[mbyrnes]

The m9XX also sounds horrible with the HD650's, it seems to be SS amps in general. Which is funny, because most recommend the 650 as the "budget king" hands down, when in reality there doesn't seem to be any amp under $300 that "does it justice". People forget the added cost, and the fact that it only sounds good with a number of amps, all of them tube. I feel like this is the tube rolling thread ("It's the best amp out there! Just add in a $250 tube and it'll sound great!")

I think some tube amps sound amazing. I'm not for the "coloration is bad" argument, unless it takes away some detail or soundstage (which many of them seem to do, FWIW).

...But to declare the HD650 as the "king" of headphones, with the added caveat that it "needs" a $450 Bottlehead Crack with Speedball? Lol, no thanks. I'll be sticking to my K7XX and DACport Slim combo.

You don't need any of that. Just properly power them with good music and they'll sound great. When people get into the OTL amp thing, they're saying they'll sound their best. Many in the headphone game chase those last few details, extracting everything they can. Nothing wrong with not chasing the unicorn. End of the day, it's your setup and you need to be happy with it. If you are, get off these forums! Lol

 

[mattlach]

   
nice, looking forward to you impressions

 
 
Alright.  Here are my initial impressions with the following setup:
 
- Schiit Modi Multibit DAC
- Schiit Jotunheim amp.
- Single ended (I haven't modded a cable for balanced yet)
 
The Jotunheim is in low gain mode, with the volume knob at about 12:30.
 
I put them on a pink noise burn-in for 8 hours just for good measure.  I'm not convinced burn-in is a huge deal, but I was busy with snow removal and not able to listen to them anyway.
 
These headphones are only my second set of "good" headphones after the Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro's (250 ohm), so I will make my comments comparative rather than absolute, as I only have one frame of reference.

The Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro's which while marketed as a studio reference design, have a rather hi-fi oriented V shaped sound (in other words, lots of treble and lots of bass, and muted midrange) Ironically enough, the HD6xx's are a lot more neutral, even though they are marketed as hi-fi listening headphones. I'm not used to this much mid-range. The Beyerdynamic's can often have a bit of a harshness to the treble if you are not used to them, there is none of that with the HD6xx's. I could go on listening to these forever without tiring out my ears. I was worried that maybe the bass would be weak, but that isn't the case at all. I find they provide a very nice and satisfying tight bass thump in the right tracks.

The intense highs in the Beyerdynamic's often give the illusion of extreme clarity. That is not present in the HD6xx's which means at first this can make them seem a little less crisp, but once you get used to them, the experience - I feel - is better. Particularly since I feel this makes the HD6xx's a little bit more forgiving to poor recordings. On the Beyerdynamic's I couldn't enjoy some tracks (Like Peter Gabriel's Solsbury Hill). The poor recording quality would bother me too much. With the HD650's tracks like these sound great.

The HD650's are open backed, so I was expecting them to have much more of a sound stage than the Beyerdynamics which are closed backed, but my take is that they are fairly close in that regard, with the HD650's coming out slightly ahead. I had read somewhere in the past that the Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro's have a lot of sound stage for a closed back set of headphones. I guess that is true. 

Being open backed, they of course let in a lot more ambient sound than I am used to, but this is not bad when things are more quiet around the house. If anything, the fact that the sound is neutral and not harsh, allows me to turn up the volume more than I usually do, with them still being comfortable and drowning out some of that ambient noise anyway. The opposite is also true. More sound leaks out from the headphones than with the Beyerdynamics. So if you don't want to bother anyone, these are not the right headphones to listen to.

As far as physical comfort goes, the Beyerdynamics win by far, at least on my head. The HD650's have some adjustments, but no matter how I adjust them, they feel very tight. I do have a large head, and this might be why. Over time they might be uncomfortably tight. I might be able to bend them slightly to address this. The Beyers - on the other hand - are the most comfortable things I've ever put on my head.

It is clear to me these are better headphones than the DT770's, but that should be a surprise. The HD6xx's on massdrop sold for only $199 as part of the group buy promotion, but they originally had an MSRP of $650, though more typically sell for ~$350 these days, as they have been on the market for many years, and Sennheisers HD800 and HD800s have taken over as their new flagship headphones.

