[aimlink]

Quote:

1400$ is fine of course. But not just for sound. If the competitors are using metal and wood, Senn looks cheap by comparison.  

All a matter of perception and a very personal one.  Nothing absolute.
 
After handling the HD800's and listening to them over an extended period, I had to eat my words as a vocal skeptic about the HD800's worth.  I'm genuinely happy I bought them and they do seem at least as durable as any of my other cans made of wood and/or metal.
 
Your statement above seems so empty and arbitrarily absolute IMO.  'Looks' or 'seems' cheap are the key words there.  The question is, are they really cheap in comparison and I would gladly contest that.  With a handbag, I'd go with focus on the materials used to assess worth.  With a headphone, I'd go for the sound and the engineering involved to produce the sound which is where the value genuinely lies.  A focus on materials, IMO, is an aberration of priorities.  Yes, I do feel they are dorky in appearance, but what does that genuinely have to do with ultimate value, especially while handling them and have them on my head listening?
 
What value has been arbitrarily placed on wood or metal that we now wish to perpetuate and claim to persist no matter the application of the material? 

  It's this common outlook that has made Senn perhaps unwisely decide to fake the metallic appearance.  For the purist, this seems to be a sin that they cannot or will not see beyond?  If it's about this one point, then I have no disagreement with how a person may feel.  However, I do feel inclined as I'm doing now, to disagree with value statements based on material choices used in the HD800's production.

 

[SP Wild]

You may think that the HD800 looks flimsy from pictures, when I had it in my hand, I was startled at how refined and solid it actually is compared to photo's - no doubt on a higher manufacturing tolerance level than the HD650.

 

[UtzY]

Quote:

The headband is very similar to my bicycle saddle which is carbon fibre wrapped in leather. When I first held them in 2003, I was a carbon fibre newbie and thought: why, there's no latticing, it surely can't be carbon fibre! Tap it - carbon fibre and plastic sound very different. It is carbon fibre. A lot of companies stake their honour on it too: just take a look at HeadRoom's HD600 page and look for 'carbon fibre'.
 
Carbon fibre is a rage now, but it wasn't always that way, especially when the HD600 came out. Then it wasn't even that much lighter than metal. Hell, carbon fibre bicycles from 2000-2003 that were touted as 'light and rigid' were loopy, heavy messes that my aluminium frame outdid for eveything. Carbon fibre isn't a go a head word for 'good'; it is simply another material used in lots of things.
 
Saying all that, I'd prefer carbon fibre to plastic in expensive products like headphones. It isn't exclusively stronger than plastic in all situations, but it looks nicer, feels nicer, and after plopping the better part of a month's salary (yep) on a pair of Evil-Robot insignia-looking headphones, it helps the pain just that last fraction of a laser beam.

I don't have a broken headband of HD6x0 (But I assure you that it is not carbon fibre even if it's so CHEAP as you are trying to tell.) 1. Carbon fibre can be melted by matches? 
2. I think all this confusion started by the colour of HD600, trying to describe that, not material properties...If you will lend me your HD6x0  I can prove it on 2-3 tests that is NOT carbon fibre, not even graphite...
 

 

[Skylab]

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Personally, I think a matte or gloss black finish on the plastic parts would have been more tasteful than silver. Metalized plastic feels like cheap electronic junk -- the only thing worse is the bad quality moldings from the dollar store.
.

I agree - I don't care that it's plastic - I just wish it were BLACK plastic

 

[Roger Strummer]

Whether the 6x0 is carbon fiber (which I personally don't know) or not is not very important, although it still strikes me as odd as to no mention whatsoever in Senn's literature. But saying that the 800 was a step backwards talking about just any physical attribute of the shell is doubtful at best, once you hold both and use them you can see that the 800 have been engineered much better.

 

[K_19]

Quote:

When will you be here? I go to Yongsan quite regularly. I am also from Toronto. If an expat like me would tickle your fancy, I'd love to give you my fingers. I'll be in Toronto and Halifax for 3 weeks, but come back on the 29th - shall we resume this Cresyn chat then?
 
