[muzic4life]

Hi guys. Thank you for the feedbacks. Just spoke to the seller..Lucky me i am allowed to have it try and refund it if not satisfied with the cable. So i guess i will find out my self if there will be any improvement with the silver cable. But i still think the improvement will not be as high as its price tag

@longbowbbs
Just read your review about the cable. Very good detail review btw. According to your review it looks like the replacement cable is definitely improving the sound. And according to friend of mine silver cable is able to improve the clarity and detail of sound. So i might agree to this point. Let see after i recieved mine. Oh..btw...i prefer the looks of your cable than alo silver cable

 

[dgriffter]

For all those considering these phones who are worried about the treble issue, I wouldn't say the treble was rolled off, more just not in your face. I mean, when I was debating whether or not to get hd650s, I was worried about it sounding muffled or treble-less. I thought that I would have to spend maybe 1000 big ones on an amp just to make them sound ok. 
 
For the record, I find the hd650s incredibly detailed, and I can hear all the cymbals, hi hats, guitar strokes, etc.; it's just not the most prominent frequency area. I don't find any recordings that I know of, where I think, "Damn, can't hear this, or can't hear that". On the contrary, quite the opposite - I am hearing things I never heard before, and in a presentation that makes me just think, "Wow, this track is jeffing excellent". 
 
I will though say, that listening through the fiio e10 (no offence, it is great with my denons), the hd650s simply do not sound their best. I will also say that they sound veiled. Yes, I said it. 
 
My setup, is a modest mac/pc -> hrt ms2 -> matrix m-stage -> hd650
 
I was considering upgrading either dac and/or amp before I received my hd650s, but I just feel there is simply not the need right now. 
 
I am just going to enjoy my music...
 
...for now

 

[longbowbbs]

Quote:

Hi guys. Thank you for the feedbacks. Just spoke to the seller..Lucky me i am allowed to have it try and refund it if not satisfied with the cable. So i guess i will find out my self if there will be any improvement with the silver cable. But i still think the improvement will not be as high as its price tag

@longbowbbs
Just read your review about the cable. Very good detail review btw. According to your review it looks like the replacement cable is definitely improving the sound. And according to friend of mine silver cable is able to improve the clarity and detail of sound. So i might agree to this point. Let see after i recieved mine. Oh..btw...i prefer the looks of your cable than alo silver cable

I will say that caracara08's advice about getting to know the stock cable is good. It is useful to know what you are improving and how the sound differs...
 
They are nice looking cables. Frank does excellent work.

 

[MattTCG]

^^ You might also looks through the used accessories forum here. There are often custom cables for this hp there at half their original cost. Certainly worth a look. 

 

[musicismagic]

Decided to post my own impressions about HD650. There is a lot of stuff said about these cans, the words that appear most frequently are "warm, mellow, smooth, laid-back".[size=8.5pt][/size]
 

While I certainly agree with these characterizations, I would like to add some description that, I think, is even more accurate.
[size=8.5pt][/size]
 

First and foremost, the sound from HD650 is SOFT. During a drumbeat, it sounds like the drum has a thin cushion layer on it. In contrast, the sound from any Grado is shrill: when it hits my ear, it feels like a dentist drilling through my brain
[size=8.5pt][/size]
This artificial softness of HD650 (yes, it is artificial, the original music in the studio will not sound like that) makes many people describe HD650 as veiled.[size=8.5pt][/size]
 

Second, the sound from HD650 is COLORFUL. Imagine two TV pictures: one has more brightness and the other has richer color. HD600/800, AKG, Grado all have a brighter picture; HD650 has a more coloful picture. My ears get sore from all the bright high frequencies in the other headphones, such music presentation does not deliver more detail, nor does it make listening experience particularly pleasant. I often have the impression that high frequencies carry significantly more variation and information in HD650 while in other headphones, they sound flat and harsh. I actually think it's an artefact of digital recording which HD650 magnificently correct.
[size=8.5pt][/size]
 

