[kerelybonto]

One must remember that the ability to hear subtle differences in sound and the ability to recognize subtle differences in sound must be present in order for said differences to be ... heard and recognized.

One of the reasons some people spend insane amounts on audio and others are happy with their clock radio is that some people can hear decidedly better than others. Some people just can't hear some of the things people on this forum talk about. But it's okay. Life will go on.

Then there's having an audiophile ear. Even if you have excellent hearing -- you can hear dog whistles and light bulbs, say -- you might not be able to hear the difference between two close pieces of audio gear. That's because you don't know what to listen for. This is an acquired skill -- whether acquiring it is a good thing is obviously up to your discretion.

I haven't heard the HD580 or the HD600. I don't know if a difference exists. But I trust that it does based on the many opinions I've read on this board.

kerely

 

[Gus B]

Lodo, I have to agree with your reply to Lou (LTUCCI1924) although I hate to disagree with a fellow Philadelphian. I A/B'd my HD-600 with my portapros and found the 600's significantly better in every respect, even though I think the portapros are great & a great value. Of course, if bifcake & d-audi are wrong, Lou & I may differ merely because he compared the 580s & I compared the 600s, but I can't opine on that one since I never heard the 580s.

 

[bifcake]

Quote:

Originally posted by kerelybonto One must remember that the ability to hear subtle differences in sound and the ability to recognize subtle differences in sound must be present in order for said differences to be ... heard and recognized. I haven't heard the HD580 or the HD600. I don't know if a difference exists. But I trust that it does based on the many opinions I've read on this board. kerely

Kerely,

I am confident that if there was a difference, I would have heard it. I heard the top of the line Genesis speakers and I was able to pin point a hole in the frequency response. All my friends laughed at me at the time saying that I was nuts, but my assessment was confirmed by dealer who said Genesis was coming in soon to extend the ribbons on the speakers in order to plug in the hole in the frequency response.

This is just one example. I have very good ears and can provide witness testimonials to such.

Don't be in such a haste to proclaim an opinion and sound difference in products you haven't heard. People tend to have a herd mentality. They see one post stating "X" and everyone starts saying "X" without having heard the equipment. Don't take opinions here as gospel. Rather, use them as a guide to sample recommended equipment and make a judgment for yourself.

 

[HappymaN]

How about we agree to disagree?

 

[bifcake]

Quote:

Originally posted by HappymaN How about we agree to disagree?

I have no problem with that. I'm not a Christian missionary set out to convert all you barbarian heathen and show you the error of your ways.

 

[OneMalt]

Wasn't this a thread about removing pads?

 

[Mr.PD]

Quote:

Originally posted by lodo I bought some Senn's 600 a few days ago. Then as I continued reading the board, I deceided to give the Grado 325 a try too, as most of what I read said they were good rock phones. ........ I had read that their a bit bright, but I like that in speakers--I have always preferred better JBL's. ........The Grado's are way to bright for me, and like I said, I thought I liked bright speakers, but there just too much so. .....Now, for the Senn's-- I kinda liked them right off, but after 30hr burn, they started sounding so nice! Bass sounds plenty tight for me, and the highs are sparkiling, but not over done at all. ..........

Thank you for buying both. I too like brighter speakers (JBL, Infinity) and thought I should get Grado's. I found a good deal on HD580 so I got those instead. I was wondering if I shouldn't have waited and gotten the 325's. I really like the Senn's, and after reading this now I don't think I missed out. I may still get 325's some day though.

 

[bifcake]

Mr. PD,

The Grados and Senns sound so different, that most people prefer either one or the other. If you like Senns, chances are that you won't like Grados and vice versa. What you should probably do is find a store near you that sells Grados and check them out. If you like them, get them and keep both the Grados and Senns. The sound is sufficiently different that you won't feel you're being redundant.

 

[arnett]

Quote:

Originally posted by D-Audi 600's and 580's are EXACTLY the same - soundwise

i'd like to chime in on this one. i think the pads (and how worn they are) make a considerable difference in sound. i remember when i put replacement pads on my HD580s -- everything became clearer and more detailed, and the sound was less warm.

when i compared the HD580s vs. HD600s at the headroom show, they were basically the same headphone to me. the HD580 was 95% of the HD600. if you compare your 5-year-old HD580s to brand new HD600s, it's understandable that you'd hear a difference -- but perhaps most of the difference is the result of old vs. new ear pads.

