[Danneq]

Well, those of use who have been here for a few years remember the discussions when the first Hifiman DAPs were released and some made a big point of the fact that something cheap like Sansa Clip did better in measurements than a $600 DAP

I remember defending my old Kenwood HD20GA7 which sounded great. However old Kenwood HDD DAPs performed awful in for example RMAA tests.

So it comes to what you are willing to pay. I recently bought a pair of earbuds from a small Indonesian maker for $280. That probably sounds like a lot for a pair of earbuds. But I love 'em...

 

[StanD]

IMO, nothing that terrible was said in this thread and if one cannot handle other people's opinions then the Internet can be a painful experience. Perhaps this thread can get back on topic.

 

[StanD]

Well, those of use who have been here for a few years remember the discussions when the first Hifiman DAPs were released and some made a big point of the fact that something cheap like Sansa Clip did better in measurements than a $600 DAP

I remember defending my old Kenwood HD20GA7 which sounded great. However old Kenwood HDD DAPs performed awful in for example RMAA tests.

So it comes to what you are willing to pay. I recently bought a pair of earbuds from a small Indonesian maker for $280. That probably sounds like a lot for a pair of earbuds. But I love 'em...

$280 is moderate for IEMs as one can hit $1K and above. Of course with IEMs, DAPs, etc,. at one point one experiences diminishing returns or no returns at all. As far as DAPs go I'm not willing to spend thousands for a portable device when IMO I can spend a few hundred for a top of the line FiiO and there will be no real difference in SQ. Besides I doubt that using a portable device on the go is not the best for critical listening conditions.

 

[Whitigir]

olddude I am with you about vacation and tangible values. Hence I also agree that this hobby is still better than expensive vacation or some expensive dinner, party...etc

 

[fzman]

@olddude I am with you about vacation and tangible values. Hence I also agree that this hobby is still better than expensive vacation or some expensive dinner, party...etc

I struggle with the conflict between collecting things and collecting experiences.  Both are valuable but I wonder what it sdays about a specific person, given the mix of both that motivates him/her....

 

[Danneq]

$280 is moderate for IEMs as one can hit $1K and above. Of course with IEMs, DAPs, etc,. at one point one experiences diminishing returns or no returns at all. As far as DAPs go I'm not willing to spend thousands for a portable device when IMO I can spend a few hundred for a top of the line FiiO and there will be no real difference in SQ. Besides I doubt that using a portable device on the go is not the best for critical listening conditions.

Not IEMs. Earbuds. You know the sort of thing you got with your iPod 10 years ago. Most people think earbuds sound like crap and would not pay more than $10 for a pair.

 

[StanD]

Not IEMs. Earbuds. You know the sort of thing you got with your iPod 10 years ago. Most people think earbuds sound like crap and would not pay more than $10 for a pair.

Ah, I see/hear. I've heard good earbuds and they were plenty more than $10, although I wouldn't expect the same sub bass extension as an IEM due to the seal. I can guess that you don't like shoving something into your ear canal.

 

[Currawong]

Since we're on the topic of the AK380, I do find that I can hear more detail from it with the same IEMs or headphones than I do with the X7, but mostly only with well-recorded music.
 
It was the same before with the AK240 and the X5, and the disproportionate difference between their prices was equally large. Then the Calyx M came along, and after a couple of firmware updates I felt pretty much matched the AK240 in every way, except one thing: Size. Now if Calyx could squash the M into an AK240-sized case and add TIDAL support... The X7 almost does it.
 
I think a good reason for the AK380 to be very expensive is that it gives other manufacturers a lot of room to experiment below that, without having to worry about setting a price the market wont bear, and not being able to make a worthwhile profit on it. 

 

[haiku]

For me, even my AK300/380amp combo sounds considerably better in every way than my old Fiio X7 with AM1,2 or 2A amp module. Shows, how widely we can differ in our opinions.....

 

[olddude]

There we go.  I had the X5 and loved it.  Then I was given a Pono and I could hear more detail and clarity.  Loved it.  Then I fell victim to audio desire and thought I'd try an AK.  The 120ll was at the top of my budget reality and I bit the bullet and got it.  I heard yet more detail and clarity, and a bit better soundstage.  This is with the UERM.  And the UI was better than anything I had tried (including iBasso).  I don't want to stream music (old school, I like files) and the AK is a great size for carrying.  
 
I totally agree that the top-end manufacturers give lower end companies something to shoot for below that price point.  Even the new Sony is ONLY $3K.  Same as car companies that push the half-million mark set a price point for slightly lower-end companies to stay under (Ferrari/Lambo vs. Porsche/Nissan/Audi).  Pure capitalism.  Try to buy one of the new Ferraris- they sell out immediately no matter how expensive they get.  But it's easy to go out and get a Porsche or Nissan or Audi.  Maybe it will be a quarter-second slower to 60mph, maybe the top speed is a few mph less, but pretty comparable.  And talk about a really expensive hobby!

 

[StanD]

One can see there are significant differences in subjective opinions as to SQ. There many reasons for this, which I always find a bit problematic.

 

[olddude]

Build a robot to listen to music and you will get an objective response every time.  We are people, and everything about us is subjective.  Food, art, love, pleasure, music, beauty, etc. are valued and enjoyed (or not) by each of us differently.    

 

[haiku]

  Build a robot to listen to music and you will get an objective response every time.  We are people, and everything about us is subjective.  Food, art, love, pleasure, music, beauty, etc. are valued and enjoyed (or not) by each of us differently.    

Exactly, and that´s why imo such "objective audio" discussions should all be moved to the  sound science forum.

 

[Currawong]

  One can see there are significant differences in subjective opinions as to SQ. There many reasons for this, which I always find a bit problematic.

If I may flog my own particular pet horse to death on this, I put a lot of it down to what music people listen to and how loud they listen. There is some scientific backing to this. I think though that the sheer number of factors involved make a lot of it difficult to nail down far beyond individual sensitivity. 

 

[headwhacker]

 
If I may flog my own particular pet horse to death on this, I put a lot of it down to what music people listen to and how loud they listen. There is some scientific backing to this. I think though that the sheer number of factors involved make a lot of it difficult to nail down far beyond individual sensitivity. 

 
I think the problem always comes down to people sharing/comparing experiences with mismatched conditions. There are almost no mention of a reference so It's always apples to orange that is why there is always unending arguments.
 
Even the adjectives people used most of time are self conflicting.
 
This hobby is closer to wine tasting than a computer CPU performance because there is no set of established parameters/benchmark to compare stuff.