The DT770 Pro's I bought on sale for $139 7 years ago. So they are in different price classes.

I'll still have good use for the Beyerdynamic's though (especially when it is loud around me, or I need to be quiet) so I plan on keeping them around.

They are different headphones for different uses!
 
One thing I am a little bit disappointed about is that the cambe they came with is a 3.5mm plug, with a TRS adapter, just like my DT770 Pro's.   I don't understand why they do this on headphones with this high of an impedance.   You're not going to want to plug them into your iPhone anyway.   I would have preferred if they came with a TRS only cable, or better yet, a balanced 4-ping XLR cable and a 4 pin XLR to TRS adapter.

It may seem like nitpicking by my DT770's adapter is a screw on type and looks rather premium.  You wouldn't even know it was an adapter by just looking at it, when the adapter is on.   The HD6xx's TRS adapter looks pretty cheap and obvious.
 
I have bought an official Sennheiser replacement cable I was planning to lop off in order to convert the headphones to balanced.   Interestingly enough, the replacement cable is TRS only.   Because of this, I might just keep the replacement cable as my TRS cable, and lop off the included cable for balanced goodness, and get rid of that pesky 3.5mm plug.

 

[mbyrnes]

Alright.  Here are my initial impressions with the following setup:

- Schiit Modi Multibit DAC
- Schiit Jotunheim amp.
- Single ended (I haven't modded a cable for balanced yet)

The Jotunheim is in low gain mode, with the volume knob at about 12:30.

I put them on a pink noise burn-in for 8 hours just for good measure.  I'm not convinced burn-in is a huge deal, but I was busy with snow removal and not able to listen to them anyway.

[COLOR=1D2129]These headphones are only my second set of "good" headphones after the Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro's (250 ohm), so I will make my comments comparative rather than absolute, as I only have one frame of reference.[/COLOR][COLOR=1D2129]
[/COLOR][COLOR=1D2129]
[/COLOR][COLOR=1D2129]The Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro's which while marketed as a studio reference design, have a rather hi-fi oriented V shaped sound (in other words, lots of treble and lots of bass, and muted midrange) [/COLOR][COLOR=1D2129]Ironically enough, the HD6xx's are a lot more neutral, even though they are marketed as hi-fi listening headphones. I'm not used to this much mid-range. The Beyerdynamic's can often have a bit of a harshness to the treble if you are not used to them, there is none of that with the HD6xx's. I could go on listening to these forever without tiring out my ears. I was worried that maybe the bass would be weak, but that isn't the case at all. I find they provide a very nice and satisfying tight bass thump in the right tracks.[/COLOR][COLOR=1D2129]
[/COLOR][COLOR=1D2129]
[/COLOR][COLOR=1D2129]The intense highs in the Beyerdynamic's often give the illusion of extreme clarity. That is not present in the HD6xx's which means at first this can make them seem a little less crisp, but once you get used to them, the experience - I feel - is better. Particularly since I feel this makes the HD6xx's a little bit more forgiving to poor recordings. On the Beyerdynamic's I couldn't enjoy some tracks (Like Peter Gabriel's Solsbury Hill). The poor recording quality would bother me too much. With the HD650's tracks like these sound great.[/COLOR][COLOR=1D2129]
[/COLOR][COLOR=1D2129]
[/COLOR][COLOR=1D2129]The HD650's are open backed, so I was expecting them to have much more of a sound stage than the Beyerdynamics which are closed backed, but my take is that they are fairly close in that regard, with the HD650's coming out slightly ahead. I had read somewhere in the past that the Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro's have a lot of sound stage for a closed back set of headphones. I guess that is true. [/COLOR][COLOR=1D2129]
[/COLOR][COLOR=1D2129]
[/COLOR][COLOR=1D2129]Being open backed, they of course let in a lot more ambient sound than I am used to, but this is not bad when things are more quiet around the house. If anything, the fact that the sound is neutral and not harsh, allows me to turn up the volume more than I usually do, with them still being comfortable and drowning out some of that ambient noise anyway. The opposite is also true. More sound leaks out from the headphones than with the Beyerdynamics. So if you don't want to bother anyone, these are not the right headphones to listen to.[/COLOR][COLOR=1D2129]
[/COLOR][COLOR=1D2129]
[/COLOR][COLOR=1D2129]As far as physical comfort goes, the Beyerdynamics win by far, at least on my head. The HD650's have some adjustments, but no matter how I adjust them, they feel very tight. I do have a large head, and this might be why. Over time they might be uncomfortably tight. I might be able to bend them slightly to address this. The Beyers - on the other hand - are the most comfortable things I've ever put on my head.[/COLOR][COLOR=1D2129]
[/COLOR][COLOR=1D2129]
[/COLOR][COLOR=1D2129]It is clear to me these are better headphones than the DT770's, but that should be a surprise. The HD6xx's on massdrop sold for only $199 as part of the group buy promotion, but they originally had an MSRP of $650, though more typically sell for ~$350 these days, as they have been on the market for many years, and Sennheisers HD800 and HD800s have taken over as their new flagship headphones.[/COLOR][COLOR=1D2129]
[/COLOR][COLOR=1D2129]
[/COLOR][COLOR=1D2129]The DT770 Pro's I bought on sale for $139 7 years ago. So they are in different price classes.[/COLOR][COLOR=1D2129]
[/COLOR][COLOR=1D2129]
[/COLOR][COLOR=1D2129]I'll still have good use for the Beyerdynamic's though (especially when it is loud around me, or I need to be quiet) so I plan on keeping them around.[/COLOR][COLOR=1D2129]
[/COLOR][COLOR=1D2129]
[/COLOR][COLOR=1D2129]They are different headphones for different uses![/COLOR]

