Ya it's too bad these are Fiio DAPs.. Shanling just sounds better.
Shanling M3 Plus - New Midrange Android Portable Player at $469
- Thread starter Shanling
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I am willing to bet that you never heard a Shanling dap
M21
M21 At that price will not use the Silmic Elna II capacitors and the Panasonic thin film stuff.. That's how they get the Shanling sound, and they are relatively expensive parts. There are many many ways to program the FPGA as well, and the chips have many options.. And then there is the Firmware.. So it's not automatic that the same chips will give you a very similar sound.
fish1050
Headphoneus Supremus
Fair enough, but we don't have all the specifics yet on the internal components in the M21, just the chips and SOC basically. The question is will it sound that much different (not necessarily better) to warrant sacrificing all the stuff that is better on the M21 for a much lower price? Also, the M21 will offer Global PEQ so you will be able to optimize your headphones with the M21. Something the M3 Plus does not offer and the Fiio DAP's also offer BASS and Treble adjustments to tweak the sound if needed. Another consideration for me is that Fiio DAP's are readily available in Canada and Shanling DAP's aren't so I should be able to demo the M21 before I buy it and I won't have to import it. With all the tariff nonsense going on right now that is a major plus in my book.
I had a chance to demo the JM21 and the Shanling M1 Plus. Granted they are different DAP's but arguably the M1 Plus has better components and I heard very little difference between them. I am a firm believer that headphones make a much bigger difference in what you hear vs how DAP's are tuned. Being able to PEQ my headphones with the M21 gives me alot more flexibility in what I can hear vs the M3 Plus. But of course this is all speculation at this point as we can only go on what is paper so to speak. The truth will reveal itself once both models are available for review and hopefully demo.
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Vitor Valeri
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According to @seanwee , the FiiO M15S is better than the Shanling M6 Ultra. In the end, there is no general rule that a FiiO DAP will be better than a Shanling DAP and vice versa. You have to try it to find out.
I just don't like the relatively clinical sound of the Fiio DAPs, it's not organic or natural to my ear. It's also too revealing for the varied file quality in my collection, whereas the Shanling present all my music nicely, with rich tonality and timbre. Some won't like it, they will say it's 'colored', and it is, but so is the original recording, if you want to hear what that actually sounded like, you need the same gear as the recording studio that produced it.
Vitor Valeri
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In short: there is no better or worse, there is your personal taste.
There's nothing wrong with liking a more colorful sound rather than something that tends towards neutral. So much so that there are DAPs with vacuum tubes, such as the Cayin.
I think it would have been better if you had explained these positions right from the start instead of talking about better or worse.
No offense, but what is the big 'innovation' with the Fiio? I don't see how they are very different at all.
Vitor Valeri
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FiiO has done something that I haven't seen in many years, compact and lightweight DAPs. What I hated the most was having to carry bricks in my pockets weighing 300g or more. Also, if you compare the fluidity of DAPs with Android, FiiO's have fared better due to the optimization that the manufacturer has made to the operating system.
The FiiO M21 (193g) is lighter than the Shanling M3 Plus (205g). For comparison, the Sony NW-ZX707 (227g) weighs a little more than both, but has a construction, in my opinion, much better thought out in terms of ergonomics and physical buttons. The sound of the ZX707, for those who like something "warmer", should please a lot.
fish1050
Headphoneus Supremus
Fiio is offering desktop mode in the M21, a feature that is found in the much more expensive M23. Fiio is also adding a third opamp to the M21 for a different amplifier configuration.
the upcoming M27 will offer the trifecta, desktop mode, user replaceable battery and dual microsd card slots. Other manufacturers may offer one of these features but not all 3. To this point Shanling offers none of these features on their DAP's, just the same old configurations with different chips substituted.
fish1050
Headphoneus Supremus
Actually I owned an M0 and a Q1 and demoed the M3 Ultra and M1 Plus. I have always thought that Shanling made very good sounding DAP's and products in general. I have also demoed some of their desktop gear as well.
