[Anarion]

Mmhhhmm... I can't really get over the recess in 2-5K range. Mine sounds like things are coming from under the ground and lack of clarity vs. my HD 6XX - can't really explain it any different when swapping between the two quickly. Also the large dip before the 6K makes sibilant sound more prominent even though both are more or less the same at that point. It's like something is missing and sounds somewhat disjointed. Not sure if my HD 660 S happens to be darker than typical (or maybe my HD 6XX is brighter than typical).

 

[tafens]

Honestly I think the Asgard 3 is very similar to the Lyr 3 without the tube rolling ability and the slight tube sound the Lyr 3 has. The Lyr 3 just has a little bit smoother treble (though this depends on the tube) and is a bit more resolving. But don't get me wrong the treble is very smooth and natural on the Asgard 3, by far the smoothest and cleanest I've heard around it's price range. I listen mostly with Beyers so I know real fast if an amp or dac has issues with the treble. Just as with the HD 6xx line I'll know real fast if there is some problems in the upper mids.

I really like the Asgard3 and it certainly has similarities with the Lyr3. It probably should have, too, as both use the same Continiuty(tm) topology (Lyr3 for its solid state part).

A few days ago I did a comparison between my Lyr3 and Asgard3 on the Bifrost2. But before I get to that though, a word about the multibit card vs Bifrost2 on Asgard3; albeit I did not do a thorough comparison on this, I felt that Bifrost2 gave the Asgard3 a more dynamic sound, removed some uncomfortable treble presence and also gave it a larger sound stage as compared to the card.

Now for the Lyr3 and the Asgard3. I use a Tung-Sol 6SN7 GTB (reissue) tube in the Lyr3 and listen with HD6XX headphones. Both amps on high gain.
I had the Asgard3 sandwiched between the Bifrost2 and the Lyr3 (and yes, yes, the Lyr3 on top.. ), and to switch between them I had to first move the interconnects and then the headphone to the one I wanted to listen to.

TL;DR: Asgard3 is very good, but I prefer the Lyr3.

The slightly longer version; Both of them are great, no doubt about that. However, using Asgard3 as the reference, I feel that the Lyr3 has more of a wide/deep soundstage (while Asgard3 is more in your head). Lyr3 also feels more engaging, more dynamic to me, with perhaps a bit more low end bass, while Asgard3 comes out as a little more dry sounding.
Moreover; if, having switched back and forth between them, I stayed on one and listened to the end of the song before going to the next and begin switching again it was almost always the Lyr3.

If they were beers:
Asgard3: well, this is a really good pint of beer!
Lyr3: hey barkeep! get me anothet one!

Perhaps it’s a tube thing..? I’ve found that I really like the tube sound, so just as the tubes, I might be a bit biased..

 

[tafens]

I’m interested as to why you guys are using these relatively inexpensive amps. Nothing wrong with inexpensive (and as a matter of fact I think the whole head-fi hobby has become far too expensive!) but when there are excellent and not overpriced SS alternatives like the Lehmann (which have excellent synergy with the Senns) I wonder why you bother with all that Schiit? Excuse the cheeky phrasing(!) but it is a genuine question.

Well for me, I got started with a $200 Magni + Modi
I combo and liked it and then continued moving up the chain... tried their multibit offerings and liked them too Now I’m on a $500+$700 Schiit system. I don’t know what a Lehmann costs, but $1200 is about high enough for me..

I just realised the Asgard/Lyr3 discussion in that last posts were here in the HD660S thread. I got lost in my mind thinking I was in the Asgard3 thread and my last posts about them was really meant to be posted there.. sorry about that. Is it possible to move a post to another thread?

 

[Ichos]

https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/brands-s-se/hd650/

Very interesting observations at the end regarding the veil , driver matching and variations between units.

 

[Mike F]

Well for me, I got started with a $200 Magni + Modi
I combo and liked it and then continued moving up the chain... tried their multibit offerings and liked them too Now I’m on a $500+$700 Schiit system. I don’t know what a Lehmann costs, but $1200 is about high enough for me..

