[Hifiearspeakers]

Yes. Again, well controlled. Bass is a tricky thing. Some like the excessive amounts in the Foster series, for someone who does like bass, it's too much for me. While some feel bass can't be full extended or higher in level than the mids, which to me can mean deficiency. This shows up in a lot of planars, Audeze in particular. The bass extends well, but is flat through the mids, which will
make it seem deficient. The Harman Curve is the inverse of Fletcher Munson (the curve showing the sensitivity of our ears). By increasing bass and sub bass to be higher than mids, the bass is going to sound more correct, since we hear mids better than bass. How much is the issue. What I heard in the HD820 was near perfection. Mids were not recessed, bass was there, extended & without overdoing it. I look at it not just as a part-time audiophile and fan of headphones and bass, but an engineer who wants to hear everything, and in proper amounts to make mix decisions.



I'm sure you can. I tend to listen without EQ on my home studio system or my phone. I want cans to be where I want them without apps and knob twiddling. I want to plug them in anywhere and the sound is similar. I'm familiar with what EQ does with phase, even digital EQ, and while Linear Phase EQ prevents that it introduces transient smearing pre-ringing. That explains my quest in seeking cans that are already there. I had given up on cans being close to this but have found pairs recently that surprise me how close they get. These seem to get all the way there to my ear.



They tried an adjustable closed and the result was a heavy headphone that just didn't sound very good to my ears. Beyerdynamic failed in this regard too. So much has to be done in building it, there's nearly no chance a slider on each cup can make those kinds of changes, and probably not even popping in and out different internals. That would be a Frankenstein of a project, and the attempts I've seen for that have fallen short in my opinion. The TH900 bass is too much for even my ears as a starting point, and would greatly reduce the accuracy that these hold a promise of bringing to engineers who have sworn off headphones for mixing, in making them usable in the studio. Again, we don't want hype, we just want full extension on both ends, with the curve that a ear naturally prefers. This reduces fatigue, and the closer a pro quality reference mix (Steely Dan for example) sounds to perfect on cans, the closer to perfect the cans are. If you hear a boomy bass on a song with a normal amount of pop / rock low end from the late 1970's, it's no go. If the full subby decay is gone upon close listening, it's too rolled off. It's an elusive target but worth it. They pretty much spared no cost to make this what it was. It's the first of a new class, there is no reason to think it won't trickle down to improve other beloved 500 and 600 series cans one day.

Awesome! Thank you! I don’t want crazy amounts of bass added. I just wanted to know that there was at least a little more than the 800S. To my ears, I find the 800S mid bass perfect. It just actually needs sub bass. If the 820 addressed that, then I’m very excited.

 

[exdmd]

Yes. Again, well controlled. Bass is a tricky thing. Some like the excessive amounts in the Foster series, for someone who does like bass, it's too much for me. While some feel bass can't be full extended or higher in level than the mids, which to me can mean deficiency. This shows up in a lot of planars, Audeze in particular. The bass extends well, but is flat through the mids, which will
make it seem deficient. The Harman Curve is the inverse of Fletcher Munson (the curve showing the sensitivity of our ears). By increasing bass and sub bass to be higher than mids, the bass is going to sound more correct, since we hear mids better than bass. How much is the issue. What I heard in the HD820 was near perfection. Mids were not recessed, bass was there, extended & without overdoing it. I look at it not just as a part-time audiophile and fan of headphones and bass, but an engineer who wants to hear everything, and in proper amounts to make mix decisions.



I'm sure you can. I tend to listen without EQ on my home studio system or my phone. I want cans to be where I want them without apps and knob twiddling. I want to plug them in anywhere and the sound is similar. I'm familiar with what EQ does with phase, even digital EQ, and while Linear Phase EQ prevents that it introduces transient smearing pre-ringing. That explains my quest in seeking cans that are already there. I had given up on cans being close to this but have found pairs recently that surprise me how close they get. These seem to get all the way there to my ear.



They tried an adjustable closed and the result was a heavy headphone that just didn't sound very good to my ears. Beyerdynamic failed in this regard too. So much has to be done in building it, there's nearly no chance a slider on each cup can make those kinds of changes, and probably not even popping in and out different internals. That would be a Frankenstein of a project, and the attempts I've seen for that have fallen short in my opinion. The TH900 bass is too much for even my ears as a starting point, and would greatly reduce the accuracy that these hold a promise of bringing to engineers who have sworn off headphones for mixing, in making them usable in the studio. Again, we don't want hype, we just want full extension on both ends, with the curve that a ear naturally prefers. This reduces fatigue, and the closer a pro quality reference mix (Steely Dan for example) sounds to perfect on cans, the closer to perfect the cans are. If you hear a boomy bass on a song with a normal amount of pop / rock low end from the late 1970's, it's no go. If the full subby decay is gone upon close listening, it's too rolled off. It's an elusive target but worth it. They pretty much spared no cost to make this what it was. It's the first of a new class, there is no reason to think it won't trickle down to improve other beloved 500 and 600 series cans one day.