 

[bifcake]

Everyone was talking about sound improvement when removing the foam inserts from the 580s and 600's that I had to try it. When I did, I definitely heard the difference in sound. It was very pronounced, but I didn't like it at all. It sounded as though someone shifted equalization to favor the higher frequencies. The mellowness was gone and it was replaced by this unnatural sounding harshness that I really didn't care for.

When comparing 600's to 580s, I did not find 600's equalization curve to be any different. As I stated earlier, I heard no difference at all. My understanding is that the drivers, the pads and the foam inserts are the same, but the backing material is different. Theoretically, it should make a difference, but it didn't.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally posted by bifcake Everyone was talking about sound improvement when removing the foam inserts from the 580s and 600's that I had to try it. When I did, I definitely heard the difference in sound. It was very pronounced, but I didn't like it at all. It sounded as though someone shifted equalization to favor the higher frequencies. The mellowness was gone and it was replaced by this unnatural sounding harshness that I really didn't care for.

It's funny: There are lots of complaints about the HD 580/600's veiledness – and when finally the veil is removed, it's quite the opposite... «unnatural brightness and harshness»...

But that's no offense. It's accepted that you like the sound more as it is. So you possibly use your HD 580 with the stock cable (?). I just wonder why you judge it as «unnatural» without the foam pads, while for me it's quite the right balance that way and the openness and clarity I want from a headphone, the same way I perceive it from live concerts.

Why is our perception that different? There are several possibilities:

1. Your ear's shape and physical behavior is clearly different from mine.
2. You prefere a more intimate, mellow imaging which doesn't entirely align with your own hearing at live concerts, or this is definitely your individual (psychoacoustic) transformation from free-field hearing.
3. Your source device and/or your amp sound brighter than mine, maybe even slightly harsh (?).
4. Your sonic preselection with CD purchasing (adapted to the Sennheiser sound) entails that you own nothing but brightly recorded CDs.

I guess the plausibility is increasing in decreasing order (except for point 4, which isn't meant too seriously...

). We shouldn't underestimate the contribution from our equipment – I suppose it's an important criterion when it comes to such debates. And I even favor the source over the amp.

JaZZ

 

[bifcake]

Jazz,

I completely agree with you. I also don't mean to suggest that the 580's are perfect. Not at all. However, they are a very pleasant headphone.

I also agree with you regarding favoring the sources over the amp. I think there's much more to be gained from source upgrades than from amp upgrades.

 

[akira]

Quote:

Originally posted by arnett when i compared the HD580s vs. HD600s at the headroom show, they were basically the same headphone to me. the HD580 was 95% of the HD600. if you compare your 5-year-old HD580s to brand new HD600s, it's understandable that you'd hear a difference -- but perhaps most of the difference is the result of old vs. new ear pads.

I made A/B comparison on my HD580 Jubilee and HD600. I found clear difference of sound. Interesting is HD580 Jubiee sounds a little bit shiny than HD600. I had thought normaly older cans lose high frequency responce. The condition of ear pads looks same.
(FYI: HD580 Jubilee is not HD580 Precision. you can regard it as old name of HD600.)

Not only the condition of ear pad. Not only New or Old. The history (how long, which source, how loud,...) of each headphone must make difference in sound. Moreover, I'm afraid the control of headphone characteristic is not so accrately done as we expect. Sennheiser states that HD600 is equipped with matched pair of transducers. It means there is unnegligible difference between each product. I believe that we may hear difference between two brand new HD580s. In other words, we may get HD580 and HD600, which have exactly same characteristics in sound

 

[D-Audi]

The next question you must ask yourself is - why is the retail on the HD600's ~$200 more??? Hmmmmmm........

 

[bifcake]

They charge because they can. They change the cosmetic of a product, give it a new name and put a higher price tag on it. Then everyone goes around saying that the repackaged product sounds better than the old package. It's the Emperor's New Clothes all over again.