I just realised the Asgard/Lyr3 discussion in that last posts were here in the HD660S thread. I got lost in my mind thinking I was in the Asgard3 thread and my last posts about them was really meant to be posted there.. sorry about that. Is it possible to move a post to another thread?

https://www.amazon.com/Lehmann-Audi...ds=lehmann+audio+linear&qid=1580894558&sr=8-2

I see you're in Sweden but quoting $ prices(?) so I did the same! Just for your info. It's not the last word, but it works extremely well with Sennheisers (it was used in the development of and original demoing at the release of the HD800) and probably nearly as well as the TOTL multi thousand dollar amps out there. The Lehmann represents huge value for money IMO.

 

[Mike F]

Mmhhhmm... I can't really get over the recess in 2-5K range. Mine sounds like things are coming from under the ground and lack of clarity vs. my HD 6XX - can't really explain it any different when swapping between the two quickly. Also the large dip before the 6K makes sibilant sound more prominent even though both are more or less the same at that point. It's like something is missing and sounds somewhat disjointed. Not sure if my HD 660 S happens to be darker than typical (or maybe my HD 6XX is brighter than typical).

@Anarion I know exactly what you mean! This is a very good description to me. I don't know how closely you've been following the thread but I've said many times that I just don't understand how anyone can hear the HD660S as being brighter the HD650 (and my amazement at Sonarworks FR graph and consequent speculation that the HD660S underwent an early revision to tame the treble).

I have two HD650's, one purchased March 2012 and the other purchased January 2018 (both silver screens) and have heard four different HD660S's. There are subtle differences (largely due I think to driver matching) but in every case the HD650's have more presence in the 2-5kHz range, and more presence above that as well. (i.e. they're brighter!)

To me the HD660S is a dark headphone with excellent speed and clarity throughout all frequencies, particularly in the bass and lower mids. I also find the treble to be very good (I don't personally find them sibilant - that may be due to my source, material, and listening volume). It's increased speed and clarity make it more engaging than the HD650 (but not fatiguing - at least to me) but they lack the fine detail and smoothness of the HD650's treble and euphonious presentation as well as some of the naturalness of timbre. The HD650 is a more relaxed (but ultimately no less accurate) listen for sure. All just MVHO!

 

[Mike F]

https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/brands-s-se/hd650/

Very interesting observations at the end regarding the veil , driver matching and variations between units.

@Ichos, thanks! Somehow I’d missed that! It confirms what I’ve been saying for some time in this thread about change in the 6 series headphones over time, and also sample variation due largely to driver matching, such as this from post #5370:-

Sample variation though for sure, and in fact guaranteed when you have driver matching (which of course is a good thing) going on.

 

[kman1211]

@Ichos, thanks! Somehow I’d missed that! It confirms what I’ve been saying for some time in this thread about change in the 6 series headphones over time, and also sample variation due largely to driver matching, such as in this from post #5370:-

Sample variation though for sure, and in fact guaranteed when you have driver matching (which of course is a good thing) going on.

The measurements of the HD 650 and HD 660 S also represents more of what I hear between the two headphones as well. It shows the HD 660 S being the darkest, the HD 650 in the middle, and the HD 600 being the brightest.

Honeslty any long running headphone is going to have some variance over time due to changes in materials, supplier changes, tolerance changes, silent revisions, etc. The HD 6xx are some of the longest running headphones on the market. Only some Beyers such as the DT 100 and DT 150 have been on the market longer with any sort of real consistency and no complete overhauls and possibly a couple other headphones have been on the market longer without much change. The K240’s and DT 880/990’s while the nameplates have been around longer than the HD 6xx line have changed too much for me to consider them pretty much the same headphone as their old version.

 

[aisalen]

If the 660s is darker than 650, I am right in my decision to get the Beyer Amiron instead to compliment my 600. 650 is lacking highs in my taste that is why I sold it and vocals is shouty at times specially from female singer.