I am very comfortable with the HD800S and finally have a Loki coming in this week after Schiit caught up with backlog of orders. After using for a few days will post impressions.

 

[Whazzzup]

Loki or any eq can only effect tone or perception of frequencies. It does not or could not make a can sound like another can. A good parametric equalizer can help one adjust to their preferences.

Im interested of non equalized impressions of 820 versus 800S or on its own.

 

[musicday]

I would like to use HD820 with the Smyth Realiser A16, hopefully it will be a good headphone as in synergy. Will there be real leather earpads?
Maybe Dekoni?

 

[franz12]

I had the chance to experience the HD820 at CanJam NYC, and it sounded very promising! I even had the chance to talk with Axel himself one on one and it was great! He even thanked me for spending so much money on his headphones! LOL!

I've owned my current HD800 (2nd pair - sold the first) for 2 years now, and I EQ the hell out of them. Why? Simple - because they have a treble peak that gets tiresome, and they just don't make enough bass for rock music. BUT, the drivers themselves are actually CAPABLE of quite a lot of bass, but somehow it gets lost. I've been trying to figure out why for months now, and then back in January it hit me! It's because the HP is SO open - the space behind AND in front of the driver - that it never has a chance to build any type of pressure, and offer any sort of real impact. And THAT is what's missing from the HD800 for me - IMPACT/PRESSURE/SLAM. I realize now the space this little speaker is in is too big; what's wrong with the HD800 for me is that it's so open. The good news is apparently I was correct, and Mr. Grell felt he could close it up if he thought of it as a speaker in a room! THIS IS AWESOME!!

SENNHEISER - I have 3 requests:
1 - MORE BASS. It would be great if you could tune it to have TH900 bass! Or even IE800 bass!
2 - It would be really awesome if the user was able to adjust those internal ports to alter bass levels without having to hack the HP and void the warranty......
3 - The price is brutal. I understand the market is telling you to price $2399USD, but it's out of control. If it were $1995 MAX, I'd preorder it now. Even $1995 is insane, but I'd find a way to deal with it. I can't do $2400 but that's my problem I guess.

Thank you for being so gracious at canjam!


At first, Axel tried just sealing the back of the HD 800 S so it would be a lower cost, back when he was younger and blissfully naïve. Unfortunately, the sound was... not good, and a more complex solution was needed.

Axel gave a seminar discussing the development process on Sunday, explaining the sound didn’t start to approach flagship-levels until the team hit upon the idea of looking at it as an open headphone in a small room. Make that room smaller and smaller, negate the effects, and massage the development of pads, comfort and weight, an idea with paper filters that were eventually discarded, a stiff “lens” to redirect sound resonance towards absorbers to really try and keep the “open” sound, and also playing with different bass ports to really enhance the sub-bass while also creating a dip around 100 Hz so that the bass wouldn’t blur the mid details. The team even considered how the design could compensate for glasses frames without losing bass. About 5 years later, we’re like 95% towards our target and will be at 100% upon release this summer!

You can always EQ if you want more bass. But at this price range, anything but sticking to neutral frequency responses would be considered as a failure by many audiophiles.

Senn knows what they are doing. You can't satisfy every consumer. The best place to begin with is to target neutrality. From there, individual consumers will fine tune their cans to serve for their individual tastes.

 

[hypnos1]

Yes. Again, well controlled. Bass is a tricky thing. Some like the excessive amounts in the Foster series, for someone who does like bass, it's too much for me. While some feel bass can't be full extended or higher in level than the mids, which to me can mean deficiency. This shows up in a lot of planars, Audeze in particular. The bass extends well, but is flat through the mids, which will
make it seem deficient. The Harman Curve is the inverse of Fletcher Munson (the curve showing the sensitivity of our ears). By increasing bass and sub bass to be higher than mids, the bass is going to sound more correct, since we hear mids better than bass. How much is the issue. What I heard in the HD820 was near perfection. Mids were not recessed, bass was there, extended & without overdoing it. I look at it not just as a part-time audiophile and fan of headphones and bass, but an engineer who wants to hear everything, and in proper amounts to make mix decisions.



I'm sure you can. I tend to listen without EQ on my home studio system or my phone. I want cans to be where I want them without apps and knob twiddling. I want to plug them in anywhere and the sound is similar. I'm familiar with what EQ does with phase, even digital EQ, and while Linear Phase EQ prevents that it introduces transient smearing pre-ringing. That explains my quest in seeking cans that are already there. I had given up on cans being close to this but have found pairs recently that surprise me how close they get. These seem to get all the way there to my ear.



