[kukkurovaca]

Hi Shanling,

I'm confused by what you guys are describing as 'true line out' vs 'not true line out'. So questions:

Can the M3s be connected to another amp (traditional line out)? Can the M3s be connected to another dac/amp (digital line out)?

Thanks!

You can definitely connect the M3s to an amp, it's just that you won't be able to bypass the M3s's own amp section. I don't think this is a big problem in practice -- or at least, I've been pleased with using my M3s and ALO CDM. (I usually set the volume on the M3s to about 70 when using balanced.)

I don't think there are many options on the market for DAPs with "true" balanced line out. One of the amp modules for the DX200 has one but the cost of that plus the DX200 itself is steep. Dedicated SE line out is more common, usually with a separate dedicated line-out jack.

 

[jmac1516]

You can definitely connect the M3s to an amp, it's just that you won't be able to bypass the M3s's own amp section. I don't think this is a big problem in practice -- or at least, I've been pleased with using my M3s and ALO CDM. (I usually set the volume on the M3s to about 70 when using balanced.)

I don't think there are many options on the market for DAPs with "true" balanced line out. One of the amp modules for the DX200 has one but the cost of that plus the DX200 itself is steep. Dedicated SE line out is more common, usually with a separate dedicated line-out jack.

Thanks for your insights.

Does this mean there is no digital line out so the M3s cannot be used as a transport to another dac/amp set up?

Also, what about connecting to a car stereo via line out? Should that work?

 

[Pete7874]

Does this mean there is no digital line out so the M3s cannot be used as a transport to another dac/amp set up?

From the description on Shanling's website:
"M3s can be connected to other DACs over USB and can serve as a pure digital transport including full support for native DSD files"

Also, what about connecting to a car stereo via line out? Should that work?

I guess it depends on what sort of input your car stereo is expecting, but in most cases you should be able to just use the 3.5mm headphone output for this.

 

[DBaldock9]

I received a text from DHL, indicating that they were making a delivery today - and I think the M3s and case are the only items I've ordered that were being shipped via DHL.

Looking forward to checking it out, once I've topped up the battery charge.

 

[Shanling]

Hi Shanling,

I'm confused by what you guys are describing as 'true line out' vs 'not true line out'. So questions:

Can the M3s be connected to another amp (traditional line out)? Can the M3s be connected to another dac/amp (digital line out)?

Does this mean there is no digital line out so the M3s cannot be used as a transport to another dac/amp set up?

Also, what about connecting to a car stereo via line out? Should that work?

M3s has line out mode in settings, that sets up device into full volume and can be easily used with either portable amp, desktop amp or car stereo aux in as you wish.

M3s can be used as digital transport, what you call "digital lineout". Just conenct it over USB OTG cable(like our L2 cable) to any DAC with USB input and it should work smoothly.


True line out or not true line out is more audiophile question. Some devices with "true lineout" uses separate circuit, that is using different analog stage for output. In Shanling players both headphone out and line out mode is using same analog stage.

 

[Dobrescu George]

M3s has line out mode in settings, that sets up device into full volume and can be easily used with either portable amp, desktop amp or car stereo aux in as you wish.

M3s can be used as digital transport, what you call "digital lineout". Just conenct it over USB OTG cable(like our L2 cable) to any DAC with USB input and it should work smoothly.


True line out or not true line out is more audiophile question. Some devices with "true lineout" uses separate circuit, that is using different analog stage for output. In Shanling players both headphone out and line out mode is using same analog stage.

That's interesting. I will test if this has any impact on the sound when I get to test it.

My understanding was that typical Line Out circuits would usually have the voltage amplification stage, but not the actual power amplification, so it provides a cleaner signal, along with a theoretically lower distortion. The main feature I found so far was that this concept provides longer battery life, at least

I have one or two more devices that have this type of Line Out, but I haven't tested them yet in this mode, so now I'm curious

 

[superuser1]

As per my limited knowledge i reckon this scenario would be called double amping by some people. What needs to be seen is whether this :double amping" colours the sound to your liking or not.

 

[Dobrescu George]

As per my limited knowledge i reckon this scenario would be called double amping by some people. What needs to be seen is whether this :double amping" colours the sound to your liking or not.

