[Sorrodje]

Here is a link to quite an extensive review (in polish). 

http://hifiphilosophy.com/recenzja-sennheiser-hd-800-s/?caly-artykul=1

Here is a translated list of pros and cons vs. the classic:

Advantages

1. Better for amplifiers.
   
2. Easier to obtain the highest class, fully open treble.
   
3. Smoother (in a good way) sound.
   
4. Greater clarity and transparency.
   
5. Premium quality vocals.
   
6. Minimally faster, more focused and taut bass.
   
7. Beautiful sound in the sense of its uniqueness and high culture.
   
8. Soft yet attractive look deep black with silver accents.
   
9. Balancedcable included.
   
10. New absorber.
    
11.  
    

Disadvantages and reservations

1. You can not buy without a balanced cable, causing a higher price.
   
2. The change is relatively small.
   

In general, it tracks with what most people are saying except for "greater clarity and transparency". It's also noteworthy that the reviewer is also finding that the S is less amp picky than older bro.

That's definitely match my own impressions. I'm currently writing my review in french. Maybe i'll translate it in english. I'll ask Shabta to help.

 

[yugas]

Mine arrived 3 days ago, directly upgrade from the HD800. To me this is just a logical and very safe improvement over the already great HD800.
My desktop amp is the Violectric V100 (Axel the HD800 designer liked and used this amp for what I read), but I also have some good DAPs, like the Astell&Kern AK320.
First things that I've noticed:
 
-Easier to drive, I would say about a 20-25% on real performance to get the same SPL.
-Not great but more enjoyable connected to a good DAP headphone output, you don't get the accentuated treble that you have when the HD800 is not properly drive. From this point it takes something of the HD650 (saving the big distances)
-Much better sub-bass extension and bass weight in general.
-Smoother and better highs (talking about the transition with the high-mids)
-It looks better from my humble point of view.
 
Overall I can say that I'm quite happy with the upgrade, and for me it worth the money, for sure... Now I have coming an OTL amp, the Maestral III by Had Audiolab, I think it could be a killer combo, as OTL designs works with the HD800.

 

[sheldaze]

  Thanks for your early impressions. The vahalla 2, while not TOTL is pretty amazingly simpatico with the HD800 and S. So I think your impressions on the rig are/will be pretty representative.
 
Do you think you could do a side by side with the HEK? I wrote something about it in my review, but 1) I didn't have them to listen to side by side 2) I have trouble with heavy headphones (literally a pain in the neck) so that probably colors my view. I liked the HEK but I didn't love it, especially for 3k and the smoothing over details. But it would be really good to hear what someone thinks who likes the HEK and can do a side by side.
 
Anyway, looking forward to hearing more!

Sure!
 
I was doing a few other listening tests in preparations for what I'm expecting at an upcoming meet. And funny - I never truly thought of the HEK's weight. Also, I spend a lot of time resting my head when I'm listening to these. Think of it as head on a pillow or arm-rest or some other relaxing kind of listening when I'm using these headphones 

 
The first amplifier I would use, which I think is at least partially capable of driving both the HEK (needs current) and HD 800 S (wants voltage) is my Asgard 2. In this setup, I ran iTunes > optical > Bifrost 4490 > Asgard 2. And though the HD 800 S is considerably easier to listen to, it still does not make me want to put my head down. It may be more forgiving, but I'm getting the sense that amplifiers which caused issues with the HD800 also cause issues with the HD 800 S, and that I must adapt to newer listening techniques with the new headphone.
 
Phrased a different way, once the setup is optimized for HD800 it would also be optimized for HD 800 S. Such as I was listening to my Vali 2 with different tubes (part of my exercise preparations for the meet). Once I had switched from stock tube to a tube better suited for HD800, I found the HD 800 S to be similarly pleasing. On Asgard 2, I read that distortion was slightly reduced using the lower gain. Listening to HD800, I heard this change. And then I was able to confirm the change was also better for listening to the HD 800 S. I am thinking that everything possible to discern through HD800 is also possible through HD 800 S, however it make take more months of listening adjustment (mental burn-in) for the changes to be understood while listening to the HD 800 S.
 