Till then, Senn and the sudden onrush of Japanese styling.

 
YGPM, to not stray too off topic from this thread. 

 
As for the HD800, I do agree with Skylab that it would have looked much better in black/greyish plastic.  Silver paint isn't much to my liking either, but otherwise I'm perfectly satisfied with the build of these headphones.
 

 

[shigzeo]

^^ That of course, is fine. If their sound hits the mark and the headphone can be judged on that alone, then all the best to them and their space-faring gods. I know for sure that I could not relax with something cloven from the same inspirational material as that Skull Candy employees used to re-create a Jar-jar Binks muppet head.
 
I am very glad that you disagree with me - the internet would be worthless without banter. How bout this: if there were two versions at the same price, one in plastic and one in something else - carbon fibre, or metal, for instance.. which would you choose? They looked the same from a distance, but up close, you notice that one has sharp, hard edges that could dent Shrek's head, and the other you can scratch with a jagged fingernail.
 
Naturally, the metal/wood one is heavier. The Carbon one is more brittle, but speaks loads to tech fans. The plastic one stretches, is light, and reasonably tough. That's it. I think the choice between them speaks volumes about each person. Everyone has tolerances. I won't make judgements as that is pointless, but I'd go for the metal one at the same price. I'd still go for the metal one at a 100$ premium, but I'd not pay more than that. I would probably pass up the carbon one for various reasons, but not even think of the plastic one. 
 
I've admired other expensive high end plastic headphones: Ultrasone ED9, for instance. It is a wonderful headphone - sounds great (in an Ultrasone way), looks reasonable, and feels pretty good (a bit too big for my head). But again, I'd not plunk that much money for a plastic headphone, no matter the sound. And, that is fine. It has less to do with arbitrariness and more to do with experience. 
 
If plastics had been used in quality products from their inception rather than creeping up from Kinder Surprise and cheap fans, it might be different. If I didn't have to treat every plastic thing I've ever owned with surgical care - this would be a different conversation.
 
Again, I belong to a group of people who considers the package sound AND everything else, not sound only. It is the same thing with anything I buy. If I care, I get something that I know will last, no matter the fact that the thing I want is about something else. I've had my plastic camera lens days; I wanted bang for the buck and that's what I got.
 
Good bokeh, good image stabilisation - good lens. But the lens focuses more slowly, bends at long focal lengths, and well, feels second-rate. But, that lens was only 700$. A similar lens in metal (albeit a professional lens) costs 1700-2000$. 
 
I feel very strongly that Senn took a step back in design (and that word doesn't mean just looks, it means engineering and focus on craftsmanship) in the HD800. Admittedly, I don't own it. I've demoed it and really liked the razor-sharp sound. But, I would not buy it. I am glad you love it - if it were built to the standard set by its price, I might consider it (later as I work on a pretty small stipend).

 

[SP Wild]

The previous BMW M3 CSL had real carbon fibre all over the interior, the entire door trim was carbon fibre and you could break it by accident easily.  I don't know if the HD650 is carbon fibre or not.  Why would you paint over the carbon fibre weave - you'd simply lay clear coats over the it to advertise the fact that it is.  However, for its plastic content and strength, I am looking and comparing now, it is remarkably light.  The K701's are heavier - when they look lighter,  The HD595 is also just as light, but it is truly weak, flimsy plastic.
 
Whatever the HD650 is made of, It is remarkably strong for its weight and density - the adjusting band is made of aluminium and one does not generally combine metal and plastic in moving wear and tear items.  The PX100s do as well - but the cap that retains the aluminium adjuster keeps popping off from mine and I always have to keep clipping it back on to restore the detents.  I wonder if any other can combines a metal slider inside a plastic housing?

