[subguy812]

  I had a quick search but didnt see anything about it so i'm just wondering if anyone has seen the Momentum 2.0 wired galaxy version cable? The local website here says it has a remote that allows you to control phone calls, music, and volume. The picture shows an inline remote with volume control buttons much like one for an idevice but i have never seen one like that which works for android.

That is the one I have, it says for Samsung devices. The inline controls do not work on my Moto X, but the SQ is so good I dont't care.

 

[kjellscript]

I have ordered a pair of the over-ear but it will take around 4 months before delivery... :-/
 
I have MM400-X and MM450X today and use them alot. The ANC on MM450-X is really bad, but I listened to Bose QC25 and the ANC there were really good, so I hope that the Momentum Wireless are closer to QC25 than MM450-X
 
Anyway, I use the microphone on my MM4x0-X a lot and it's not good either, so can someone comment on the microphone on the Momentum Wireless? I will mostly use it outside and it's usually quite windy here.
 
Thanks in advance!

 

[HotShotMedic]

I dunno man, been following this thread for a while and considered getting these.  I have the original momentum "over-ear" cans and was excited to see a wireless version with bigger ear cups.  These bluetooth issues seriously have me wanting to wait for the NEXT iteration of these or I'll simply pick up the wired version.  Disappointing for sure.
I have a pair of Sony MDR-XB950BT which are bluetooth as well.  I haven't experienced ANY drop outs or stutters on these, EVER.  And I can literally walk all around my house while leaving my phone at the other end of the house.  Something I never thought was possible with Bluetooth.  Whatever Sony did, Sennheiser should pay attention and implement next time.  Granted, these Sony's don't sound as good as the Momentum's and are geared mostly towards bassheads.  But its something I can live with for now to enjoy wireless freedom. 

 

[acti0n]

  I would saythe problem has nothing to do with the cups, not really sure they are metal. My headphones went for service today I'll hopefully get a working pair back in 2-5 weeks and experience this far has been far from premium.

How long have you had these? If you just bought them and they're defective, having to send them out for a 2-5 week repair seems ridiculous. I would just exchange them.

 

[Claws]

  How long have you had these? If you just bought them and they're defective, having to send them out for a 2-5 week repair seems ridiculous. I would just exchange them.

2 days, I got them on the 10:th of mars and they got sent for service yesterday.

 

[Ahzari]

So thought id write some of my early experiences with the new M2 On Ear wireless compared to the M2 over ear.
 
On ear: Pros:
lighter
more portable and better looking (not as huge as the M2)
easier to put around neck when not listening
alcantara pads get warm, but not as much as leather
surprisingly comfortable for a on ear (big head, rather big ears here)
ANC is surprisingly good for an on ear
Feel like they can handle being tossed around
 
Cons:
Pads are not as soft or filled as the M2 on ear, so they arent quite as comfortable
ANC not as good as on ear
SQ lacking in the midrange (but not terribly)
 
Over Ear: Pros:
Over ear, less pressure - more comfortable
ANC is good, better than the On Ear
Excellent SQ (best of all the wireless ANC's I've used and its most of them)
 
Cons:
Bigger and heavier - I personally didn't like wearing them walking around a city
Weight + leather pads make them steamy after about 30-45 minutes
 
 
Basically, between the two, for SQ the over ear - no question.. but the on ear sounds really good 75-85% there. The on ear is a lot more portable, walking around I had no problem putting them around my neck when talking to people, whereas the over ears my neck would constantly bump into the ear pads. I like and dislike the alcantara - its cooler and doesnt have that stick when taking them off after a long listening session like leather cups - but its not padded as much so they feel stiffer and don't conform to the ear well. 
 
In terms of other on ear headphones I've tried, the BeoPlay H8 sounds better than the M2 On Ear and has better ANC, but is also more expensive. I would say they are equally comfortable, but I prefer the look and build of the H8. The M2 is lighter and I would say more portable just because it feels like it can be knocked around and tossed around without getting messed up. 
 
If i were to give specific merits to the three headphones I noted.
 
M2 over ear wins in SQ
M2 on ear wins in portability and durability
H8 wins in style and build materials
 
One note, something I noticed that was different from the pictures online of the on ear M2, the microphone grills on the advertising photos looked like a brushed metal color, but the ones i received were painted black (a little bit of a bummer cause i thought the stainless steel grills looked nice - maybe it was the lighting in the pics).
 