[COLOR=1D2129]One thing I am a little bit disappointed about is that the cambe they came with is a 3.5mm plug, with a TRS adapter, just like my DT770 Pro's.   I don't understand why they do this on headphones with this high of an impedance.   You're not going to want to plug them into your iPhone anyway.   I would have preferred if they came with a TRS only cable, or better yet, a balanced 4-ping XLR cable and a 4 pin XLR to TRS adapter.[/COLOR]


It may seem like nitpicking by my DT770's adapter is a screw on type and looks rather premium.  You wouldn't even know it was an adapter by just looking at it, when the adapter is on.   The HD6xx's TRS adapter looks pretty cheap and obvious.

 
[COLOR=1D2129]I have bought an official Sennheiser replacement cable I was planning to lop off in order to convert the headphones to balanced.   Interestingly enough, the replacement cable is TRS only.   Because of this, I might just keep the replacement cable as my TRS cable, and lop off the included cable for balanced goodness, and get rid of that pesky 3.5mm plug.[/COLOR]

It's funny, I'll use mine with my phone, but I understand many won't unless you have an LG V series, or one or two select phones that can easily handle these. I agree though, my DT 990s with the screw on adapter is far nicer. I was actually shocked it didn't screw together. Glad you like them so far. They are very different, that's for sure.

 

[gwompki]

It's funny, I'll use mine with my phone, but I understand many won't unless you have an LG V series, or one or two select phones that can easily handle these. I agree though, my DT 990s with the screw on adapter is far nicer. I was actually shocked it didn't screw together. Glad you like them so far. They are very different, that's for sure.

Have you tried yours with an LG v series yet or are you still waiting to receive them? I'm very curious about this pairing after Jude's video but haven't seen much written about how well the two work together.

 

[goldendarko]

Any word from massdrop when the last 8% will be shipping, im assuming after christmas arrival at this point?

 

[avitron142]

You don't need any of that. Just properly power them with good music and they'll sound great. When people get into the OTL amp thing, they're saying they'll sound their best. Many in the headphone game chase those last few details, extracting everything they can. Nothing wrong with not chasing the unicorn. End of the day, it's your setup and you need to be happy with it. If you are, get off these forums! Lol

I wish, but no. Trust me, I have some decent music (I was a reviewer here after all), and with many SS amps I've tried, it sound legitimately horrible, most notably in its muddy bass. Ironically, it sounded better with no dedicated DAC/amp (like with a phone) than the solid state amps I've tried. 
 
I also have the K7XX and HE400S (with HM5 pads) to compare, and with the SS amps I've tried, both were miles ahead of the 650. Either way, until I tried it with the Torpedo and other tube amps, I couldn't begin to see why these were considered better than the K7XX, or even close. I'm not trying to exaggerate here, I was just extremely disappointed with how it sounded out of most of the DAC/amp's I've tried, and this was before I heard any hype about it.
 
