[kman1211]

That's the thing, I have numerous similar audio technicas , even duplicates and I do a lot of A/B testing.


I do mods, and basically if I want I can make ad1000x wider than ad2000x.

Stock ad900x is wider than them, this has to do with the angled driver+less clamping force than any of them, and if you reduce clamp force you get more space between ears and drivers=wider stage.

The original Non X AD2000 has significantly more clamp force than any of them, significantly more than hd660( I had one).

And this is related to the super intimate sound people speak about them.

Less clamping force leads to a Wider perceived Soundstage,I think it could be one of the reasons why you think your hd660 are significantly wider than hd 600/650/660s2 it would be likely that more than a driver difference.

I have done tons of experiments and even a few CM of driver distance can make truly massive differences when listening to music, even more in percieved frequency response than in soundstage size.

I'm interested if you happen to try another hd660 and are able to compare paying attention to clamp force/driver distance differences.

I mod headphones myself and I am very aware of the impact clamp can have on perceived soundstage width.

The other day I was experimenting a bit. I swapped headbands and other parts between the HD 650 and HD 660S to determine how much parts affect the change and how much clamp has an impact. The clamp wasn't the main cause of the soundstage width though it did help. In fact it was something else that had a bigger effect, the grills. The change in design of the grills has a sonic reason I noticed, it's not just cosmetic.

I found the HD 660S grills made the percieved soundstage on the HD 650 a decent amount wider, imaging improved, the bass texture and presentation changed and the upper mids lost their slight hardness. It gained a good amount of the HD 660S sound character actually but also lost a bit of the HD 650's silkiness. The HD 650 grills on the HD 660S reduced the soundstage and imaging quality and the HD 660S gained some of the upper mid hardness associated with the HD 600 and HD 650.

*They also changed the grills slightly on the HD 660S at one point from the Senn logo being porous on old ones to being solid on newer ones. They did this change before the mold change. The earliest HD 660S's had the porous logo. The middle ones had the solid logo. And the late ones had the new mold, solid logo, and the updated pads.

 

[Josz27]

I mod headphones myself and I am very aware of the impact clamp can have on perceived soundstage width.

The other day I was experimenting a bit. I swapped headbands and other parts between the HD 650 and HD 660S to determine how much parts affect the change and how much clamp has an impact. The clamp wasn't the main cause of the soundstage width though it did help. In fact it was something else that had a bigger effect, the grills. The change in design of the grills has a sonic reason I noticed, it's not just cosmetic.

I found the HD 660S grills made the percieved soundstage on the HD 650 a decent amount wider, imaging improved, the bass texture and presentation changed and the upper mids lost their slight hardness. It gained a good amount of the HD 660S sound character actually but also lost a bit of the HD 650's silkiness. The HD 650 grills on the HD 660S reduced the soundstage and imaging quality and the HD 660S gained some of the upper mid hardness associated with the HD 600 and HD 650.

*They also changed the grills slightly on the HD 660S at one point from the Senn logo being porous on old ones to being solid on newer ones. They did this change before the mold change. The earliest HD 660S's had the porous logo. The middle ones had the solid logo. And the late ones had the new mold, solid logo, and the updated pads.

This info is gold, I'm not a particular fan of Sennheiser headphones but I find this topic very interesting , yeah, almost anything changes the sound and people don't want to understand ( or are deaf, like when they say hd6x0 line sounds the same without the foams, lol)

I had an HD660 that I don't liked at all, it sounded very dark for me, I wonder what version I had, Even my hd598 was brighter.

 

[kman1211]

This info is gold, I'm not a particular fan of Sennheiser headphones but I find this topic very interesting , yeah, almost anything changes the sound and people don't want to understand ( or are deaf, like when they say hd6x0 line sounds the same without the foams, lol)

I had an HD660 that I don't liked at all, it sounded very dark for me, I wonder what version I had, Even my hd598 was brighter.

Yeah it's something that is overlooked some, I am curious to try those custom grills for the HD 6xx series sometime. But yeah the different grills do have an impact. Little changes like that can have distinct changes and it's always been obvious to me. I'm personally more of a Beyer person than a Sennheiser person. I only have minimal experience with Audio-Technica, had an R70x, but just have an A990Z now, which I like a lot in many ways, somehow manages to be completely fatigue free in a way that's rare to my ears, my ears just completely relax into their sound. The A990Z is a bit fat in the bass, but I haven't bothered modding it.

The HD 660S I find a bit dynamically compressed particularly in the mids and treble, not as bad as the HD 560S is about this though. That creates a sensation they're less bright and vivid as they should be imho. I found the ATH-R70x to have a bit of this problem too but it's a bit different as it showed more glimmers of dynamics at times, but that could be the system/cable I was using them on holding them back. The HD 600 or HD 650 don't have this issue, nor do I recall the HD 660S2 having it in my more brief time with it. The HD 660S2 was the first open Senn I've heard with genuinely good bass presence, extension, and quality. Just wish the S2 had a bit more upper mid energy, at least on the system I tried them with. Will try them again in the future as I have changed my system since then.