 

[Giogio]

Where did you get the On Ear?
They are not available in EU. Supposedly they should be available at first here.
 
Can you compare the sound of the three a bit more in detail, considering Bass (rumble, punch, extension, depth, clean, boomy, dark, muddy) mids (also where is the accent, low mid, mid, upper mid), highs, detail, soundstage.
Thanks

 

[Fluffy Muffinz]

I would really like a pair of Sennheiser momentum 2.0's but do you think they are worth the Australian dollar of $499? 
 
I'm a little shocked that they increased the price by $100 from the original momentums RRP however maybe it's justifiable since they made a lot of good improvements.
 
I'm thinking of waiting till the price drops a bit..it may take longer rather than sooner for that to happen but paying $499 is a lot..well in my eyes anyways. 

 

[Soundofmusic]

 
Will test outside in subways and other crowded city environments tomorrow, and will compare against my goto-pair at work, the velour padded AKG K271S, for some lengthy sessions to check how comfortable they are aswell.

So, I tried these in the city today, here's my take on the BT :
 

1. The only way I can induce skipping while indoors is by putting a concrete wall between the phone and the headphone.
2. Outside, skipping occurs whenever I put my phone in my pocket and cover half of it with my hand. This is completely reproduceable 100% of the time outside.
3. I guess the theory is as others have suggested that inside the signals bounce off walls, and help the weak reciever of the M2's.
4. I noticed the manual says "BT 4.0 + EDR", and found it a bit strange that they specify EDR explicitly when I thought it was a part of the standard BT protocol from BT 3.0 and upwards. I tried to read up on it, and came across this on the BT 3.0 section of the wikipedia BT page:

 
Quote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth#Bluetooth_v3.0_.2B_HS

Enhanced Power Control

Updates the power control feature to remove the open loop power control, and also to clarify ambiguities in power control introduced by the new modulation schemes added for EDR. Enhanced power control removes the ambiguities by specifying the behaviour that is expected. The feature also adds closed loop power control, meaning RSSI filtering can start as the response is received. Additionally, a "go straight to maximum power" request has been introduced. This is expected to deal with the headset link loss issue typically observed when a user puts their phone into a pocket on the opposite side to the headset.

Dunno if it is related, "link loss" is probably not the term for what we're experiencing, just packet loss I guess.
 
Other stuff:
 

1. I find wearing them a bit straining on the ears in the long run, I prefer the velour pads and clamping force of my AKG K271S for long listening sessions. Inside, I get a slight tinnitus even with the ANC off if I wear them without music for half an hour, I also get a bit sweaty around the ears. Outside it seems to be ok.
2. I find they are a bit more prone to wind noise than my other headsets.
3. The ANC works against its purpose for sudden low frequency noise like hitting bumps on the bus, nothing major though.

 

[Giogio]

The only way I can induce skipping while indoors is by putting a concrete wall between the phone and the headphone. Outside, skipping occurs whenever I put my phone in my pocket and cover half of it with my hand.

You should make a radiography of your hand. Maybe it's made of concrete
 
About your interesting research on EDR, if I understand well, they say that it should avoid exactly this problem?

 

[Ahzari]

  Where did you get the On Ear?
They are not available in EU. Supposedly they should be available at first here.
 
Can you compare the sound of the three a bit more in detail, considering Bass (rumble, punch, extension, depth, clean, boomy, dark, muddy) mids (also where is the accent, low mid, mid, upper mid), highs, detail, soundstage.
Thanks

Bass is clean, it does not go as low as the M2 over ear or the H8. I haven't tried the previous on ear wired model so I can't compare but I read that was pretty "U" shaped, I dont know if its the bluetooth/ANC or both but the sound signature didnt give me a direct U feel when listening, seemed more to the neutral side. Bass impact was good again I felt like the Over ear was better and so was the H8. the treble was more present than in the over ear and just as clear, midrange a little recessed - I was missing some detail in songs. Soundstage is good, not expansive, but not direct front row center either (its good but didnt amaze me). I would say that with the treble kick they have more sparkle than the over ear, but I didnt think the bass was as robust as I had read the previous wired version was (again I would give that point to the over ear). Dont know if im going to keep it, its between the H8 and the M2 on ear - they both have their strong points and weak points. Hope this helps.