Actually, the problem was not with coloring, which will be subjective, but with induced THD or distortions

In theory, double amping increases distortion.

Now, I've been using iDSD from its headphone output with my speakers with excellent results, so I'm not so sure I can hear that said distortion, and I actually like it better that way than from its RCA outpuits due to its 3D headphone thingy, so I don't think double amping adds that much distortion, at least on some devices.

 

[superuser1]

Actually, the problem was not with coloring, which will be subjective, but with induced THD or distortions

In theory, double amping increases distortion.

Now, I've been using iDSD from its headphone output with my speakers with excellent results, so I'm not so sure I can hear that said distortion, and I actually like it better that way than from its RCA outputs due to its 3D headphone thingy, so I don't think double amping adds that much distortion, at least on some devices.

You are right. Distortion is the main thing.
When i tried to use Sony A35 HP out to the BL it sounded bad for a lack of any other term. I think in certain instances the pairing becomes unusable for some.

 

[silverfishla]

It’s kind of a bummer. Thing is, it’s not just about distortion. It’s also many other things that interfere with the chain of sound. Mostly, in my opinion, the dap amps strong signature on top (probably) another strong sound signature (which is your headphone amp, home amp, car stereo, etc). It’s not just like having some EQ’d version of a Line Out, it’s more like adding a DSP that adds spacial cues and flavoring on top of what the receiving amp is trying to do.

 

[foreverzer0]

It’s kind of a bummer. Thing is, it’s not just about distortion. It’s also many other things that interfere with the chain of sound. Mostly, in my opinion, the dap amps strong signature on top (probably) another strong sound signature (which is your headphone amp, home amp, car stereo, etc). It’s not just like having some EQ’d version of a Line Out, it’s more like adding a DSP that adds spacial cues and flavoring on top of what the receiving amp is trying to do.

Aren't line outs just buffered by opamps (or in some cases jfets) just like this dap? I think as long as the receiving amp isn't overdriven by the dap's output voltage it should be transparent enough (otherwise you'd get a dedicated dac, since dap is it's main use-case). The mojo did well in providing which levels (of output) equated to which voltage and defaulted to 3V in line-out "mode" (but adjustable). Maybe if @Shanling measured the 20/40/60/80 attenuator steps and unity gain (at 100) approximate voltage and provided that in the documentation (or on this forum first page, since only hardcore folks like us would care) it would be easier.

 

[kukkurovaca]

Aren't line outs just buffered by opamps (or in some cases jfets) just like this dap? I think as long as the receiving amp isn't overdriven by the dap's output voltage it should be transparent enough (otherwise you'd get a dedicated dac, since dap is it's main use-case). The mojo did well in providing which levels (of output) equated to which voltage and defaulted to 3V in line-out "mode" (but adjustable). Maybe if @Shanling measured the 20/40/60/80 attenuator steps and unity gain (at 100) approximate voltage and provided that in the documentation (or on this forum first page, since only hardcore folks like us would care) it would be easier.

That would be nice. I found experimentally that around 70 seems to work well with my CDM when using balanced, but it would be nice to have a reference point.

 

[DBaldock9]

The DHL delivery was my new M3s and case.

Once I moved the memory card from my M2s, I set the Digital Filter to Short Delay Slow (same setting I use on my Cayin N3), then connected my new VE Monk IEMs (Biggie) to the Balanced output, and I'm enjoying some 24-Bit / 96-KHz FLAC files.

 

[foreverzer0]

That would be nice. I found experimentally that around 70 seems to work well with my CDM when using balanced, but it would be nice to have a reference point.

You'd also need to know what voltage ranges the CDM can handle before clipping. For example, my desktop balanced amp can accept up to 7v without issues.

 

[hung031086]

The DHL delivery was my new M3s and case.

Once I moved the memory card from my M2s, I set the Digital Filter to Short Delay Slow (same setting I use on my Cayin N3), then connected my new VE Monk IEMs (Biggie) to the Balanced output, and I'm enjoying some 24-Bit / 96-KHz FLAC files.

How does your biggie pair with m3s ?