 

[davidhunternyc]

Quote:

Personally, I think a matte or gloss black finish on the plastic parts would have been more tasteful than silver. Metalized plastic feels like cheap electronic junk -- the only thing worse is the bad quality moldings from the dollar store.

If Sennheiser chose to finish the HD800 in black (or even gray for that matter), they could've molded the color into the Leona plastic. This would have solved the problem of the chipping silver paint, which others have noted here. By finishing the plastic with silver paint after the molding process, the paint can have higher concentrated pigment levels. This not only covers up the qualities of the plastic but creates the problems noted above.

 

[UtzY]

Quote:

The previous BMW M3 CSL had real carbon fibre all over the interior, the entire door trim was carbon fibre and you could break it by accident easily.  I don't know if the HD650 is carbon fibre or not.  Why would you paint over the carbon fibre weave - you'd simply lay clear coats over the it to advertise the fact that it is.  However, for its plastic content and strength, I am looking and comparing now, it is remarkably light.  The K701's are heavier - when they look lighter,  The HD595 is also just as light, but it is truly weak, flimsy plastic.
 
Whatever the HD650 is made of, It is a very lightweight and strong material - the adjusting band is made of aluminium and one does not generally combine metal and plastic in moving wear and tear items.  The PX100s do as well - but the cap that retains the aluminium adjuster keeps popping off from mine and I always have to keep clipping it back on to restore the detents.  I wonder if any other can combines a metal slider inside a plastic housing?

The adjusting band is not aluminium, it is attracted by an magnet (maybe contains aluminium, but it is not aluminium... maybe a rare and EXPENSIVE alloy  

 ) Another can that combines a metal slider inside a plastic housing is... HD800?

 

[shigzeo]

Carbon fibre doesn't have to be woven. It comes that way most often, especially since it looks great, but a lot of carbon fibre is laid out much differently. Again, my bicycle saddle is made of carbon, but it looks, for all intents and purposes, like plastic. There are so many different fibre spec out there that it is impossible to really grab onto one and call it the Carbon Fibre Avatar. Nope, some are cheap-ash things. I imagine the HD600-650 belong to that group.
 
I have taken the HD600 apart - it is okay, but its parts are NOT favourable to doing that too often. They rub each other with juvenile vigour and don't give as much where they should. I'd love a REAL modular design in any of Senn's high end headphones, something with big screws, arched metal supports, and springy headband tongues. Of course, that would mean that Beyerdynamic would lose much of its toot engine, but who really cares. 

 

[SP Wild]

It is steel if it is attracted by magnets, they wouldn't use exotic alloys for this purpose.  Hard to tell with the black paint on it.  From memory I think I was quite surprised that the 800 slider was plastic - or was it my imagination?

 

[SP Wild]

 
Quote:

Carbon fibre doesn't have to be woven. It comes that way most often, especially since it looks great, but a lot of carbon fibre is laid out much differently. Again, my bicycle saddle is made of carbon, but it looks, for all intents and purposes, like plastic. There are so many different fibre spec out there that it is impossible to really grab onto one and call it the Carbon Fibre Avatar. Nope, some are cheap-ash things. I imagine the HD600-650 belong to that group.
 
I have taken the HD600 apart - it is okay, but its parts are NOT favourable to doing that too often. They rub each other with juvenile vigour and don't give as much where they should. I'd love a REAL modular design in any of Senn's high end headphones, something with big screws, arched metal supports, and springy headband tongues. Of course, that would mean that Beyerdynamic would lose much of its toot engine, but who really cares. 

I'll take your word for it.  The HD650 is not like any plastic I've encountered,  I've encountered heaps when stripping out interiors and one has to be very carful with plastic as not break or scratch it.  I would love for car interiors to be made from the "plastic" in HD650.

 

[Nebby]

How about the plastic those car interior panel clips are made of? They break if you even look at them wrong!

 

[SP Wild]

You can destroy a few of these clips and the panel will still hang on - there are still screws to bolt them down...just spread the load and swap some of the clips around.