 

[Mike F]

If the 660s is darker than 650, I am right in my decision to get the Beyer Amiron instead to compliment my 600. 650 is lacking highs in my taste that is why I sold it and vocals is shouty at times specially from female singer.

Hard to know what you will like if you find female vocals shouty on an HD650....

 

[aisalen]

Hard to know what you will like if you find female vocals shouty on an HD650....

I don't know, but I didn't experience that with 600. I sold also my almost new 58x, the bass for me sounds artificial. Well I guess it is the 600 that fits my ear profile.

 

[Mike F]

I don't know, but I didn't experience that with 600. I sold also my almost new 58x, the bass for me sounds artificial. Well I guess it is the 600 that fits my ear profile.

I'm confused! I thought you meant that you found female vocals shouty on the HD650?

 

[aisalen]

I'm confused! I thought you meant that you found female vocals shouty on the HD650?

Yes.

 

[kman1211]

If the 660s is darker than 650, I am right in my decision to get the Beyer Amiron instead to compliment my 600. 650 is lacking highs in my taste that is why I sold it and vocals is shouty at times specially from female singer.

The Amiron Home is a good choice imho, I think it’s a rather underrated headphone, I’ve owned mine for a while now. It’s the headphone that won out over the HD 660 S in terms of sound when I first had the HD 660 S and made me having to get rid of the HD 660 S due to it affecting me weirdly tolerable. I’ve had all of the HD 6xx line sound shouty to me depending on the system, their upper mids and vocals can be abrasive to some people. Beyers tend to take a step back and have gentler mids than the Senns.

I like the Senns, but honestly I can only really live with one HD 6xx family headphone as the others will get ignored if I have more than one. They’re too similar for me to really keep them all. If the HD 660 S didn’t make me dizzy it would be the HD 6xx headphone I would keep. But now I’m thinking of maybe revisiting the HD 600(it’s been a while) and comparing it with the HD 6XX/650 and see which of those I would like more in the end.

 

[Anarion]

@Anarion I know exactly what you mean! This is a very good description to me. I don't know how closely you've been following the thread but I've said many times that I just don't understand how anyone can hear the HD660S as being brighter the HD650 (and my amazement at Sonarworks FR graph and consequent speculation that the HD660S underwent an early revision to tame the treble).

I have two HD650's, one purchased March 2012 and the purchased January 2018 (both silver screens) and have heard four different HD660S's. There are subtle differences (largely due I think to driver matching) but in every case the HD650's have more presence in the 2-5kHz range, and more presence above that as well. (i.e. they're brighter!)

To me the HD660S is a dark headphone with excellent speed and clarity throughout all frequencies, particularly in the bass and lower mids. I also find the treble to be very good (I don't personally find them sibilant - that may be due to my source, material, and listening volume). It's increased speed and clarity make it more engaging than the HD650 (but not fatiguing - at least to me) but they lack the fine detail and smoothness of the HD650's treble and euphonious presentation as well as some of the naturalness of timbre. The HD650 is a more relaxed (but ultimately no less accurate) listen for sure. All just MVHO!

By the way, I've been swapping between HD 6XX, HD 660 S and HD 58X on the fly and HD 660 S is by far the most different sounding while HD 6XX and HD 58X are much closer (except when it comes to actual performance). Also HD 660 S is by far the darker sounding which I find a bit weird since there's shouldn't be much difference other than more prominent bass on HD 58X. Bass might trick my ears but I'm pretty darn possible it's not just that.

HD 660 S... dark with clarity. It's a bit weird combination to be honest and does have its pros and cons. It wouldn't have made to re-release the HD 650 or HD 600 so HD 660 S kinda makes sense. I think that Sennheiser should consider releasing a variant that would keep the HD 650 style frequency response (maybe tweak it a bit - extended sub bass wouldn't hurt as long as it's just sub bass; maybe a bit more around 10k and a bit less warmness) but improve speed, resolution etc. That would be incredible....

By the way, MX 760 is almost like HD 650 in earbud form factor tuning wise. To bad that they don't seem to make earphones like that anymore. Well, there's MX 365 but probably lesser quality.