 

[Soundofmusic]

 
You should make a radiography of your hand. Maybe it's made of concrete

About your interesting research on EDR, if I understand well, they say that it should avoid exactly this problem?

Well, I actually managed to reproduce the phone in pocket + holding hand over issue inside aswell, if I just turn my head slightly to the right in addition.

Disclaimer: This is all pure speculation from my part, and probably unfounded.

Well no, the way i interpret is is that they say a related technology, "Enhanced Power Control", got introduced in BT 3.0 to patch up on some of EDR's initial weaknesses, amongst other things it introduces the _ability_ to perform a "go to max power" request, in addition to the previously available "increase power 1 step" request.

There has to be some cause for the Momentums to have double or triple the battery life (22 hrs claimed) of many competitors, I started thinking if it was somehow related to EDR/agressive reduction of signal power.

I was just wildly speculating that since the example scenario sounded so similar, maybe the M2 doesn't send this "go to max power request" to the source, or maybe hasn't implemented the response to such a request from the source properly (I have no idea in which direction the request goes).

Anyway, it's probably nothing, I just found it odd that the example scenario mentioned was so similar to the one experienced by the M2 users, but it all boils down to the scenario being an indication of the signal not being strong enough, regardless of the cause for that.

As a side note, from what I can from the white paper at https://www.bluetooth.org/docman/handlers/downloaddoc.ashx?doc_id=229737 both EDR and EPC are a part of the core bluetooth protocol from BT 3.0 and upwards. So as far as I can tell, Sennheiser specifying "Bluetooth 4.0 + EDR" on their website is redundant, they could just say "Bluetooth 4.0".


Another interesting thing; when I tried charging the headset at the same time as listening to it wired, the charging created a horrible crosstalk/noise.
There's a whole paper from Intel on USB 3.0 radiation and it causing wireless/2.4GHz crosstalk http://www.usb.org/developers/whitepapers/327216.pdf, and a warning on the Bluetooth wiki:

USB 3.0
 devices, ports and cables have been proven to interfere with Bluetooth devices due to the electronic noise they release falling over the same operating band as Bluetooth. The close proximity of Bluetooth and USB 3.0 devices can result in a drop in throughput or complete connection loss of the Bluetooth device/s connected to a computer.^[85]




Various strategies can be applied to resolve the problem, ranging from simple solutions such as increasing the distance of USB 3.0 devices from any Bluetooth devices or purchasing better shielded USB cables. Other solutions include applying additional shielding to the internal Bluetooth components of a computer.^[86]

I have no idea what type of USB standard the M2's have, I would guess 1.1 or 2.0 for costs sake. But it seems that at least the 2.5mm connector and the usb connector are not adequately shielded. I wouldn't expect it to make a difference for BT link when there is no USB connection.

 

[gr8soundz]

Got the M2 over-ear wireless yesterday.
 
Made some comparisons to the Oppo PM-3 and Sony Z7 here:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/756828/oppo-pm-3-the-portable-planar-impressions/195#post_11406354
 
Happy to confirm they are indeed more comfortable than the original Momentums and still sound great. Going from memory, I believe the soundstage and treble are also improved but the bass is borderline over-boosted (often just right but sometimes a tad too much; you'll rarely need a bass boost with the M2 which imo is a good thing).
 
NFC pairing was tricky. Couldn't get them to pair to my Note 3 at first but persisted to ensure there wasn't some kind of defect. I tested my phone's nfc with another to confirm it wasn't the problem and also tried removing my case (although the phone had no issue pairing over nfc with my other devices while it's case was on). Pairing to the M2 finally worked by sliding the back edge of the phone flat against the NFC logo on the left earcup for about 2 seconds. Hope this helps anyone else having pairing issues.
 
Sound over bluetooth is very good (using the apt-x of my Note 3) but not quite as good as wired. Sound during a phone call was ok. The other person could hear me perfectly but their voice sounded a bit muffled through the earcups perhaps due to the noise cancelling. I haven't thoroughly tested BT range yet and initially had no real dropouts or stuttering but I'll definitely keep tabs on it with so many people reporting issues.
 
The M2s are still easy to drive when wired and maintains good sound quality when amped. I wish Sennheiser included a remote version of the short cable (my short android remote cable for my HD598 was a bit to wide to fit the M2).
 