However, back to your original question - Asgard 2 provides current, which is about all that is required for HEK to play nicely. Instruments are definitely further away from the listener, compared to the HD 800 S. But this is where I run into issues when describing soundstage, which I would say overall is bigger still on the HD 800 S. The first row instruments are closer, but I can peer quite deeper into the stage on HD 800 S. The first row of instruments is further away on the HEK with the stage being a little flatter. And at the end, I really wished I were listening to the Valhalla 2. So I stopped listening to HD 800 S.
 
I think the deltas between HD800 and HD 800 S might be smaller on a lesser headphone too. Going back and forth on Vali 2, I did not notice as much change. It seemed more how they are commonly described - deeper bass and treble notch reduced, while everything else was quite similar. I'll go back to Valhalla 2 for a few more listening tests. But I think the only two amplifiers I should really be commenting on, ones I currently own that are fairer to the HD800, are Cavalli Audio Liquid Carbon and Schiit Ragnarok. The Rag I've been staying away from because I found it too hard, too cold with the HD800 - might be interesting to see how it plays with HD 800 S. The Carbon has been my favorite setup for HD800 - before purchase of Valhalla 2, and now I'm not so sure. There is a hum on the Valhalla 2 that takes away from the black level. I'll switch the cables back to balanced and try these two amplifiers. Then I'll post more.
 
And at a meet in late February, I'll be listening to a MicroZOTL, which I have read is a good tube amplifier, well-matched to both the HD800 and HEK. So I'll post more on that too.

 

[WraithApe]

These things should come with a health warning. I think I've developed a new addiction this weekend 

 

 

[shabta]

  These things should come with a health warning. I think I've developed a new addiction this weekend 

 

Yup. In the review I posted, I mentioned that one of the cons is that the S is "hard to put down at the end of the evening when you really need to get some sleep"
 
I guess that is a good problem to have though.

 

[Mike F]

My first impressions, based on probably not enough listening time - so my findings may very well change in te future.

I recently changed from HD800 to HD800 S. I drive the S with my trusted Auralic Aries extreme into Vega into Taurus Mk2, be it from the balanced output this time, whereas the original HD800 was single ended. Actually, I was planning on buying a balanced cable for the original one. I do believe in SE vs balanced drive, be it not so much because of the balancing (which I link with long distance pro XLR cabling rather than my home desktop setup), but most certainly for the different power spec of my Taurus. As I got a good price for my original HD800 and the HD800 S comes with both a SE and a balanced cable, I could more easily justify the upgrade cost by telling myself it was only that much more than buying a separate CH800S  (or whichever other quality balanced cable ftm. They often cost even more than Sennheiser's offering). You all know the feeling and the quirky jumps you make your mind do for this hobby

Anyway, I'd like to share some of my findings. Please keep in mind that I never heard both side by side and the different drive (SE vs Balanced) that's being used.

I would not call the difference subtle actually. You don't have to listen for it as you do when comparing some of the better DACs. Could be my exact pairs of course, maybe I have a warm HD800 S and I had one of the sharper HD800 cans. I'm quite sensitive to piercing highs. And hell, could they ruin the whole experience or make me want to yank the HD800 off my head in some recordings (actually quite a lot of them sadly). The new one doesn't cut through my ears and head like that, and that alone makes me very happy with my decision.

When you listened to the original for over a year, you have to re-adjust. Not only your ears, but probably even more so your expectations, your brains.
It's easy to have the impression that the lesser amount of high pitched resonance takes away air from the presentation. However, when you adjust to the new sound and listen closely, you hear it's still all there: the separation, the air around the notes,... So that difference is not subtle as it is quite easily discernable, but they are still twins: almost alike, but if you know them very well, you'll quite easily tell them apart. They're in no way a whole other set of cans though... If I'd have to put my finger on the biggest and most obvious difference: you can't not notice the absence of the knife. (Which doesn't mean that it's not there anymore when the recording is just plainly too sharp (as it is with my Beyerdynamic DT880 Pro as well in those cases). That trigger just isn't so lightly pulled anymore. And it shouldn't be if you ask me. In the end, we hope to get some enjoyment of this hobby after all, don't we?)

