Sensaphonics, Supermacro 627, iPod, and Treble Booster!

[toaster]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamdone The highs are definately lower in volume that the rest of the spectrum...They sound much better with the treble booster on. With it off, it sounds like you have a slight cold. This is how I felt they sounded after listening to the hd650/zu or the RS-1.

First off, i want to say that i am not saying anything that i do not believe. the sensas are by far, the best sound i have ever heard in my life, speakers or headphones. i want people to know this. and i am going to say great things about them. i also believe what i am saying in the comparison of the sensas to the etys to be true, based on the sound i have heard from each phone and base on what i know about each phone.

That being said...

The highs are definitely not lower in volume than the rest of the spectrum. They sound perfectly in balance with everything else. one might be able to say that the highs are not as powerful as the mids and lows; but naturally based on the way sound waves work, low frequencies always will sound "meatier," because more air is being moved. all headphones, and all sound will exhibit this characteristic.

Something i do find to be rather interesting about the sensas, and one of the main reasons that they do not ever exhibit harshness, is because they seem to keep high-frequency sounds further away from the ear. picture this:

You are standing between the entrance to two caves, one on your left side and one on your right side. the music you are listening to eminates from each cave, but instruments that emit higher frequencies are located towards the back of the cave. this allows the sound to be fully audible, without being as heavy or piercing on the ears. i don't know how this works and how you perceptibly push sounds back within a canalphone, but the sensas do it and it is pretty amazing. (the e5's actually did something similar to this as well, but not as effectively.)

It's funny, i have actually used treble REDUCER at times with the senseas. the treble on the sensas is so sharp, that for bad recordings it sometimes sounded a bit more soothing to my ears to listen with it on. (the bad recordings on the sensas sounded nothing like the shrill highs on the etys. although i should note that the ety highs never bothered me too much actually...but the ety highs certainly are not as comfortable to listen to as that of the sensas) Using treble reducer, obviously reduced treble detail, and for this reason, once i realized i was diluting the high-end quality, i ultimately ended up deciding against using any eq. i never really believed in eq. the sensas just sound so right to me, that i feel that eq'ing at all, just messes with the amazing sound signature that sensaphonics worked so hard to tailor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamdone When was the last time you listen to the etys? Yes the sensas sound much better than the etys overall but I think you are misleading people about the highend. It's there, clear, and much better than the shure E5, but I don't think it's quite where it should be. The etys sound harsh at times because the rest of the spectrum is too low causing an inbalance. As I said, you can still have great highs (without sibilance or harshness), all while keeping the mids and bass, I just haven't heard it done in a canalphone yet.

I haven't heard the etys in a while. I only heard them for a week. I also never used them with an amp...which i know must make a big difference because although the etys were good, coming straight out of an ipod, the most glowing reviews i heard about them just didn't make sense. So i have never heard the etys at their best. But, i was impressed with their high-end even just coming straight out of the ipod (that's what got me questioning the e5's...heh) as i noted in my review. Their sound overall, was kinda empty, and while i truly believe it would fill out a great deal with an amp, i don't want to need an amp for a canalphone to sound good. i also do not believe that with an amp they would sound nearly as good as the sensas. they only have one driver, which we all know means that they simply do not have the low-end capabilities of the sensas.

As i started this post, i am not trying to mislead people. The high-end on the sensas is absolutely incredible. To even bother comparing it to the e5 is just silly. I love the e5's, but they simply had zero high-end. To me, comparing the "magic" high-end of the etys to the high-end of the sensas makes perfect sense...except with the sensas, you lose any trace of sibilance or harshness and you have more instrument separation, which i learn to appreciate more and more everday as i realize i can follow any single instrument and hear new things the more songs i listen to. This is quite a feat, as the instrument separation of the etys is truly incredible.

The sensas simply take all the detail the etys has, but puts it in check with the rest of the spectrum, and makes it easier to listen to (using some mechanism that i detailed above.) Also, the sensas stop at what sounds to me to be a very real and accurate sounding response. this goes from the lowest low to the highest high. The etys on the other hand, add extra high-frequency "noise" for lack of a better word that i do not really believe is detail...and it doesn't sound real, which is something i apparently am looking for, and it takes this detail and shoves it in your face, because it does not have enough power to back it with. It sounds good, and it may at first sound more overtly detailed to some, but it really isn't. It actually isn't as detailed as the sensas, because it just isn't as refined and balanced, and in my opinion doesn't sound as real. This realness however, is a matter of preference and i will not hold this lack of realness directly against the etys.

As far as having great highs without sibilance, and all the while maintaining mids and bass that sound nothing short of real...all this in something that is custom fitted to sit in your ear..the sensas are where its at.

yeah, i believe all that.