Passively, I'd say isolation is average among closed headphones but, when the ANC is on they seem to block out any white-like noise around you. So you won't hear the sound of fans spinning or any grinding noises but voices and loud sounds only become muffled. I'm ok with that as I've always believed its safer being able to hear some of whats going on around you. I think the anc works well and it does allow you to keep the volume an tick or two lower while listening to music. It's also not too intrusive on the music and I didn't hear a huge difference in music quality when turning the anc on/off when using the 3.5mm headphone cable. Turning the anc off reminds me of how my ears feel when landing from a flight. Sennheiser could have left the noise cancelling out of the M2 and still had a great wireless headphone but I'm glad they added it and seem to have found a good balance with it (guess they had to since it can't be turned off separately).
 
The M2's are fairly light and more flexible that I anticipated (probably a big part of the added comfort) but they look and feel as premium as the original. The full folding mechanism seems well made, making these much more portable than the first. The long battery life (haven't done a full cycle yet) and 2yr warranty also make the relatively high price more bearable (I got the $395 deal on amazon but that's still double what I paid for the original over-ear Momentum).
 
But the most impressive new thing about the M2 is it's DAC abilities. The sound is even better than using the headphone cable. As I'd hoped, they worked over usb with everything I connected them to:
 
Acer and HP Chromebooks
Asus Windows 8.1 laptop
Galaxy Note 3 (with a micro usb otg adapter; stock software and stock music player)
 
ALL worked with the M2 acting as a usb sound card and the right earcup controls also worked! And none required any drivers or special software.
This was also a bit tricky at first but is now super easy using this method on all devices:
 
1. Turn OFF bluetooth on any nearby devices you've paired to (otherwise, the M2 will connect wirelessly instead of over usb when your power them on).
2. Connect the M2 using the included usb cable (doesn't matter if they're on as they will immediately turn off once connected).
3. Turn on the M2s as you normally would by holding down the power button for 1-2 seconds. The voice will say "power on" then "no device found" and finally says "connected" two seconds later.
4. On Windows select the Momentum M2 as playback device. Chrome OS and android automatically switch to it. Windows shows the sample rate as 16-bit / 48khz which is greyed-out and cannot be changed. Not as high as something like a Dragonfly or HRT usb dac but it's also one less device to buy, carry, and chain together and the sound is still very good (although you're still limited in max volume over usb just like in bluetooth mode).
 
Just turn off and disconnect the headphones when you wanna switch back to internal speakers. The blue light mostly stays solid while connected as if its also charging.
 
This added feature, imo, makes the M2 the most versatile headphone with great sound quality. I believe they even work as a headset/mic for chat and conferencing over usb. Its a shame Sennheiser barely mentions this feature and provides almost no instructions on how to use it. They probably wanted to avoid confusing casual techies but it certainly would've helped with justifying their asking price. As it stands, the M2s are worth the price and may continue to be for a while.

 

[Chip B]

The M2 over the ear BT sound so good and connect so well with my iphone; that i have felt quite confused by a lot of posts and knowing I devices lack APT-X, so the other day i put a ticket into Sennheiser mostly complimentary but wondering why the M2s sound so good despite what seem like technical shortcomings with idevices. Here is the reply to my ticket, of which i am impressed

Good Morning Chip Bayko,

Thank you for contacting the Sennheiser Technical Support Team. The MOMENTUM models were designed specifically for use on portable devices (like cell phones and portable music players) so no amp is required.

From a technical and specific listening standpoint the Apt-X codec does enhance the audio over Bluetooth however manufacturers like Apple do use high quality Bluetooth chipsets so even without Apt-X being used the audio will be great.

Please don't hesitate to reach out with any follow up questions.

Have a great day.

Lachlan Brennan


#TS10
Sennheiser USA Tech Support
Thank you,
Sennheiser Support Team

Hours: Monday - Friday 8:30am - 5:00pm EDT

 

[Giogio]

Here is the reply to my ticket, of which i am impressed

You get impressed very easily, or you have very low expectations, or very bad previous experiences with other companies.
That is a very telegrafic, neutral, unemotional answer. I am not impressed at all.
And, yes, it is not really a secret that not all chips are the same, and there also are different kinds of SBC codecs.
The Bose Soundlink On Ear and the Parrot Zik 2 are not Aptx but sound wonderful.
Now, I wonder, do the Momentum not support also AAC?
Because if they support AAC, then you are NOT using the SBC codec, but the AAC one, which is comparable in quality with the Aptx.