This problem with the dynamics is fairly obvious to me coming from the HD 650 and especially Beyers and many other headphones. Bass on the HD 660S is fine other than some extension imho whereas the HD 650 has subpar bass quality in general (stock) but better mid and treble quality though I prefer the HD 660S's balance in these regions more. There is no real backbone and not much detail in the bass on the HD 650, it's kinda fluffed up and not very solid whereas on the HD 660S it has a backbone to it and notably better bass articulation.

I personally have qualms about both the HD 650 and HD 660S and I'm not sure which one I should focus on. Problem is since upgrading my system, the T1.3 has ruined both the HD 650 and HD 660S for me, it's basically better in everyway to me and sounds more natural to my ears. The fidelity gulf is just too big between them and the HD 650 and HD 660S. I am leaning towards the HD 660S of the two overall as despite some drawbacks compared to the HD 650, I find their benefits outweigh their drawbacks I like it more as a whole and I may tinker with some mods, etc. with them in the future. But I am wanting to upgrade to have a better compliment to my T1.3. I love the comfort and form factor of the Senns though, I may look into the S2 again but also seems new stuff is coming out so have to keep an eye out.

 

[IgorUA]

Guys, please help me to find original thick pads for HD660. I've already bought original pads, paid about £35, and these pads wear out after just a few weeks. One side gets smaller than the other, they get softer. For that price, I expected something of higher quality. I know that the original HD660s with rounder sides had thicker pads. Is it possible to buy them at all?

 

[Plieb]

Guys, please help me to find original thick pads for HD660. I've already bought original pads, paid about £35, and these pads wear out after just a few weeks. One side gets smaller than the other, they get softer. For that price, I expected something of higher quality. I know that the original HD660s with rounder sides had thicker pads. Is it possible to buy them at all?

Doubt you can find the unique original 660s pads. They were oval shaped and were more dense than origins pads.
However the new sennheiser brand pads that they are currently using for all 600 series are very thick and much more dense than what was available.
Make sure you buy them from sennheiser.

 

[IgorUA]

Doubt you can find the unique original 660s pads. They were oval shaped and were more dense than origins pads.
However the new sennheiser brand pads that they are currently using for all 600 series are very thick and much more dense than what was available.
Make sure you buy them from sennheiser.

Thank you for your reply Plieb! I bought them from audiosanctuary.co.uk and these are definitely official pads. But different countries may have a slightly different stock in stores.

 

[Plieb]

Thank you for your reply Plieb! I bought them from audiosanctuary.co.uk and these are definitely official pads. But different countries may have a slightly different stock in stores.

 

[Plieb]

The new hd600 pads are about 23 millimeters in thickness. Much thicker than my older version pads.

 

[rafaelo]

Thank you for your reply Plieb! I bought them from audiosanctuary.co.uk and these are definitely official pads. But different countries may have a slightly different stock in stores.

That might be the old version pads. They might have old stock. I am also at uk and bought directly from sennheiser the new version pads.

If you make a picture of the package of the pads we might figure it out.

 

[Plieb]

If the packaging looks like this then they are the old version and are not as thick and dense. I purchased these from amazon about 14 months ago when sennheiser( old company) was out of stock.
Amazon still selling a lot of these.

 

[kman1211]

Thank you for your reply Plieb! I bought them from audiosanctuary.co.uk and these are definitely official pads. But different countries may have a slightly different stock in stores.

An easy way to tell is when you take them off if the plastic ring is transparent (new) or matte black (old)

 

[IgorUA]

Thank you all for your advice! Mine seems to have transparent plastic on the inside. But I can't understand why the sound is so deaf. There is a lot of bass and very detailed highs (the highest range). But there is something missing between the midrange and the treble. It sounds as if there is a thick layer of foam or cotton on the driver, but it is not. The pads are mounted on a standard foam pad of about 2 mm thickness. All emphasis on bass and lower midrange. I compare it to my friend's new HD600 headphones, which are made in Ireland. The HD600s sound much clearer and bright, although they have less bass. And on these HD600s, the pads are tighter, rounder, and a little bit better at holding their shape. They're definitely different and even the colour of the velour is a little different, it's almost black, but a little blue when you look at it in bright light. My HD660 pads are completely black. I'll try to look for the pads on the official website.

 

[pintegral]

If anyone is interested in a comparison between 660S and 660S2, this is my impression after 3 months of daily use and comparison. The S2 is basically the same as 660S with a distorted stage.