However the software and missing features have always let me down. I just don't believe it will sound that much different (again not necessarily better) than the M21 to justify the higher price, lower specs and missing features I will get in the M21. As always, headphones will make the biggest difference in what you hear so ultimately it will depend how the M21 pairs with my headphones. Also with Global PEQ you can tune the headphones as well. I should be able to demo an M21, not likely the case with the M3 Plus.
So the argument for the M3 Plus over the M21 are the Elna Silmic capacitors. In the quantities Shanling is buying them they might cost $0.50 a piece. How do some $0.50 capacitors equate to a $169.00 price difference? When you factor in the larger battery, better SOC, and higher resolution screen in the M21 with same DAC and amp chip configurations in both I would argue the M21 should be the more expensive DAP.
Edit: what we are seeing with Fiio and Shanling are two different sales philosophy's
Fiio is following a low profit margin, high volume sales approach, basically keep the price as low as possible and sell a ton of units.
Shanling is following the higher profit margin, lower sales volume approach, keep the price higher, make more profit per unit, ultimately sell fewer units (the safer approach). For this to work they are counting on their reputation for making great sounding DAP's to push sales. The limitation with this approach is the DAP needs to be nearly perfect to justify the higher price. Shanling DAP's by virtue of their weak software and missing some fairly standard features like gapless playback are not. Now you have people like myself who really like how Shanling DAP's sound but are unwilling to overlook the shortcomings in favor of choosing a cheaper DAP like the M21.
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zeissiez
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Would pick the M3 Plus over the M21, if M3 Plus sticks to its full bodied and natural sound signature. Fiio already said the M21 would be having a “brighter leaning” sound signature, which is quite the opposite of Shanling’s house sound. Of course if you have IEMs with dull treble, the M21 could be a better match.
fish1050
Headphoneus Supremus
"brighter leaning" is a very vague statement, we won't know ultimately how they sound until both are available for review. As always the headphones will be a major factor in what you hear. As I have stated previously you will need to decide if the differences in sound signature are enough to justify the higher price and missing features in the M3 Plus. A vague statement like "brighter leaning" alone won't tip the scales for me in favor of the M3 Plus given all the other factors there are to consider.
The Fiio DAP's offer a basic Treble and Bass adjustment and Global PEQ allowing you to tweak what you hear. For me that is a plus as you can adjust the tuning to better match different headphones. Something else the M3 Plus lacks.
Edit: here is a real world comparison we can make now. HifiGo has the Shanling M3 Plus listed at $646.89 CAN, the M21 on HifiGo is $413.78 CAN. That is a price difference of $233.11 not including duties and fees. With duties and fees the price difference is $258.99.
If I play it safe and order the M21 from Fiio's alixpress store the price is $426.99 CAN the difference is $219.99 CAN, with duties and fees the difference is is $244.31. When you look at the real world price difference it is so much harder to justify the M3 Plus over the M21 at least for Canadians like me. For that price difference the M3 Plus better sound noticeably better than the M21 as it can't compete with the M21 on most specs and features. Now do the same math for someone living in the US and it would give you a heart attack.
I could buy the M21 and a Hiby R1 or even an R3 II 2025 for the cost of an M3 Plus and have both an android and non-android DAP if I wanted to go that route.
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ToneDeafMonk
Previously known as TheDeafMonk
Sounds like PEQ is finally coming
No way the Elna capacitors are 50 cents, they will be about 3 dollars at volume, it's the ones with the gold printing, not the black and white ones, and the thin film Panasonic stuff is expensive as well. I understand your points, but here it is.. I don't EQ. I change IEMs instead. If I start eq-ing, I never stop and it's never right. Shanling, if it's the right one, already sounds perfect for my tastes. I don't need all the other stuff which takes away my focus from the music. I use the Hiby music player, the sound field dsp, and a slight tweak to the MSEB, the stock 'analog' setting, and I leave it alone. I am not sure I would like the new m3 plus as much as m6 ultra or even m3 ultra.. I think IBasso dx180 would make more sense if I wanted to go in that direction, and two screws to replace the battery.. We each listen in different ways.. BTW, the extra opamp on the fiio is for the 3.5mm port, the two nice ones are for the balanced output.
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