They tried an adjustable closed and the result was a heavy headphone that just didn't sound very good to my ears. Beyerdynamic failed in this regard too. So much has to be done in building it, there's nearly no chance a slider on each cup can make those kinds of changes, and probably not even popping in and out different internals. That would be a Frankenstein of a project, and the attempts I've seen for that have fallen short in my opinion. The TH900 bass is too much for even my ears as a starting point, and would greatly reduce the accuracy that these hold a promise of bringing to engineers who have sworn off headphones for mixing, in making them usable in the studio. Again, we don't want hype, we just want full extension on both ends, with the curve that a ear naturally prefers. This reduces fatigue, and the closer a pro quality reference mix (Steely Dan for example) sounds to perfect on cans, the closer to perfect the cans are. If you hear a boomy bass on a song with a normal amount of pop / rock low end from the late 1970's, it's no go. If the full subby decay is gone upon close listening, it's too rolled off. It's an elusive target but worth it. They pretty much spared no cost to make this what it was. It's the first of a new class, there is no reason to think it won't trickle down to improve other beloved 500 and 600 series cans one day.

This must be one of the best arguments I have yet seen in favour of the upcoming HD820...am now more sorely tempted than ever to raid the (dwindling, thanks to this hobby!) savings!! But as said £££ are losing value all the time, I regard it more as money well spent...need good closed cans!

 

[up late]

Well it’s not 4000$ and really what you are saying is that you are not in the market for a 3500$ can, unless of course after listening you can justify it.
No doubt owning hd800S makes it difficult to justify any purchase other than truly complimentary like my la900. I checked out susvara and at a 30% disc I couldn’t justify it visa vie gaining ground on my desk space. Course that’s just me susvara was very nice. Utopia I wouldn’t even listen too, why bother....
Concerning hd820 if it cuts leakage down that’s a tremendous relief for family members who can’t seperate through rooms and doors, and seriously a closed back 820 has my juices flowing you just know it’s going to be great.

what do you mean by that?

 

[forestitalia]

If cost less than 3k doesn'

It's not just a piece of Gorilla Glass, it is uniquely shaped to be convex in the interior, for diffraction. Further, there is special internal porting and chamber technology that reduces resonance, while giving a larger area for bass standing waves to develop and increase perceived bass without having to mess with an already great driver. The headband seems more comfortable and durable as do their pads. From what I can remember, there are other design changes inside with the goal of being acoustically transparent as possible. Do I wish they'd cost less? Yes. Still, having headphones with the same quality of mids and highs as the open version, with the bass many listeners have waited for, that does not bleed into the mids or add noticeable distortion, boominess or other issues is an achievement. If it gives 95% or more of the open, wide sound of the HD800s, in a closed can, mission accomplished. Many studios will be happy about this.

Mmm, it's sounds like a tweak, just very expensive even if more elaborate than 555 vs 595, same stuff

 

[Whazzzup]

what do you mean by that?

I psyched my self out of the potential 4 g purchase because of enjoying hd800S. Why tempt fate in this regard.

 

[up late]

thanks for clarifying. that's the antithesis of typical audiophile behaviour, which borders on commendable.

 

[Mark Up]

now more sorely tempted than ever to raid the (dwindling, thanks to this hobby!) savings!

I would say maybe wait for it to trickle down. Senn must be well aware of a multitude of HD650 fans who would like a closed option with a lot more sub bass and a touch more treble. There is also value in waiting. Should these take off in sales no doubt its supply line will be enhanced and the price may drop. Not to mention open box / used to follow. Be patient, I know it's not easy.

Mmm, it's sounds like a tweak, just very expensive even if more elaborate than 555 vs 595, same stuff

Nah. The 500 series closed vs. open are just a few parts. I read up and saw images of the tech online that went into these. The R&D portion probably took a year or years, then the building of the machines to get that final product. They aren't massively produced in batches of hundreds of thousands, and they're not hand built. A lot of investment up front with potential to fail. Having heard how much worse or certainly not better than their past efforts at closed were, it's always been their weak point especially trying to turn open cans closed. They really went for it this time.

 

[hypnos1]

I would say maybe wait for it to trickle down. Senn must be well aware of a multitude of HD650 fans who would like a closed option with a lot more sub bass and a touch more treble. There is also value in waiting. Should these take off in sales no doubt its supply line will be enhanced and the price may drop. Not to mention open box / used to follow. Be patient, I know it's not easy.

I hear you, Mark Up...and this is the sensible approach!

But I have reached an age (with the unexpected/unwanted!) where waiting is less attractive, and I personally want nothing to do with an HD650 'closed' option (as I personally find these cans no match for my Beyer T1s - in my system, at least...). So things are not so simple!!

 

[pietcux]

If the HD650 is not good for you your amp must be the wrong one, lol

 

[hypnos1]

If the HD650 is not good for you your amp must be the wrong one, lol

Have heard this one before, pietcux!...but I've tried these with several really good amps - both tubed and SS - for extended times, and my T1s (and others' HD800/800S) were in another league lol!...despite my wanting it to be otherwise. But as usual, YMMV!...

 

[pietcux]

Have heard this one before, pietcux!...but I've tried these with several really good amps - both tubed and SS - for extended times, and my T1s (and others' HD800/800S) were in another league lol!...despite my wanting it to be otherwise. But as usual, YMMV!...

I was joking, sorry!