[tkteo]

   
I predict that iRiver's next AK DAP will incorporate FPGA technology (much like Soundaware's Esther DAP already does). iRiver know that a certain tiny DAC-Amp, based upon FPGA technology, has been extremely successful, in recent months, even in the very TOTL of the portable audio sector (and at a price iRiver would probably have charged around 8x as much for, had they been marketing it) so they'll doubtless feel compelled to try to grab some of that market share.
 
And, looking at Soundaware's Esther DAP, it is interesting to note that they offer 2 very different sound characteristics, implemented (iirc) mostly in the FPGA code - I can therefore forsee iRiver rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of being able to make incremental changes in FPGA code, along with a few very minor hardware components, to create a whole string of only-slightly-different DAP models, spread 6 months or so apart, to keep the compulsive upgraders paying through the nose, ad nauseam.
.

 
Much respect to you Mython for... shall we say... calling it as it is.
 
Perhaps Audiolab should get into the DAP business cos their M-DAC series offers choices of digital filters additionally programmed to support the DAC chip used.
 
Or, gosh, a iRiver + Audiolab collab. LOL

 

[Mython]

The irony, though, if AK do go the FPGA route, is that it will make the price disparity between the current most-accomplished FPGA-based pocket device (albeit not a DAP), and AKs pricing, all the more apparent.
 
Interesting times...

 

[tkteo]

  The irony, though, if AK do go the FPGA route, is that it will make the price disparity between the current most-accomplished FPGA-based pocket device (albeit not a DAP), and AKs pricing, all the more apparent.
 
Interesting times...

For the price of an AK380, one could buy the M***, the H***, *and* some other DAP with dual card slots, AND have money left over for the two cards.

 

[Dillan]

For the price of an AK380, one could buy the M***, the H***, *and* some other DAP with dual card slots, AND have money left over for the two cards.

Yea that's my whole issue with it. For 4 grand I can get twice the performance and features with something else like the ifi idsd and a portable class A amp. I know it's a great little device but it just seems like highway robery

 

[proedros]

people with too much money to burn , get mentally manipulated by a very smart company who knows that 

no need to dig into too much analysis , it's clear as water
 
cheers

[ i could also ask 'why there are people paying 1000 dollars to get a 'noble'/'luxury' artwork for their CIEMs- but the answer is again the same like my 1st phrase ]

 

[corius]

Have you heard the expression "Live and Let Live"?
 
It's starting to sound a bit desperate that the same two or three posters continue to disparage A&K and their customers. OK, you loathe the company and pity the customers.
 
Why not just move on, confident in your superiority, and I'll continue to listen to my music in blissful ignorance of my stupidity

 

[Mython]

  Have you heard the expression "Live and Let Live"?
 
It's starting to sound a bit desperate that the same two or three posters continue to disparage A&K and their customers. OK, you loathe the company and pity the customers.
 
Why not just move on, confident in your superiority, and I'll continue to listen to my music in blissful ignorance of my stupidity

 
 
Your point is valid, but, at the same time, everyone is entitled to express their viewpoint, on all sides.
 
FTR, my remarks, although discussing some AK customers, were actually aimed more at deconstructing how calculated iRiver are, towards customers, in their marketing tactics, rather than willfully-directing disparagement towards customers themselves (though I concede that it might not appear that way). I realise it was also necessary to make a bit of a pompous ass of myself, in order to do so, but I can live with that.
I honestly have nothing personally against AK customers; it's just that in order to illustrate iRiver's marketing technique, some uncomfortable aspects of (some) customers' behaviour are inevitably described.
 
 
I also understand your objection to some people (including myself) being critical of iRiver (and I'm saying this to you cordially, without any negative feeling), but if iRiver continue to behave in the way they do, is it really fair to expect people to simply cease to criticise said behaviour, and just shut-up and accept the behaviour? Live & Let Live is a very respectable dictum to live by, and I follow it, in many areas of life, but I don't feel it applies to (what I personally view as) seemingly-exploitative behaviour, whether it be by an individual or a company, etc.
 
Again, I assure you I am saying this entirely cordially, but, at the same time as you find it tiresome to read repeated criticism of iRiver (though no-one is forcing you to read said criticism), I, for my part, find it interesting that many AK customers object more to people criticising iRiver than they object to iRiver's business ethics or poor customer service. It's almost reminscent of Stockholm Syndrome.
 
The OP did ask a legitimate (albeit uncomfortable) question, which drew the attention of some critics and also the attention of some customers who are tired of reading said criticism. Such is life

 

 

[astroid]

Astell and Kern can charge whatever they like, full stop. I baulk at the cost of their TOTL players as well but they have the right to put that value on them if they want.
I own the Jr and have heard most of the players, i will be getting the AK300 next as i liked the 4490 sound on the 380 and i hope to get a taste of that at a much lower price.
I dont get those who are on headfi complaining about cost, this is hifi, its been like this forever. If you dont agree with the price dont buy it, simples.