It should be noted that all these observations are coming from having only heard the sensas straight out of the ipod, unamped.

 

[Jon L]

Wow, so much ink spilled over what is basically individual tastes and preferences.

People are mentioning HP-1000 as "reference," and I would agree, having owned one in past. I also own Ety4P (4S with SuperMono switch) and moded AKG K1000. I hate the sound of 4S, but would put 4P in the "reference" category as well as K1000. Don't like Senns, though havent tried 650.

All 3 headphones I mention have very different presentations, yet all are reference headphones IMO. None of 3 come close to real unamplified music in a nice hall, and neither does my multi-megabuck speaker setup. None of any demo setups I've heard, no matter $$$, comes close, either, not even with SACD.

I don't believe reference fidelity to mimic live unamplified music will be possible at all, no matter the transducer, until native >24-32 bit, >192 kHz signal can be fed into true digital (not class T,D, Ice, whatever) amps usitilizing true phase/room/speaker/time correction. So what's the point of arguing what is "reference" headphones currently?

 

[iamdone]

Toaster, thanks for clearing that up. I still disagree. This far away sound is what I'd call veil. It's there on the highs and mids. Yes you can still hear everything, it's just sounds distant. So they can reproduce sound up to 16k, it just sounds veiled.

I just think some people are more sensitive the highs than others which can determine their preference. I agree that the etys highs can be harsh and do have a slight boost. This is not exactly what I'm looking for in the sensas.

As I said, it all a comparative thing as well as preferrence.

sensas vs etys: full bodied, great overall sound, out of head experience, highs veil but not harsh and not as detailed in the highend

sensas vs hd650: better bass, faster, quicker response, not as airy or open, missing high sparkle, small soundstage

sensas vs RS-1: lacking highend, mid recessed, drums not as realistic, missing airy open sound, lacking energy, a little better soundstage

 

[Zoide]

Man... all this talk about the RS-1 being even better than the Sensas is getting me all tempted....

 

[gorman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon L I don't believe reference fidelity to mimic live unamplified music will be possible at all, no matter the transducer, until native >24-32 bit, >192 kHz signal can be fed into true digital (not class T,D, Ice, whatever) amps usitilizing true phase/room/speaker/time correction. So what's the point of arguing what is "reference" headphones currently?

Well, let's shut down these boards until then, ok?

 

[lindrone]

So, for my version of the same comparative reference...

sensas vs etys:
Full bodied sound, much better realistic soundstage. Everything sounds more natural and realistic. Not sibiliant. Once again, much more natural treble as opposed to accentuated treble. Sounds more like "live" than anything else. The degree of realism is superb.


sensas vs hd650:
Faster response, deeper bass reproduction with more impact. A little more neutral. Much better frontal imaging than the HD650. A little less warmth, a little more neutral. I didn't feel that the trebles was missing much of anything. Less "airiness" in soundstage, although the size of the soundstage is about the same.


sensas vs RS-1:
RS-1 was harsh in its highs and colored at the same time. Trebles were sharp and sibilant, rest of the sound is fast paced and warm. I didn't find anything in RS-1 that I really liked much at all. RS-1 had a smaller soundstage as well. It's like a super version of SR225... nice, warm, fast, but it was still fatiguing and too much treble energy.

 

[iamdone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoide Man... all this talk about the RS-1 being even better than the Sensas is getting me all tempted....

Sorry about that.

Yeah, if your music library is less classical and more rock, pop, jazz, electronic, alt rock, I think you might like them. Its still a preference. These are in your face sound while some prefer the concert hall laid back sound. I think they are much better than the sensas. Also, some people that are sensitive the highs could find them fatiguing. No one headphone is right for everyone.

 

[iamdone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lindrone sensas vs RS-1: RS-1 was harsh in its highs and colored at the same time. Trebles were sharp and sibilant, rest of the sound is fast paced and warm. I didn't find anything in RS-1 that I really liked much at all. RS-1 had a smaller soundstage as well. It's like a super version of SR225... nice, warm, fast, but it was still fatiguing and too much treble energy.

This shows exactly how much peference and sensitivity to highs makes difference. I love their sound and don't find them harsh at all. On some of really fast albums they can be fatiguing but that said could be said if you saw these band in concert. Just the nature of the band.

As far as the sounstage, I prefer the RS-1 on most of my music except classical and a few slow songs. I feel like I'm right at the front of the stage. I was surprised that I like this soundstage for jazz as well. Much more intimate.

Anyway, for fullsized headphones, you at least have to option of listening to them first or returning or reselling them. For the custom iem you might have a chance to try the universal models before trying them. Everyone's has different tastes.