Sound alone, they are very close. Some times I feel one sounds really good and switch to the other and I get the same good sound. And when one sounds really bad, the other sounds bad too. It doesn't get worse or better, just the same laidback safe sound, not much to expect to begin with and even less observed. Is there more bass or sub bass in S2? Maybe, but I have to try hard to convince myself. I also seem to notice more details from 660S.

For sound stage, I think the S2 is just weird. It applies this transformation that holds mids a little backward, treble in the middle, and bass a little forward. It creates some depth and bend the stage to envelope the audience, giving an intimate impression. There is a cost to that too. It almost feels like bass travels the fastest or a drum set is put at the front of a band. Not a problem for music, but can be a problem for live recordings, movies, and TV series. Once in a little while, you get that bass bomb, especially at the beginning and the end of a sentence where it is emphasized. None of my other headphones or IEMs sounds this way. Even those big V shaped KZ stuff and bass heavy headphones, they may sound boomy, shouty, muddy, harsh but the sounds line up at proper places. I think the normal sound stage makes 660S easier to notice details.

I may have exaggerated the problem. It's a thing that can be both a feature and a bug. Honestly, a few seconds in after I put either one on, I get used to it. But, since I have both currently, it's enough to make me use the S2 less and less to the point I hardly put them on anymore.

 

[kman1211]

If anyone is interested in a comparison between 660S and 660S2, this is my impression after 3 months of daily use and comparison. The S2 is basically the same as 660S with a distorted stage.

Sound alone, they are very close. Some times I feel one sounds really good and switch to the other and I get the same good sound. And when one sounds really bad, the other sounds bad too. It doesn't get worse or better, just the same laidback safe sound, not much to expect to begin with and even less observed. Is there more bass or sub bass in S2? Maybe, but I have to try hard to convince myself. I also seem to notice more details from 660S.

For sound stage, I think the S2 is just weird. It applies this transformation that holds mids a little backward, treble in the middle, and bass a little forward. It creates some depth and bend the stage to envelope the audience, giving an intimate impression. There is a cost to that too. It almost feels like bass travels the fastest or a drum set is put at the front of a band. Not a problem for music, but can be a problem for live recordings, movies, and TV series. Once in a little while, you get that bass bomb, especially at the beginning and the end of a sentence where it is emphasized. None of my other headphones or IEMs sounds this way. Even those big V shaped KZ stuff and bass heavy headphones, they may sound boomy, shouty, muddy, harsh but the sounds line up at proper places. I think the normal sound stage makes 660S easier to notice details.

I may have exaggerated the problem. It's a thing that can be both a feature and a bug. Honestly, a few seconds in after I put either one on, I get used to it. But, since I have both currently, it's enough to make me use the S2 less and less to the point I hardly put them on anymore.

What system are you using the two on? I have both as well. I do find the S does have more accurate staging but I do think S2 has more fine details and texture and the sound I find bit more effortless. Though I would say the 660S is the only one of the HD 6xx series with accurate staging, the rest aren't all that accurate in terms of staging though the S2 does have more precision and has better staging than the 600 or 650. The S2 in a lot of ways sounds like a hybrid of the HD 660S and the HD 650 (which I also own), I hear traits of both in the headphone.

 

[Luckyleo]

If anyone is interested in a comparison between 660S and 660S2, this is my impression after 3 months of daily use and comparison. The S2 is basically the same as 660S with a distorted stage.

Sound alone, they are very close. Some times I feel one sounds really good and switch to the other and I get the same good sound. And when one sounds really bad, the other sounds bad too. It doesn't get worse or better, just the same laidback safe sound, not much to expect to begin with and even less observed. Is there more bass or sub bass in S2? Maybe, but I have to try hard to convince myself. I also seem to notice more details from 660S.

For sound stage, I think the S2 is just weird. It applies this transformation that holds mids a little backward, treble in the middle, and bass a little forward. It creates some depth and bend the stage to envelope the audience, giving an intimate impression. There is a cost to that too. It almost feels like bass travels the fastest or a drum set is put at the front of a band. Not a problem for music, but can be a problem for live recordings, movies, and TV series. Once in a little while, you get that bass bomb, especially at the beginning and the end of a sentence where it is emphasized. None of my other headphones or IEMs sounds this way. Even those big V shaped KZ stuff and bass heavy headphones, they may sound boomy, shouty, muddy, harsh but the sounds line up at proper places. I think the normal sound stage makes 660S easier to notice details.

I may have exaggerated the problem. It's a thing that can be both a feature and a bug. Honestly, a few seconds in after I put either one on, I get used to it. But, since I have both currently, it's enough to make me use the S2 less and less to the point I hardly put them on anymore.

I respect your listening experience. Mine is completely different. The S2 is superior in most ways to the S. Much much better timbre, better bass, and seems like the final, update to the 6xx series...... Will be selling my S....... As always, YMMV!!

Leo