Maybe I hear an even better holography now, not so distracted by the even more in your face wideness of the original. Of course the balanced drive could also amount to that. Probably both. (I do also think - unlike others - that my LCD3(F) has a holographic sound driven balanced by my Taurus, sometimes maybe even more so than the HD800, be it in a far less wide soundstage). This can add to some sort of intimacy that I thought the original lacked sometimes. I find myself grabbing my LCD3(F) far less when listening to the HD800 S (given that I was seeking to listen to the sound of the one I grabbed in the first place, not planning to swap every few songs or so).

The bass is indeed a tad more present, or maybe indeed "better visible" in the tonal balance as a whole (probably both again), but I'm sure that even bass haters wouldn't be offended by it. The original went deep, but seemed sometimes a bit bass light to me, leaving me wanting just a hint more. Or maybe better put, it sometimes required me to listen for it, to focus on it. It's like it was all there, but not presenting itself to you, you sometimes had to go look for it yourself. The HD800 S seems more spot-on for me in that regard, with its bass less shy to come to you, a bit more naturally flowing, though in no way pushing (and still a far cry from my LCD3(F) of course, what I'm glad about as they are still the excellent complement of each other that I was looking for). This comes without smearing over the other frequencies and details, so personally I'd call this an improvement.

The highs DO loose some energy. Funny thing, but as much as they bothered me in one song with the original, the first few days I did miss them in some other song. However, I have a feeling they're coming back again to a certain amount. Might be headphone/cable burn in... might be my brains and ears adjusting. And I can't help but think that the original's high pitch energy was somehow a bit artificial, adding some HD800 sauce on top of the music (the highs in reality could be damn sharp, but never as cutting as portrayed by the original HD800). Admittedly, an EQ or sauce can taste really good, but I think that what I hear now is just that bit more "real".
For certain songs, it sure could be called a trade-off if you really dug that sauce, but all this music I get in return, songs that become listenable all of a sudden, more than make up for that. It's a compromise I'm happy to take.

One could argue that I had a bad amp pairing, as the Taurus is somewhat bright, especially stacked with the Vega. However, I like the way it brings my LCD3(F) to life, maybe because of it. Could be that with the HD800 S, it still brings out the highs that get a tad too subdued to other people's liking when paired with their trusted amp, which by the way probably was paired with the original HD800 BECAUSE it slightly tamed the highs.

Lastly, I managed to confine my housemate to headphone listening when watching TV together - especially for tv-shows involving music, talent shows,... to the point that she asks for it herself now (victory)
I drive my headphones via toslink out of my set top box, into a Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 DSP (actually a recording device). When I'm alone, I prefer my Mojo, but the Saffire has two HP-connections supporting up to 600ohm cans, with separate volume knobs. I like to listen quite a bit louder than her, so this way we both are happy. The DAC section isn't too bad either, especially given the limited source (digital cable tv).
Before the change, I let her use the HD800, because there as well it was just too bright/piercing for me (so not using the Taurus). Me myself grabbed my HD650 or DT880 pro (the LCD3(F) are a bit heavy for hanging in the coach without loosing them sometime, they require you to sit quite straight, as good as they may sound) and made fun of her wearing my expensive gear while I must be happy with the inferior stuff ^^. Now I'm glad to report the roles have changed as the technical master, being the HD800 S, is now on the ears that appreciate it the most.
I would have loved to try the original with the (maybe a bit warmer) Mojo, but it was late to the party, so I can't comment on that.

I'm just trying to say that my problem was probably more with the original HD800 than with the gear driving it - and that the HD800 S solved it, is far more broadly applicable in any case - in MY case. Or I could be fooling myself

Just my gripe on the matter at the moment. Hope it helps

 
I have to say that if you compare the HD800 balanced and SE there is a big difference in SQ - and not just in volume (at least there is on an HDVD800). I'm convinced that's the main reason why Senn has chosen to include the Balanced cable with the HD800S; they know how much better it sounds. (Well, that and making more money!)
 
