to promote what brands, esp. in the amp forums.

 

[The Pieman]

To an extent this site promotes the shill factor. One does not want to be too critical of products from certain Members of the Trade who sponsor the site. Some posts have been known to disappear if criticising MoTs products in the wrong fashion. This may or may not allow for open honest discussion.

I actually don't know if it is shilling or rather fanboyism, but either way does not help open discussion or being able to convey other opinions. Some of it is just straight enthusiasm and is usually very obvious.

This is not limited to the amp sub-forum either.

Also beware of FOTM!

cheers
Simon

 

[bada bing]

"Shill" implies some sort of quid pro quo, some payback. I don't think that is happening, or even necessary. I think the correct term is "Fanboy". Some brands do seem to enjoy a free army of fanboys, or at least a commited few. Fanboyism does get pretty overboard here. I think it is driven by partly by random chance, and partly by brand loyalty from customer service or product appearance, rather than performance. One man's fanboy is another's truth sleuth.

I don't believe there is an intentional effort to manipulate product preferences driven by a profit motive of the posters. At least I sure hope not. I do know that it isn't hard to spot the more objective posters verses the fanboys/shills.

 

[QQQ]

Somehow i'm agree with the OP this time.

 

[Edwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bada bing /img/forum/go_quote.gif "Shill" implies some sort of quid pro quo, some payback. I don't think that is happening, or even necessary. I think the correct term is "Fanboy". Some brands do seem to enjoy a free army of fanboys, or at least a commited few. Fanboyism does get pretty overboard here. I think it is driven by partly by random chance, and partly by brand loyalty from customer service or product appearance, rather than performance. One man's fanboy is another's truth sleuth.

QFT.

I guess I am really just a Pretzel Fanboy, then.

 

[RedSky0]

I haven't been on this forum for very long but would I be right in assuming more people have a collection of headphones as opposed to more than one amp/DAC? In that sense you'd expect some people to promote the only amplifier they have extended personal experience with, because well if they're happy with it then that's a very valid (but perhaps not overly valuable) opinion in itself, even if it's not in comparison to any other product.

Frankly, I think it's the onus of whoever's taking on opinions/requesting help to critically evaluate someone's view and to seek or search for alternate points of view. If somebody says X is a good choice and don't provide any justification, then that opinion may be worth exploring but by itself should not be perceieved as credulous anyway. Hell it's not just shills you should be concerned about, it's the people who perpetuate hearsay and don't acknowledge it for what it is and the ones who get sucked into FOTMishness.

Besides I'd think shills, specifically those who are just here to promote a particular brand would be pretty easy to pick out if you spend considerable time on this forum.