Sennheiser HD650 vs. Stax 2020 Basic System: a comparison
Aug 19, 2004 at 10:47 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 162

Beagle

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Sennheiser HD650 vs. Stax 2020 Basic System: a comparison

I recently did a fairly thorough comparison between these two topnotch headphones. The HD650 was run out of an X-CAN V3 and the Stax was plugged into it's own SRM212 amplifier.

My only previous experience with Stax was when I owned the SR40 electret headset that I purchased around 1980. I used these for about 10 years before the cord eventually frayed down. Afterwhich, I discovered the Grado SR60 and moved up from there. I enjoyed the SR40 for it's clarity and detail and evenness of sound.

I have owned the Sennheiser HD580, 600 and 650. There are obvious improvements as you go from the former to the latter, but there is a Sennheiser sound that is shared with the three, which is refined as you go up.

I purchased the HD650 in April and it got a good amount of listening time over the last couple of months, sharing main duties with the Grado RS-2.

During the local Head-Fi meet in 2003, I got to listen to the 2020 and was quite impressed, although I knew I'd probably never be able to afford them ($1100 CDN retail). But the memory of their sound always stayed with me and I got curious and asked to borrow them from a local high end audio dealer.

I will just simply give my overall views on the HD650 and those of the Grado RS-2 and then compare my views on the sound of the Stax against the sound of the HD650.

The HD650 is a very smooth, full sounding headphone. When compared against it's siblings (580,600), it has a full midrange and bass, and a clean, smoothed over top. It sounds good with a large variety of music. The RS-2 (w/ flat pads) has an immediacy in the midrange, rich bottom end and clear treble presentation, although somewhat rolled off at the extreme top. I found the RS-2 a bit more exciting and upfront than the HD650. I enjoyed listening to music with both headphones. They presented two different points of view on headphone sound.

The Stax 2020 Basic System, in the confines of my home and my music, takes headphone listening way beyond anything I'd previously experienced. Upon first listening, they sounded shy in the bass and flat in the dynamics department. Of course, all first impressions are what your brain is comparing to your previous headphone expectations and experience.

As I listened more and more, I realized that the Stax 2020 Basic System was telling it like it is/was. Bright recordings sounded bright, dull ones dull, bass heavy was bass heavy. It stood back and simply let the music into your ears. In comparison, the Sennheiser and Grado seemed to inflict their own specific character and colorations onto whatever music they were playing. It was like the Stax had a much larger space to put everything in perspective the way it should be, while the HD650 and RS-2 were in a more "confined" area sonically, and had to compensate by pushing the sound together in a bit of a ball. Again, this is only in comparison the to openness and detailing that the Stax provided. I think this is due to the large rectangular shaped electrostatic drivers which disperse the sound over a larger area around the ears. The Stax has the remarkable quality of being transparent, not only in the midrange and treble, but in the bottom end where most headphones fail miserably. You can hear the tone, and the stop/start of the notes in the lower register. The Senns and the Grado seem to "fill out" the bass and upper midrange area on most recordings. And the treble seems to extend forever, giving a natural tone and shimmer to bells, percussion, cymbals etc. No veiling with these babies! The HD650 has a very detailed treble but lacks the Stax openness and treble shimmer and dynamics. A bit bland and muffled. What's also great is that you don't have to turn them up to make the music exciting and valid.

The Stax is also fairly light and very comfortable, with the snug yet light fit on the head and around the ears.

Complaints?

Well, the construction (for a $1100CDN headphone) appears pretty flimsy and cheap. They tend to creak as you adjust them on your head. It's like you have $600 drivers and 50 cent housing. But they sound great so this is just quibbling unnecessarily. Also,if played at fairly high volumes, the Stax could sound a wee bit quacky in the upper mids, probably attributable to the plastic construction. But as I mentioned above, you really don't need to crank these to enjoy the music.

So I got my headphone epiphany and am going to go for The Stax 2020 Basic System.
 
Aug 21, 2004 at 3:57 AM Post #2 of 162
IMHO, I would go with the 3030 system rather than the 2020. As good as the 2020 is the 3030 gives you even more. I do not know if the 3030 will be your last system but it is very satisfactory. You might want to look at the review by 6-moons audio. In any event, ENJOY!
 
