[AppleheadMay]

Not really just an opinion.

Here Tyll agrees with Paul Barton on the issues with measurements from his rig and a lack of a bend in his dummy's ear canal:
https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/canjam-rmaf2017-people-i-love-paul-barton

(Watch the video)

And Jude's measurements on a substantially improved measurement setup offer some outstanding results.

So there is some real data here and beyond "opinion".

FWIW, the Z1R are my favourite closed-back headphones to date and I'm looking forward to hearing the HD820...though I suspect the HD800S will still be preferred due to the advantages of open-backed headphones.

I don't need to watch that video as I nevered cared about measurements anyway, I can decide for myself if I like a pair of phones or not.
But what is interesting is that people here prove headphones they don't like are "bad" with measurements and if others reply that measurements can be off then there's a whole discussion of "measurements are objective" going on.
The other way around though, if measurements prove their beloved headphones are "bad", then all the sudden measurements can be faulty.
Now which is it, can't be both can it?
You have just tried to prove what I have been saying for years. Measurements can be off, they can even be altered by simply changing variables in a test setup.
So that's not real data nor beyond opinion, you just proved that yourself.

And I'm fine with people liking the Z1R but that doesn't mean I have to like it. I won't elaborate much further but there's actually nothing good I can say about them.

 

[MacedonianHero]

I don't need to watch that video as I nevered cared about measurements anyway, I can decide for myself if I like a pair of phones or not.
But what is interesting is that people here prove headphones they don't like are "bad" with measurements and if others reply that measurements can be off then there's a whole discussion of "measurements are objective" going on.
The other way around though, if measurements prove their beloved headphones are "bad", then all the sudden measurements can be faulty.
Now which is it, can't be both can it?
You have just tried to prove what I have been saying for years. Measurements can be off, they can even be altered by simply changing variables in a test setup.
So that's not real data nor beyond opinion, you just proved that yourself.

And I'm fine with people liking the Z1R but that doesn't mean I have to like it. I won't elaborate much further but there's actually nothing good I can say about them.

Of course you can prefer anything...heck, you're a fan of the W5000s (headphones that measure pretty poorly and sound even worse to my ears). But for some to mention bogus measurements due to inadequacies in the setup and use that for fodder is simply disingenuous. My comments were more directed to those folks.I think we are in complete agreement here as this particular case has brought this issue to the forefront. I'm glad to see that Jude and Head-Fi are taking a very serious crack at this and have invested a lot of time and money into improving headphone measurements though.

As stated, we can all prefer anything we prefer, that's what it's all about. At Can Jam at RMAF a few years back, just before they were released, I got to hear the Z1Rs on many setups and loved it...in fact, I bought a pair as soon as they were available.

Back to the HD820s....

 

[Beagle]

Not really just an opinion.

Here Tyll agrees with Paul Barton on the issues with measurements from his rig and a lack of a bend in his dummy's ear canal:
https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/canjam-rmaf2017-people-i-love-paul-barton

(Watch the video)

And Jude's measurements on a substantially improved measurement setup offer some outstanding results.

So there is some real data here and beyond "opinion".

FWIW, the Z1R are my favourite closed-back headphones to date and I'm looking forward to hearing the HD820...though I suspect the HD800S will still be preferred due to the advantages of open-backed headphones.

Good point. Closed headphones never seem to breathe like open ones do, although I often wonder if that is somewhat psychological because we "feel" closed in with a closed can?

 

[AudioThief]

Good point. Closed headphones never seem to breathe like open ones do, although I often wonder if that is somewhat psychological because we "feel" closed in with a closed can?

I always assumed that closed cans add "resonations" that ultimately hurt the overall coherence/clarity of the headphone. Then again, the Fostex TH 900 is the fastest dynamic can I've heard.

 

[MacedonianHero]

I always assumed that closed cans add "resonations" that ultimately hurt the overall coherence/clarity of the headphone. Then again, the Fostex TH 900 is the fastest dynamic can I've heard.

