Sennheiser HD660S... Finally a successor for the HD650?
Mar 10, 2018 at 2:21 PM Post #2,881 of 9,628
Lonely Shepherd, I appreciate your comments.

First, a word about my ATC's. I have in fact owned them since 1994 at which time they cost a fraction of what they do now. They weren't the SL version then, but I've had them upgraded to the latest spec. The only reason I mentioned them was because I wanted to make it clear that I knew what a good transducer should sound like. You're going to point out that a headphone and a speaker don't sound anything alike and you'd be right, but as far as is possible they should. It's the reason why, for instance, some headphone manufacturers have introduced headphones with angled drivers - to help give something of the soundstage which is available with speakers. My point was that I was comparing the HD 650 with a very familiar high quality sound source, so that my specific questions, for example about detail on the HD 660 S, were not asked without any comparative reference.

Second, let me take the opportunity to apologise to Sigmaaa, yourself, and anyone else who may have found any of my comments about the HD 660 S overly negative. I concede that my last comment about the price drop, whilst genuinely said in jest, could have caused offence. None was meant, and I'm sorry if any was taken.

It was in fact my intention to leave this thread, having made an informed decision not to buy the HD 660 S, several pages ago, but I came back to respond to Sigmaaa's post about pads where he was clearly, in my view, trying to discredit a certain reviewer. I have to say, in my defence, that if I've been guilty of any negativity in this thread then I'm not the only one.

I will also tell you that more recently I have been having a PM discussion with another member who is on this thread (whom I won't name, of course) because I wanted to continue the discussion about the sound differences between the HD 650 and HD 660 S. I contacted him saying that I no longer felt comfortable with asking questions on the forum because of the negative reaction that I was receiving from some members who owned the HD 660 S. I said I thought that they were taking anything I questioned as criticism of the HD 660 S which they also seemed to be taking personally. This member totally agreed with me and understood why I didn't want to continue the discussion on the forum. Furthermore he told me that at the beginning the thread hadn't been like that but more recently had become so, and that he himself had 'held back' from giving his thoughts on the HD 660 S for the same reasons.

I have absolutely no wish to ruin this thread or sour relationships here. I came here to have a good and informative discussion and I'd like to thank those members who have kindly interacted with me. I also want to add that I hope that those of you who like the HD 660 S continue to enjoy it and that it's a success for Sennheiser, even if I'm sure that it's not for me. If I get to hear it and I change my mind I will come back and say so. Perhaps some of you will hope that doesn't happen! :wink:

Mike, I am with you on the freedom of speech. That's a fantastic British achievement. And yes it is hard for people with a deviating opinion. But it is as I said an achievement that I defend. Looking around the globe it needs to be defended.
 
Mar 10, 2018 at 2:36 PM Post #2,883 of 9,628
I absolutely agree that freedom of speech is something to be valued and defended. There is no debate there.

What is up for debate is when somebody continually posts negative comments in a topic about a product they've never heard, page after page, and belittles those who might not agree with their preconceived notions, and who then comes over all defensive and sensitive when people call them out about it.

I only have my own ears with which to form an opinion about headphones, if people disagree with my opinion that is absolutely fine, if everyone thought the same they're be just one pair of headphones in the world and we'd all be listening to them. How boring would that be?
 
Mar 10, 2018 at 2:43 PM Post #2,884 of 9,628
Well, freedom of speech has nothing to do with anything here. Nobody banned him, chased him away by force etc. He is entitled to his opinions as much as I am. If he wants to make an in depth analysis of the hd660s without ever listening to it, or claim he is a medium, it's his right to do so. I just wanted to emphasize some things for some that may watch the thread sporadically and take his words for granted without knowing the background of the discussion. I mean...I enjoy trolling myself sometimes, can't restrict others for doing it, it's nothing that harmful, no hard feelings, just wanted to give my sincere opinion on the matter.
 
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Mar 10, 2018 at 2:47 PM Post #2,885 of 9,628
I absolutely agree that freedom of speech is something to be valued and defended. There is no debate there.

What is up for debate is when somebody continually posts negative comments in a topic about a product they've never heard, page after page, and belittles those who might not agree with their preconceived notions, and who then comes over all defensive and sensitive when people call them out about it.

I only have my own ears with which to form an opinion about headphones, if people disagree with my opinion that is absolutely fine, if everyone thought the same they're be just one pair of headphones in the world and we'd all be listening to them. How boring would that be?