And then these are recommended to beginners in the audiophile world? These should be the LAST thing on any beginner's list, unless he knows he has another $300-400 to burn on a DAC/amp combo alone.

 

[mattlach]

I wish, but no. Trust me, I have some decent music (I was a reviewer here after all), and with many SS amps I've tried, it sound legitimately horrible, most notably in its muddy bass. Ironically, it sounded better with no dedicated DAC/amp (like with a phone) than the solid state amps I've tried. 

I also have the K7XX and HE400S (with HM5 pads) to compare, and with the SS amps I've tried, both were miles ahead of the 650. Either way, until I tried it with the Torpedo and other tube amps, I couldn't begin to see why these were considered better than the K7XX, or even close. I'm not trying to exaggerate here, I was just extremely disappointed with how it sounded out of most of the DAC/amp's I've tried, and this was before I heard any hype about it.

Well, for what it's worth I think they sound great on my Jotunheim.

 

[avitron142]

Well, for what it's worth I think they sound great on my Jotunheim.

I haven't heard the Jotun yet, but from what I've heard before, it's the best SS pairing with the HD650's, so I'd probably expect to hear it like you are now. Not sure if the Vali 2 is better though for these headphones, I'd have to check into it. Jotun's still like $400-500, no?
 
Good DAC/amps are becoming affordable these days (DACport Slim for one, and the lower end Schiit products), but it doesn't help if those products don't sound good with the HD650. Personally, I've tried them with some Schiit products and tube amps (modded HD650's, I think), and I think the sound great with a good pairing. But I also think the K7XX and HE400S do, for cheaper...

 

[h2rulz]

  I haven't heard the Jotun yet, but from what I've heard before, it's the best SS pairing with the HD650's, so I'd probably expect to hear it like you are now. Not sure if the Vali 2 is better though for these headphones, I'd have to check into it. Jotun's still like $400-500, no?
 
Good DAC/amps are becoming affordable these days (DACport Slim for one, and the lower end Schiit products), but it doesn't help if those products don't sound good with the HD650. Personally, I've tried them with some Schiit products and tube amps (modded HD650's, I think), and I think the sound great with a good pairing. But I also think the K7XX and HE400S do, for cheaper...

Despite the fact that I may still recommend the 650 to people just entering the audiophile world (knowing that this hobby never stops at owning a few lower end amps), I agree with most of what avitron142 says here.
 
In fact, in my early audiophile stages, I also had the K7XX, HE400S, DACport Slim, Schiit Asgard 2. Back then I really didn't see what all the fuss was with the 650. But that all changed when I later got the Valhalla 2. Quite noticeably the 650 took on a different character.

 

[Levanter]

Any word from massdrop when the last 8% will be shipping, im assuming after christmas arrival at this point?

I think they already started shipping to the 8%. I got my tracking yesterday.

 

[goldendarko]

I think they already started shipping to the 8%. I got my tracking yesterday.

Ah i see, well hopefully mine will ship by Monday then! doubt it will make it by christmas but im only in virginia so maybe they will

 

[mysticstryk]

Well, for what it's worth I think they sound great on my Jotunheim.

The 650 does pair well with the Jotunheim. One of the few SS amps that it sounds great out of.

To the poster that said you need $300 to start getting the best out of the 650 with tubes, you can actually spend a whole lot less. The 650 pairs very well with both the original Vali (which can be found for under $99 in the classifieds) and Vali 2 ($169 new). Just pair one of those with the $99 Modi 2 or a Modi Multibit ($250) and you've got a great value rig.

 

[schalliol]

How do you know how it was intended to sound like?

Based upon the recording. The best headphones should replicate the sound recorded as can be charted. I.e. A frequency input = a frequency output at the same level of intensity. The one exception here for headphones is the way it was recorded: for headphones or for loudspeakers. On this point, I'll use my BUDA's crossfeed circuit if you're getting too much separation not intended.

 

[Voxata]

It needs a good amp, but it doesn't sound bad on all SS.

 

[caenlenfromOCN]

It needs a good amp, but it doesn't sound bad on all SS.

I hope my Vali 2 on high gain is enough to give the HD6xx some texture. Looking forward to using your custom cable with it