Correct! I'm curious how the folks at Sennheiser worked on this with the HD820 in this regard?

The TH900 suffers from resonances as well...in the bass and the treble region FWIW (I used to own them and still quite like them). The HD800/800S/Utopia are all "faster" dynamic headphones IMO.

 

[AudioThief]

Correct. The TH900 suffers from resonances as well...in the bass and the treble region FWIW (I used to own them and still quite like them). The HD800/800S/Utopia are all "faster" dynamic headphones IMO.

I figured as much. I haven't heard those headphones so wouldn't dare compare, but it makes sense. The TH 900 while fast can also quickly sound a tad bit congested, at least compared to some other high end headphones. Again I believe their closed design is the cause for this.

 

[Beagle]

Correct! I'm curious how the folks at Sennheiser worked on this with the HD820 in this regard?

The TH900 suffers from resonances as well...in the bass and the treble region FWIW (I used to own them and still quite like them). The HD800/800S/Utopia are all "faster" dynamic headphones IMO.

Apparently the gorilla glass reflects the unwanted 'bounceback' into damping materials.

I often wondered if open back headphones also have unique resonances, where the sound that goes out the back is "reheard" and becomes a distortion of its own?

 

[MacedonianHero]

Apparently the gorilla glass reflects the unwanted 'bounceback' into damping materials.

I often wondered if open back headphones also have unique resonances, where the sound that goes out the back is "reheard" and becomes a distortion of its own?

I wonder how much the gorilla glass would help? Though still seems limited next to an open-backed headphone. So unless you need noise isolation, looks like the HD800/800S would be the way to go?

 

[Beagle]

I wonder how much the gorilla glass would help? Though still seems limited next to an open-backed headphone. So unless you need noise isolation, looks like the HD800/800S would be the way to go?

I don't know. Is it more for cosmetics? I also don't know why more manufacturers don't go for semi-open, well damped but not closed designs. Might get the best of both worlds.

 

[AppleheadMay]

Some people do need their phones to be closed, or occasionally closed.
Two points I’m looking out for on the HD820 are:
- How is the bass in relation to the 800S!
= How is the isolation and leakage?
Those will be teh main two factors foe a buyng decision.
I’m sure the rest will be similar enough to the HD800S.
And then it’s waiting until they turn up on Amazon for 600 less or so.

 

[Dulalala]

I wonder how much the gorilla glass would help?

The Gorilla Glass was a cosmetic choice. They could have used anything that was stiff enough to reflect the sound waves.

I don't know. Is it more for cosmetics? I also don't know why more manufacturers don't go for semi-open, well damped but not closed designs. Might get the best of both worlds.

If you were to damp a headphone to the point where no reflection occurs, you'd need enough damping material that it'd basically just end up as a closed headphone. Too much damping material also restricts air flow so there's that too.

 

[swspiers]

Good point. Closed headphones never seem to breathe like open ones do, although I often wonder if that is somewhat psychological because we "feel" closed in with a closed can?

Now THAT is a decent research topic!

 

[pietcux]

The Gorilla Glass was a cosmetic choice. They could have used anything that was stiff enough to reflect the sound waves.



If you were to damp a headphone to the point where no reflection occurs, you'd need enough damping material that it'd basically just end up as a closed headphone. Too much damping material also restricts air flow so there's that to.

That why Sennheiser uses Helmholz resonators instead of damping material. This was first used in the IE800 then in the HD800S. More a sound trap than damping.

 

[ervin192]

The isolation of closed cans surely have psychological effects, and objectively it will also change the atmosphere or the feeling of air pressure and flow around the ears.
And as for the transparency or the stage size of the sound itself, I don't think open or semi-open models are born better; most of them are just more natural in 'atmosphere', as mentioned above. But this kind of nature does please human ears.

 

[EndGameSearch]

I know the answer has to be on this thread but I didn't find it with a quick search. When are these expected to ship in the US?