I do wonder how many people have (and will) buy the HD800S and try it with the balanced cable and make comparative judgements to the HD800 which they've only ever heard SE, not realising how much that might skew the results in favour of the HD800S. Good tactic by Senn!

 

[WraithApe]

I'm not convinced. I don't have an amp with balanced output at home to test for a longer period of time, but before I took the S away, I did a comparison with HDVD800 + balanced connection and my Hugo. I didn't notice any big difference, besides the fact the HDVD800 was clearly the more powerful amp. Does a balanced circuit really make that much of a difference to SQ? I'm happy to be corrected here, but isn't the purpose of a balanced circuit simply to eliminate potential AC hum / ground loop noise, which may or may not be an issue in the first place?

 

[Mike F]

  I'm not convinced. I don't have an amp with balanced output at home to test for a longer period of time, but before I took the S away, I did a comparison with HDVD800 + balanced connection and my Hugo. I didn't notice any big difference, besides the fact the HDVD800 was clearly the more powerful amp. Does a balanced circuit really make that much of a difference to SQ? I'm happy to be corrected here, but isn't the purpose of a balanced circuit simply to eliminate potential AC hum / ground loop noise, which may or may not be an issue in the first place?

 
Basically, yes. The benefits of fully balanced operation have been known for years in the professional audio and Hi-Fi world (although sadly not the Head-Fi world).
 
But even within the Head-Fi community some people have been extolling it's virtues for many years. Read post #3, 11 and 15 by Tyll Hertsens from this thread:- http://www.head-fi.org/t/140716/what-are-the-technical-advantages-of-a-balanced-headphone-amplifier

 

[Whazzzup]

Robb watts of chord has some opposite thoughts on balanced output and extorts se and does not think that external amplifiers, other than adding distortion and color, provide more transparent or acute sound. Granted it is well established that balanced provides quiet longer cable runs if that is a benefit, other than that it is in the eyes of the listener, and for that I have no particular views for or against. Just sayin.

 

[dharma]

This theme has been discussion subject always, like there too, mostly resulting, that 'balanced is better', but there are some warnings about 'marketing manipulation'... .

 

[WraithApe]

  This theme has been discussion subject always, like there too, mostly resulting, that 'balanced is better', but there are some warnings about 'marketing manipulation'... .

 
I remain unconvinced. I fail to see that beyond the possible elimination of interference over long runs, why balanced would offer any quantitative improvement to SQ. I wouldn't even say the consensus on this thread you link to is that 'balanced is better', but I've no wish to drag this thread into a cable or balanced vs unbalanced discussion, so I'll leave it there.

 

[Mike F]

Well let's just say then that on any given amp which has both, the SE and balanced outputs will sound different, and not just in volume. Even more specifically, the SE and balanced outputs on an HDVD800 sound different (because SE is effectively only using half the amp).
 
It's a significantly clear enough difference to make me aware that comparing two headphones, one using SE and the other using balanced operation, is likely to be a misleading comparison.

 

[WraithApe]

It's the same as when people tell me that I should a difference in SQ due to using 'higher grade' cables - I don't, and I'm personally satisfied that there is substantive scientific evidence why I don't. If you do, that's fine. 

 

[Whazzzup]

  Well let's just say then that on any given amp which has both, the SE and balanced outputs will sound different, and not just in volume. Even more specifically, the SE and balanced outputs on an HDVD800 sound different (because SE is effectively only using half the amp).
 
It's a significantly clear enough difference to make me aware that comparing two headphones, one using SE and the other using balanced operation, is likely to be a misleading comparison.

So you are suggesting that in the hdvd800 the balanced sounds more to your liking than se. That is up for debate for hdvd800 owners to discuss and may reflect the tech they have used in those particular dac amps.

 

[Whazzzup]

  It's the same as when people tell me that I should a difference in SQ due to using 'higher grade' cables - I don't, and I'm personally satisfied that there is substantive scientific evidence why I don't. If you do, that's fine. 

and I do, but thats cool that you dont too.

 we can all get along