Aug 22, 2004 at 7:15 PM Post #3 of 162
I got the 2020, as the 3030 is a bit of of reach financially ($1700 CDN). This is the most transparent headphone I've yet heard. You can hear the actual mixes and EQ on recordings, not the headphones "sound". I'm thrilled. Quote:

Originally Posted by pspivak
IMHO, I would go with the 3030 system rather than the 2020. As good as the 2020 is the 3030 gives you even more. I do not know if the 3030 will be your last system but it is very satisfactory. You might want to look at the review by 6-moons audio. In any event, ENJOY!


 
Aug 22, 2004 at 7:32 PM Post #4 of 162
Actually the 3030 is only 1,168.50CDN while you could have gotten the 2020 for 718.50CDN
frown.gif
When buying Japanese its always best to buy from Japan. Kind of like the fools who buy Canadian audio products in the US are paying way too much when they could just buy from Canada and ship to US.
 
Aug 22, 2004 at 10:29 PM Post #5 of 162
Quote:

Originally Posted by Beagle
I got the 2020, as the 3030 is a bit of of reach financially ($1700 CDN). This is the most transparent headphone I've yet heard. You can hear the actual mixes and EQ on recordings, not the headphones "sound". I'm thrilled.


I am not surprised that you are thrilled. Welcome to the world of electrostatic headphones and discovering/rediscovering music of all types, old and new. Use them in good health but be warned, it is easy to play them too loud and hurt your hearing. The low distortion may tempt you to turn them up. Start at a low volume for 10 to 15 minutes or so, where you are straining a bit to hear all the musical details, while reading or being distracted by something else (e.g. responding to this forum), then adjust only if necessary. You may find that the lowered volume is more than sufficient. You will also find thet if you sensitize yourself at a lower volume first the headphones ('er, earspeakers) take on a magical quality sounding so effortless in their presentation and virtually unlimited dynamic range.
 
Aug 22, 2004 at 11:49 PM Post #6 of 162
This is exactly what is happening. I'm going back and listening to old favourites and discovering a whole new perspective and musical detailing I never got before. These things KILL any dynamic headphone I've ever heard save perhaps the HP-1.. Quote:

Originally Posted by pspivak
I am not surprised that you are thrilled. Welcome to the world of electrostatic headphones and discovering/rediscovering music of all types, old and new. Use them in good health but be warned, it is easy to play them too loud and hurt your hearing. The low distortion may tempt you to turn them up. Start at a low volume for 10 to 15 minutes or so, where you are straining a bit to hear all the musical details, while reading or being distracted by something else (e.g. responding to this forum), then adjust only if necessary. You may find that the lowered volume is more than sufficient. You will also find thet if you sensitize yourself at a lower volume first the headphones ('er, earspeakers) take on a magical quality sounding so effortless in their presentation and virtually unlimited dynamic range.


 
Aug 23, 2004 at 1:57 AM Post #7 of 162
I have a conflicting opinion on the Stax 2020 system based on what I heard at a meet. It had good detail and clarity as well as the signature Stax soundstage, and I thought the dynamics were just as good as on my Senn 580's though they had less impact from the lower midrange on down. It rocked to the Tea Party and even tolerated Metallica, but it just did something wonky to female vocals which bugged the hell out of me, and which the Stax 4040 didn't do.

For whatever reason, female vocals sounded kinda thin & sucked out. As detailed as the voices sounded they didn't have the fullness I got from other headphones (including the Stax 4040) and they sounded kinda cold & artificial. At first I thought it was my CD, but after going through 5 CD's by 5 different artists and changing sources, it still had the same problem.

Overall I thought they did everything pretty well (except my female vocals) given the price, but unfortunately that one issue is a very high priority for me so they don't work for me. I agree with your overall impressions of them but they're just not my thing.

Further notes. The RS-1, given proper amplification can match a Stax 4040 system in detail & clarity while having the warmer sound I prefer. It will not have the Stax soundstage but it will have more impact and bass groove. Unfortunately proper amplification costs more than an entire Stax 4040 system...
 
Aug 23, 2004 at 2:05 AM Post #8 of 162
Quote:

Originally Posted by Beagle
Sennheiser HD650 vs. Stax 2020 Basic System: a comparison



So I got my headphone epiphany and am going to go for The Stax 2020 Basic System.



Of course they're better. Why are you surprised? I'm not!
lambda.gif
 
Aug 23, 2004 at 2:35 AM Post #9 of 162
Nice review/comparo Beagle. Glad to see that you've found something you really like.

