[gnarlsagan]

Weird that you've never encountered sibilance with that recording, as that's one of the more troublesome records that lights up most setups I've heard,. I'm cringing at the thought of DAC1 + HD800 + Grace right now. Eek! 

I may have encountered slight sibilance with Grace in the past but usually it doesn't bother me. This was magnitudes more sibilance than I've heard in this or any other recording. It sounds like it's to be expected with this combo though.

Thanks for the responses. So is the Benchmark not a neutral amp then? I thought it was as neutral as possible. To those who say it isn't neutral, what makes you say that? It seems more likely that the cans are bright rather than the DAC1 being bright when considering the evidence. My question is that if the Benchmark is neutral, then why does the HD800 sound much too bright with it? It must be the HD800 that is colored right?

Furthermore, if I buy a colored amp to offset the coloration of the HD800, then aren't I distorting the music and losing fidelity somewhere? I should say I heard dallan's rig with the HD800 + zana deux and I thought it sounded really really good. But why should we have to buy colored sources for colored cans? It seems weird that the HD800 was made to be used with colored sources.

In contrast the LCD-3 sounded awesome out of the O2+ODAC.

I'm relatively new to full sized headphones so please go easy on me

 

[MorbidToaster]

Honestly you probably shouldn't worry about getting something completely 'neutral' and just get what sounds good to you.
 
While neutral systems are great for 'reference' level material I honestly think some coloration is good when the recording/mastering is poor. It helps even things out. That's why you get people talking about more 'forgiving' rigs pretty often.
 
Plus, 'neutral' is a word thrown around a lot here. I honestly think it means next to nothing lately.

 

[davidgotsa]

Exactly what I was gonna say. Grace has sibilance like no other record.
Quote:

 
Weird that you've never encountered sibilance with that recording, as that's one of the more troublesome records that lights up most setups I've heard. I'm cringing at the thought of DAC1 + HD800 + Grace right now. Eek! 

 

[sphinxvc]

Just listened to Grace waiting for sibilance or harshness...
 
None here.
 
And I'm all solid state at the moment.

 

[sphinxvc]

Quote:

Seems I've unintentionally created a bit of a storm in a teacup but I need to add a postscript.
 
I initially hated CDs - they sounded brash, harsh and pretty unlistenable so I religiously stuck with vinyl for years.  But I finally tackled digital seriously but it was a long & expensive battle.  Some CDs started sounding better while others were still pretty bad, and I'm referring to classical recordings here.  I even went to the extent of putting stickers on some to indicate they were not good or were excellent.
 
To cut a long and tiresome story short, what eventually made all the difference was improved filtering and reduced jitter in DACs.  Yes amplifiers etc can sound different but not nearly as dramatically as DACs do.  I'm a sceptic about a lot of the snake oil sold in the name of hi-fi but must concede that the apodising now employed by some (Meridian, Ayre, PS-Audio & others) IS a break through.  I have over 11,000 CDs burned into the Meridian Sooloos system here (and that includes 1500 odd pop) and I no longer hear the awful "digitalis" I used to.  Not that all are pristine recordings but many previously with "bad" stickers on the original CDs now sound fine.
 
So the point I'm trying to make is not to shoot the messenger, the HD800, for perceived 6 khz or whatever peaks.  Gentlemen, I respectfully suggest that faults you are hearing via your Sennies are earlier in the chain. Some of these might be more prominent on some discs more than others but you might be surprised, as I was, how good they can sound with the right gear.
 
So, owning HD800s is a catch 22 situation.  The old GIGO appliers with a vengeance.  But given great input the music they reproduce is second to none in sound quality.
 
John

 
I've had a couple of other headphones in my system, so fairly confident when I call out the slight peak.  Also confident the Zodiac isn't at the root of it.  But, you're right in general about upstream components playing a part.  Since I started using the F3, the peak has showed less of itself.
 
And as far as the peak being "perceived", it shows up on graphs and even the spectral decays posted on this board.  It's more than "perceived."  Wanting to deal with the peak and enjoying ones music aren't mutually exclusive either, lol (I don't see that connection).  

 

[Tassie Devil]

Quote:

 
I've had a couple of other headphones in my system, so fairly confident when I call out the slight peak.  Also confident the Zodiac isn't at the root of it.  But, you're right in general about upstream components playing a part.  Since I started using the F3, the peak has showed less of itself.
 
And as far as the peak being "perceived", it shows up on graphs and even the spectral decays posted on this board.  It's more than "perceived."  Wanting to deal with the peak and enjoying ones music aren't mutually exclusive either, lol (I don't see that connection).  

Fair comment.  If it annoys anyone and detracts from musical enjoyment then for sure it is sensible to look for a fix.  My only concern might be that the "fix" might be more of a problem than the peak.  And another possible thought - is the 6 khz peak being emphasised by other components in the chain?  Finding a suitable compromise to a problem like this is what makes this audio so much fun, yet at times causes so much frustration. Often the "ying" of one component in the chain can be countered by the "yang" in another -> satisfying result.

 

[rfilho]

Any idea of when Senn is going to release a new top end model to be better then the hd800? It's being a few years with no change on their top...
 

 

[poikkeus]

The HD650 was released in 2004. The HD800 in 2009. I'm not privy to Senn's marketing, but they could manage this any number of ways.
 
1. They could come up with an entirely new flagship headphone, but probably no earlier than 2014.
2. They could update the HD800 in the same way that Grado did by changing the SR325 to the SR325is.
3. They could reengineer the sound in smaller ways, and not announce them. 
 
And so on.

 

[.Sup]

They do their research before they release anything so you don't get a half made product that needs to get replaced because the drivers are mismatched for example.

 

[extrabigmehdi]

What do you expect from next sennheiser top model ? They'd try to correct the treble emphasis of the hd800, that's all.

 

[SONIC BOOM]

Quote:

What do you expect from next sennheiser top model ? They'd try to correct the treble emphasis of the hd800, that's all.

It's going to be hard to top the hd800, and I think that's why it will be a while before we see a new top of the line from sennheiser.

 

[.Sup]

More bass, like they did with HD600>HD650

 

[Anaxilus]

1-Increase 1.5khz-4.5khz 1.5-2dB
2-Drop 6khz by 2dB
3-Improve distortion performance below 100hz
4-Make it even faster
5-Paint it Black
 

 

[extrabigmehdi]

Yeah, I would have hoped better speed for the hd800. I perceive the srh940 as faster.

 

[Anaxilus]

That's probably just the 940's lack of bass.  The 1840 and 1440 are still slower.  The Sony SA5000 can give that impression too for the same reason.  Roll off the bass from 100hz and speed and clarity seem to improve.  Until you realize you are actually missing information on the recording.  Even though the HD800 is among the fastest dynamics there is room for improvement.