[wnmnkh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidhunternyc /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks Geek for taking the opening post at face value and responding to it with considered thought. Your sincerity is greatly appreciated. Obviously, if I were to retort to your findings, I can go through each point of yours and respond with, "but" or "what if." One thing is for sure; it is clear that our conceptions are purely relative. It begs the question; do objects communicate relatively or do they communicate in absolute terms? As we all know, nothing is absolute. Yet, being the obsessive compulsive personality I am, I refuse to believe, under all reason, that what I have to say, or feel, or think about an object is relative. I am an absolutist. I am a fool, I know. I guess this is what is meant by, "if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you."

Then you should make more posts other than HD800 related.


I don't see you post single negative comment on Grado design other than called it "classic". As seen original HP-2 frame in person and owned various grado including PS1000 and HP1000, I confess that I see them as utter failure of both design AND utility in many aspects, let alone "perfect", regardless of the price range.


And I am not alone with this view.



You are nothing more than contradiction and it is so evident that your only concern is HD800, which ironically are actually one of few phones that have very few design flaws, compared to AT, Grado and many others.

 

[melomaniac]

Great, I like the direction of this thread (though not the grammar/spelling: e.g. it's "have you ever WORN"), especially the comparison of headphone materials to tennis racket technology (maybe only because I've started lessons, but also because it drives home some points about comfort, design, function, that can be summarized in the term ergonomics). And I'm sure many DIY people wish some headphones were as easy to tune as rackets are to restring. But in the end, where these two kinds of mass-produced consumer good diverge is not in the question of using the latest carbon fiber etc, or whether people fall for JMoney pads (buyer beware), or whether or not exotic woods only add value or actually add to the sound quality - what the Braun design principles reminded me of is that design is inherently historical. Designers are unfortunately sometimes oblivious about the history of design, but what is celebrated as iconic, great design is (for me at least) always also a marker of its historical context. In short, it comes down to whether or not hedonic pricing applies for highly designed items like headphones: many would argue, I think, that a house bought a decade ago is now comparable with new houses on the market, but a headphone bought ten years ago might or might not be considered comparable to one bought today. It's not so much whether or not it "still works" but how it works in its current context.

 

[Silenced]

David, I love design and I was just fascinated by your thread. So would you say that painted plastic is fine as long as it solid colour as opposed to faux metallic finish(this is not in reference to the hd800 because at that price it should be something special.)?

 

[davidhunternyc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silenced /img/forum/go_quote.gif David, I love design and I was just fascinated by your thread. So would you say that painted plastic is fine as long as it solid colour as opposed to faux metallic finish (This is not in reference to the hd800 because at that price it should be something special.)?

In short, yes. Generally, faux metallic finishes are disingenuous, but in the best of applications, faux metallic finishes can convey a certain kind of kitsch. In fashion, a faux metallic leather purse by Gucci, for instance, can have a certain chic quality. I feel though, that industrial design is a horse of a different color and this is where the HD800 fits in.

By the way, Silenced, forget about what I think. What do you think?

Quote:

Originally Posted by immtbiker /img/forum/go_quote.gif I wonder if people that agree with David's point of view, would think the same thing if Stax painted their plastic 303 and 404 series silver, instead of brown?

I also liked the question above about Stax headphones. I doubt that the design would work if the brown plastic was changed to silver. On the other hand, I think a great designer could make it work; there is silver and there is silver, if you know what I mean. The devil is in the details. The problem with the HD800, is not only is it spray-painted silver plastic, but there is so much of it. Even if the HD800 wasn't spray-painted silver, I probably would still be opposed to the plastic that was used. It doesn't feel strong, stable, hefty, and it just doesn't have a nice hand (feel). Would I think this way, if the plastic were bakelite or ABS for instance? I don't know. Earlier in this thread I quoted a phrase (not my own) that, "a square foot of blue is bluer than a square inch of blue." So true. So even though I am not opposed to plastic as an absolute, I am still opposed to so much plastic absolutely... in the HD800.

 

[jaycalgary]

So eventually the paint is going to wear off and they will look like the have whitish spots?
If that is so then it will be a disappointment to the ones that pay the kind of money they are asking for these phones. It will probably be a big plus in the future for people looking for them on the 2nd hand market. These headphones are so hyped its hard to find much honesty on here about them. I puked in my mouth a bit when I saw "Geek"s comparison to "10 Design Rules of Dieter Rams from Braun in the 60's"

 

[artforme]

So are you saying you don't like acid wash jeans? How about mineral wash?

I like this thread though, very cool.

 

[davidhunternyc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by artforme /img/forum/go_quote.gif So are you saying you don't like acid wash jeans? How about mineral wash? I like this thread though, very cool.