 

[jlingo]

Ok Lindrone, doesn't like sibilance or treble which fatiguing.

The fact is when I'm watching a life performance, it's fatiguing. I'm usually wearing my musician earplugs.
Well, I don't want my earphone to be way too fatiguing, but at the same time I don't want it too sound too smooth and recessed. That's not how I feel when watching life performances.

Iamdone,
yeah on, pop and R&B, heavy metal, the high is fatiguing, but for Jazz, Classical, Instrumental, the extended high is awesome! As I said, when I watch a real performances, it can be fatiguing and that's how it should be anyway. But I also watch, classical and jazz, which is not fatiguing, unless you watch it for straight 4 hrs.

 

[lindrone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlingo Ok Lindrone, doesn't like sibilance or treble which fatiguing. The fact is when I'm watching a life performance, it's fatiguing. I'm usually wearing my musician earplugs. Well, I don't want my earphone to be way too fatiguing, but at the same time I don't want it too sound too smooth and recessed. That's not how I feel when watching life performances.

When I go to live shows, I rarely sit in the front row. Due to one, extraordinary high cost for some musicians; two, super high speaker volumes that tend to damage one's ear.

Sit a few sections back, that's how I like my shows live as well. I don't find live show's treble fatiguing at all...

Then again, that depends on who you're watching (rock bands on crack loves to crank it up and make everything blow your eardrusm off), and what speakers they're using as well.

 

[jlingo]

Lindrone,

Ok, well actually I don't talk only life performances with speakers. but life performances without speakers as well. it's really life in a closed environment like in a hotel. In many 5 star hotels, they have live performances without using amplification nor speakers after 9pm. different kinds, vocal, jazz, acapella, well, uh definitely not heavy metal or rock(which is through speakers), and I think the extra edge high resonate beautifully, openness, clarity.

 

[iamdone]

Basically for me, the biggest difference and my main peference for the RS-1 is bands like Jane's Addiction, Nirvana, the Pixies, Rage Against Machine, Danzig, Led Zeppelin, and others have never sounded better.

I don't find them realistic and even that enjoyable on the hd650/zu or sensas. There are so many bands that this can be said for as well. That's why I sold the hd650/zu the next day and why I am dissatisfied with the sensas. When I heard those bands with the RS-1, it just seemed right. No analyzing the sound, just knowing this is how it should sound. Truely a great experience. Apparently some have the exact opposite experience.

Edit: For me, most live show I go to are small clubs with about 100 -500 or so people. I like to be right at the stage watching the band play. Almost an interactive experience.

 

[Zoide]

lindrone: I find it curious that, one the one hand, you don't like the RS-1's because of their treble energy/sibilance. Yet at the same time you really like the CD3K, which to a certain degree share some of those same qualities (haven't heard the RS-1's myself, though).

 

[lindrone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jilingo Ok, well actually I don't talk only life performances with speakers. but life performances without speakers as well. it's really life in a closed environment like in a hotel.

I've gone some of those as well... and classical concerts without speakers.... but I've never found the treble anywhere near as sharp in a life concert as you get with the Ety ER-4's. The room acoustic and air/distance just naturally dampens some of that, the sound can be "crisp", but not painful.

It's more often you get that sort of painful sound listening to "rock bands on crack"

I've seen Ben Folds & Chicks On Speed practically next to the stage before (as iamdone will attest, the Fillmore isn't all that big)... Chicks On Speed is an infinitely more painful experience for my ears.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoide lindrone: I find it curious that, one the one hand, you don't like the RS-1's because of their treble energy/sibilance. Yet at the same time you really like the CD3K, which to a certain degree share some of those same qualities (haven't heard the RS-1's myself, though).

It's interesting.. I never found RS-1's treble energy to be the same as the CD3000's. Meanwhile RS-1's treble energy is in your face, punchy and powerful... CD3000's treble is rather light & airy, although similarly sharp. A well matched amp will take care of any of the treble energy of the CD3000 and smooth it over, but it wouldn't perform that to the same degree with RS-1.

 

[jlingo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lindrone I've gone some of those as well... and classical concerts without speakers.... but I've never found the treble anywhere near as sharp in a life concert as you get with the Ety ER-4's. The room acoustic and air/distance just naturally dampens some of that, the sound can be "crisp", but not painful.

Ok Ety ER-4S without Amp is way too harsh, unbearable. Properly amped, with supermacro 627, really shaved the rough edges, and give thickness, bass and body to it.
Sensaphonics unfortunately, for my setting is a little bit short in high.
I find HD600 has better high than Sensaphonics.