I'm not going to argue with you - I meant what I said about not wanting to ruin the thread or sour relations here. If you think that I'm ingenue then that's up to you. But I do have a question. Do you think that trying to form an opinion about a headphone without trying it is fundamentally wrong? If so, why wouldn't that apply to all manner of consumer goods? But yet we make informed decisions about what to buy based on reviews and reputation all of the time......
Take the question as rhetorical if you wish.
 
Mar 10, 2018 at 3:58 PM Post #2,886 of 9,628
The HD660S is clearly a very controversial headphone with mixed professional and customer reviews. On one side there are the people who are die-hard HD600 & HD650 fans, expected the HD660S to be more of the same for some reason, and don't appreciate the sound signature changes (assuming they have actually tried the HD660S). On the other side there are people who find them to be a worthwhile step up from their older headphones (I fall into this camp). I find the HD660S more enjoyable and engaging than my older HD650. The ongoing debate and divide about the HD660S just goes to show how subjective headphone listening can be.
 
Mar 10, 2018 at 4:04 PM Post #2,887 of 9,628
I'm not going to argue with you - I meant what I said about not wanting to ruin the thread or sour relations here. If you think that I'm ingenue then that's up to you. But I do have a question. Do you think that trying to form an opinion about a headphone without trying it is fundamentally wrong? If so, why wouldn't that apply to all manner of consumer goods? But yet we make informed decisions about what to buy based on reviews and reputation all of the time......
Take the question as rhetorical if you wish.
While it is a little strange that a guy who never heard the phones is the dominant poster, the discussion has generally been at a higher level than most. Usually they turn into arguments about which cheap Schitt amp/dac is best or questioning if there is anything wrong with mp3 or YouTube sound quality.
 
Mar 10, 2018 at 6:12 PM Post #2,890 of 9,628
Mike, this is in the realm of psychiatry already. You haven't even listened to it, yet you criticize it for 50 pages ........

Feels like forever but oddly Mike just joined the discussion back Feb 12th, so not that long.....hmmm.


But I’m as guilty of this as is anyone else, there are questions to addressed....all the pros and cons floating around in ones head, reading and interpreting and re-interpreting between the lines, except it’s our interpretation of an interpretation. It’s the case of the “What if” syndrome and the only cure is to actual get the said item in question into ones grubby little hands…”now I’ve got ya” only to discover all our preconceived expectations were out in left field...lol …at least we can claim on hands experience.….but the brain is a funny thing.

I'm looking forward to see Mike's on hand observations, if and when the 660S make it onto his roster...but he did mention his initial thoughts on this with his first post.

It's possibly not widely known here that the HD650 has for many years been considered a serious tool for critical listening, editing, and even mixing by sound engineers......
..............

I'm sure that Sennheiser will make plenty of sales with the HD660S, but personally I'm staying with the HD650's (I also have the HD800). In fact, just in case Sennheiser really do discontinue the HD650 in favour of the HD660S, I've ordered another pair!
 
Mar 10, 2018 at 6:12 PM Post #2,891 of 9,628
I'm not going to argue with you - I meant what I said about not wanting to ruin the thread or sour relations here. If you think that I'm ingenue then that's up to you. But I do have a question. Do you think that trying to form an opinion about a headphone without trying it is fundamentally wrong? If so, why wouldn't that apply to all manner of consumer goods? But yet we make informed decisions about what to buy based on reviews and reputation all of the time......
Take the question as rhetorical if you wish.

That's a very good question about consumer goods, and one that would take way longer to answer properly than I have time to.

I think with headphones it's different than say a washing machine that can easily be proven to clean better than another washing machine and can therefore be ruled out by reading reviews without ever buying and using said machine.

With headphones there's way more to it because you're dealing with different genres of music, different expectations, different emotions, it's a lot more personal, so Mike I'd have to say that no, I'd never make a judgement on a headphone without having listed to it. All we can do is feed back on what we have, what we've listened to, and whilst that does give potential buyers an idea of what to expect, the only way to know for sure is to listen for oneself.
 
Mar 10, 2018 at 6:37 PM Post #2,895 of 9,628
Preferences, preferences, preferences....almost wants me to repurchase....lol.,..
I took mine to work to return them but ended up keeping them, really enjoying them right now.
 

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