That is so funny. You are the first to bring up the reference to acid-washed jeans in my title. I was being quite literal with my comparison to the HD800. I am not sure how many people here remember the prevalence of acid-washed jeans in the 80's, but by the 90's, acid-washed jeans were universally scorned upon. The process of acid washing jeans used chemicals, stripping off the color of the top layer, leaving the white fabric exposed. The color remained in the lower layers of the material, giving it a faded look. Acid washing could be done overall or made to look splotchy or streaky. What became so objectionable about acid-washed jeans is that denim became something that it wasn't. Visually, the acid came first, the denim came second. It was garish looking and, thankfully, this process fell out of favor. Since then, the chemical process of fading jeans has evolved and looks far more natural. I still prefer to buy my denim made on a hand loom and dyed with real indigo. Fading comes naturally, of course.

 

[artforme]

Your thoughts on interesting design are exactly correct. That's one of the reasons why I find the Denon D5000 and D7000 so attractive aesthetically, as there seems to be little material pretending to be another. I don't mind plastic when it's being plastic, like a white macbook, or a black remote control.

But I always enjoy the aesthetics of taking something that was previously harsh and ugly, and making it beautiful again through an homage. Almost with a 'post-modern' mindset.

I mentioned 'mineral-wash', because American Apparel has a pair of jeans that look great, and it's a bit of a throw back to acid wash, but much more tastefully done, with a post-acidwash aesthetic. So maybe in 15 years a headphone will homage to the HD800 in a subtle manor, and it will be more aesthetically pleasing. Mineral Wash Stretch Bull Denim Slim Slack | Pants | Shop American Apparel

 

[artforme]

One more thing, while were on the subject of design. I feel that Ultrasone ruins all of their headphones aesthetically by placing that large ugly logo on each side of the phone. Besides the logo itself being ugly, having a large silver sticker of any branding is just ugly in its self. I feel like Ultrasone must hire some decent designers, but no matter how good the base design is, it always gets ruined by the huge ultrasone branding, along with the small s-logic branding.

 

[davidhunternyc]

I understand what you are saying about most of the Ultrasone headphones, but have you seen the Edition 8? Though it isn't perfect, it certainly is an improvement over their previous designs. Look ma, no plastic!

 

[Mink]

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidhunternyc /img/forum/go_quote.gif If there's one thing that makes me vomit in my mouth, it's plastic (gadgets) painted silver.

I agree with everything you wrote.

A proof of ugly:

 

[jyle_t]

On picture, the Edition 8 looks amazing. Up close, you'll find it only classy at the cups and the thick headband. The cable and the headband adjuster portion looks and feels cheap. Doesn't really match well aesthetically. Looks wise the ESW10 is more consistent, from headband to 3.5mm connector.

This is an improvement in design over the other Ultrasones tho.

 

[rocketman4274]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shirukii /img/forum/go_quote.gif While your point stands for the headphones, the use of plastics for car interiors has little to do with saving weight. Weight on a car is not a bad thing, in fact, car weight trends have been up wards since the start of production for multiple reasons. In fact, some car makers make the bases out of thick plated steel to increase weight and bring the center of gravity of the car down. The only reason you would want to reduce the weight of the interior of your car is so that you can put a heavier engine in and increase the power. Anyways, apologies for the tangent, just wanted to clear up a misconception.

Shiruki having worked in the auto manufacturing business for twenty five years,my father for thirty nine,I can assure you that plastic IS used to save weight.The reason?The ridiculous gas mileage figures that the federal government mandates.All manufactures have to meet a corporate mileage figure set by uncle sam.This is an average milage figure of all vehicles except pickup trucks as they have more liberal gas and emission regulations than cars.It goes up every so many years.This and emission levels set by c.a.r.b.(Califonia Air Research Board)is one of the main reasons the cost of automobiles is so high.California has the strictest requirements of all states and all the regulations trickle down from them.All cars made for California have different emission equipment,even special decals under the hood(the ones you see above your head when you lift the hood)than all the rest.It can lead to a big fine if a car is shipped with the wrong or a missing emission decal,but all tht stuff is inspected several times durring the assembly process.Evan the unleaded fuel only on the inside of the gas filler cover.So the next time you see the cheap plastic in your car thank Uncle Sam for it as the less weight means better fuel mileage.I am willing to bet plastic on headphones is for weight and cost reduction.

 

[hawat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jyle_t /img/forum/go_quote.gif On picture, the Edition 8 looks amazing. Up close, you'll find it only classy at the cups and the thick headband. The cable and the headband adjuster portion looks and feels cheap. Doesn't really match well aesthetically. Looks wise the ESW10 is more consistent, from headband to 3.5mm connector. This is an improvement in design over the other Ultrasones tho.

Sorry but I have owned both and edition 8 > esw10. How does the adjuster feels cheap? its metal.
For the cable I have no problem with it and they actually have an attached velcro strap to keep it tied. Unfortunately I' m not convinced by their sound so to me they did a step forward in build and one backward in sound.

 

[oqvist]

I think he means estetically. He would rather have a thick cable with some kevlar or something nice to touch on or look at correct?. the cable is as flexible as any since it´s made for portable use. When I am at home I would love to play with the DX 1000 cable on my ED 8 for surely though but it would just be a stupid design decision to spend money on good locking cables that will show wear when use for portable use anyway. Then I take maximum flexibility.

I am not the one to judge the looks of headphone. If they sound good they get so beatiful. Even the butt ugly DX 1000 lol