 

[HiFiGuy528]

Once your ears get used to the sound of AK380, everything else sound mid-fi.
 
Lamborghini Centenario is nearly 2 million dollars, but it's less than a second faster than the 1/4 mill Aventador. 

 

[jmills8]

Once your ears GETS USED to the 240 it gets bored and desires more, something to remove boredom, something new, hence 240ss then 380 the 380cu then another then another. Just cause it costs a lot doesnt make it hifi to every style of music or ear.

 

[MH01]

Once your ears get used to the sound of AK380, everything else sound mid-fi.

Lamborghini Centenario is nearly 2 million dollars, but it's less than a second faster than the 1/4 mill Aventador. 

And a Toyota will get you to the same location, in more comfort car analogies hardly work when it comes do electronics or computers.

It's the fans that like to think they own the Lamborghini of electronics .....

A better analogy is, would Lamborghini fans and owners complain when each new model of car , nearly doubled in cost each year, and Lamborghini introduced models at will..

If Lamborghini did that , I would be very unimpressed , as a long term owner.

 

[Mython]

 

Once your ears get used to the sound of AK380, everything else sound mid-fi.

Lamborghini Centenario is nearly 2 million dollars, but it's less than a second faster than the 1/4 mill Aventador. 

And a Toyota will get you to the same location, in more comfort

car analogies hardly work when it comes do electronics or computers.

It's the fans that like to think they own the Lamborghini of electronics .....

A better analogy is, would Lamborghini fans and owners complain when each new model of car , nearly doubled in cost each year, and Lamborghini introduced models at will..

If Lamborghini did that , I would be very unimpressed , as a long term owner.

 
 
Funnily-enough, there's a well-known blogger on youtube complaining of precisely that kind of behaviour, by McLaren:  https://youtu.be/zFvj6g5IR5U?t=16s
 
Ironically, he did later buy a 675 LT https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCuqdzVrYyc

 

[Peter Hyatt]

This is one of the most fascinating posts I have read here!
 
1.  The original poster's question had nothing to do with 'what people are willing to pay.'  He was looking for guidance from the reference point of other products.  Answering his question, for example, as I believe he intended it, I have considered that the Chord Mojo may be of equal to, or greater value than some DACs that sell for more than 10K.
 
 I believe this was the intent of his question:  what has driven the price up ​in areas of interest to us rather than just supply and demand.  
 
2.  I love AK products.  
 
3. As a fan of Astell & Kern,  I also agree with Mython's description of the psychology behind their advertising and our reaction to it.  I am aware of it, and its impact, even as a customer of theirs.  I have talked about what it has caused me to think and to desire.  It helps to communicate to others as we think things through.  Even the defensive responses his post drew from some of us affirms this.  
 
I've noted that the Beyerdynamic AK T8 ie (which I think is fabulous) is $990 but the same product, with the iRiver name, is $1400 on Amazon and elsewhere.  It could be the sellers, or...
 
When I buy something I want others to like it.  Why?  It is a great question to ask self.  Why should I care if everyone hates it, while I love it?  Yet, I do.  Hmm.  Perhaps getting my head x rayed would help?  At least it might explain some of my taste in music!  
 
To Mython and Dillan:  Thanks! 
 
This is a fascinating thread.  

 

[Dillan]

Thanks Peter - PM sent your way.
 
I just think people need to stop beating around the bush and really challenge these product makers to give us what they're charging. I think it is sad that our saying here is "sorry about your wallet". I want to get the performance that I pay for, not mindlessly spend money.
 
If these manufacturers want to charge an arm and a leg then I better at least be given something worthwhile.
 
Tyll from innerfidelity called out Audeze in his review of the LCD-4 after they doubled the price of their flagship without the performance to match. We all need to start following in his footsteps with that or these brands are just going to push us around, because we are willing to pay for it.

 

[corius]

Just got an AK320 yesterday. Lovely piece of equipment, sounds as good to me as my Mojo+AK100+Moon cable. But, much better UI, more compact, better syncing, fast library update and a really great screen.
 
Used to use an iPhone with Mojo, but kept tripping up on the cables and being harassed by RF every time my wife texted me to ask what I was spending my money on.
 
For me the AK320 is great value for money, sorry if it's too expensive for you!
 
However..the AK380.. what a terrible waste of money, how dare anybody buy that!!! It's far too expensive and I'm going to buy a first class air ticket to complain to AK in person.