By the way, have you tried the 650 with other amps? I've found that my stax system (404/007t) came up short when compared with the 650. After prolonged listening periods with the stax, I always ended up feeling like something was missing. On the hand, the Stealth/650 combo is just right.

Mike, why am I not surprised by your presence and comment on this thread?
wink.gif
I guess you just can't teach an old dog new tricks.
 
Aug 23, 2004 at 2:48 AM Post #10 of 162
Quote:

Originally Posted by darkclouds
Nice review/comparo Beagle. Glad to see that you've found something you really like.

By the way, have you tried the 650 with other amps? I've found that my stax system (404/007t) came up short when compared with the 650. After prolonged listening periods with the stax, I always ended up feeling like something was missing. On the hand, the Stealth/650 combo is just right.

Mike, why am I not surprised by your presence and comment on this thread?
wink.gif
I guess you just can't teach an old dog new tricks.



What was missing? The distortion. You're so used to it, you miss it. Listen to the Stax straight through for a month, and your ears/brain will get cleaned out.

Why even bother with such a comparison? It's pointless.
 
Aug 23, 2004 at 2:57 AM Post #11 of 162
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Scarpitti
What was missing? The distortion. You're so used to it, you miss it. Listen to the Stax straight through for a month, and your ears/brain will get cleaned out.

Why even bother with such a comparison? It's pointless.



Sorry buddy, I've owned the Stax for quite sometime. And I did listened to them for a couple of months straight, just to let the new toy excitement wear out.

It's become quite clear that you've not experienced good to excellent dynamic headphones and headphone amps. What you need to do is get rid of your craptacular dynamic cans and get something of a much higher caliber like the 650 and match it with one of the recommended dynamic amps. Then again, you've proven to be quite pompous and narrow minded that I doubt you'd be able to learn anything new.
 
Aug 23, 2004 at 1:03 PM Post #12 of 162
Quote:

Originally Posted by aerius
Further notes. The RS-1, given proper amplification can match a Stax 4040 system in detail & clarity while having the warmer sound I prefer. It will not have the Stax soundstage but it will have more impact and bass groove. Unfortunately proper amplification costs more than an entire Stax 4040 system...


Ah but they can match the 404/313 system in soundstage too (with the right ic, and the 404/313 system with a different ic). Not a fair test really. :p


I thought the 404/313 was nice and linear with no bass hump. The highs really didn't do anything for me, like the highs with omega 2/kgss did. On a budget, nothing meets 404/313 price-performance-ratio in my opinion.

The stax 202 system is like a tease...

Biggie.
 
Aug 23, 2004 at 1:24 PM Post #13 of 162
Quote:

Originally Posted by darkclouds
By the way, have you tried the 650 with other amps? I've found that my stax system (404/007t) came up short when compared with the 650. After prolonged listening periods with the stax, I always ended up feeling like something was missing. On the hand, the Stealth/650 combo is just right.


I've heard the 650 through the Max, Rega Ear and RA-1, and one other tubed amp, whose name escapes me for the moment. I just seem to prefer the clarity and transparency of the Stax. The 650 sounded a bit bloated and foggy in comparison, mostly in the mid to upper bass.
 
Aug 23, 2004 at 2:06 PM Post #14 of 162
Quote:

Originally Posted by darkclouds
Sorry buddy, I've owned the Stax for quite sometime. And I did listened to them for a couple of months straight, just to let the new toy excitement wear out.

It's become quite clear that you've not experienced good to excellent dynamic headphones and headphone amps. What you need to do is get rid of your craptacular dynamic cans and get something of a much higher caliber like the 650 and match it with one of the recommended dynamic amps. Then again, you've proven to be quite pompous and narrow minded that I doubt you'd be able to learn anything new.



I'll let Beagle speak for me. It would a complete waste of my time even to think about listening to dynamic phones as serious competion to the Stax.
 
Aug 23, 2004 at 2:15 PM Post #15 of 162
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Scarpitti
Why even bother with such a comparison? It's pointless.


Because, not everyone can afford Stax, and - in some cases (such as my own, with a very brief audition) I just did not like the core sound at all... utterly vile!

Then again, give me an Orpheus, and i'll be a very happy camper, one fantastic sounding rig
biggrin.gif
 

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