But the most apt description of the HD650 sound came from my father. When he listened to them, he said that their sound is DAMP. Just like when a person coughs, his cough can be dry or with some moisture (called "productive cough", I think). HD650 adds this dampness to the sound making it very pleasant to my ear. In contrast, Grados deliver very dry sound and HD600 are not as dry but much drier that HD650. If you like your crackers with milk or tea, you should enjoy HD650 sound signature. My father did not like the dampness.
[size=8.5pt][/size]
 

To sum up, HD650 are very unusual headphones. They make alterations to the music that are too obvious to call them "high-fidelity". But I realized that fidelity or accuracy does not equal enjoyment. This is especially true with low quality recordings. HD650 makes them sing and puts soul into them, something that no other equipment - phones or speakers - does. To me, HD650 are a masterpiece of engineering.
 
 

P.S. Actually, may be someone here can recommend a speaker system with similar sound qualities as HD650? I've been looking for smth like that for ages. Thank you!
[size=8.5pt][/size]

 

[MattTCG]

Interesting analogies and first post. 

 Welcome to headfi and "sorry about your wallet." Now go out and buy a real amp for that 650 so that you can really hear what they sound like. 

 
Welcome to the club...
 
Matt

 

[jazzerdave]

Quote:

 
P.S. Actually, may be someone here can recommend a speaker system with similar sound qualities as HD650? I've been looking for smth like that for ages. Thank you!
[size=8.5pt][/size]

 
High budget -
     - Leben CS-300 / CS-300XS / CS-600 integrated amp.
     - Harbeth Super HL5 speakers.
 
Low budget -
     - Peachtree iDecco integrated amp.
     - Advent Loudspeakers
 
Those are just a couple of suggestions.  There are plenty of mid-centric musical speakers out there and plenty of complimentary components.

 

[iowercase]

Quote:

But the most apt description of the HD650 sound came from my father. When he listened to them, he said that their sound is DAMP.
[size=8.5pt][/size]

 
Very interesting.  I was just making some preliminary observations about the HD650 vs. Mad Dogs vs. HE400 (finally I can start comparing them!), and one of the first phrases that came to my mind to describe HD650 was 'very dry'.  Not analytically dry or harshly dry like the sands of the sahara, but more dry like a turkish bath towel fresh out of the dryer.  Invitingly fuzzy-fresh.
 
Though it may not be a fair comparison when the two other contenders are both orthos.  I know the ortho sound has often been said to have a certain 'liquid' aspect to it as compared to dynamics.

 

[Synergist969]

  Dear musicismagic:
 
    I too own Senn. HD650's, and very much appreciate the mid-hall, (orchestral type concert hall), timbre and presentation they generate.  In fact, I like it so much that I subsequently purchased a pair of Lipinski Sound 707 monitor speakers, which, driven by an Aragon 4004 amp, fed by an Audio Research LS3 pre-amp, generate a remarkably similar sound signature to my beloved 650's...( of course though the electronics behind the speakers will have some effect, I don't think that they make or break these speakers inherent qualities), and I am sure that the Harbeths are also wonderful speakers, and might just fit the bill perfectly.  The 707's are VERY flat, ( 27Hz to 20kHz +-2dB), however, I do cross them over to dedicated subs at 60Hz, but they still sound very robust down deep on their own, though the HD650's certainly go deeper/fuller in the very low bass region...
 
    In any event, enjoy your search...
 
Peace,
T.A.K.        

 

[Aerocraft67]

I've been enjoying my 650s with my Denon AVR-1712 and right out of the Macbook (running iTunes/Bitperfect). But after only a month, I'm hot to upgrade. Using the AVR ties up the home theater (our main TV), and moving about the house expands my listening time, so portability is useful, and it's pretty clear that better performance can be had be had at a reasonable investment. I've read all the reviews and searched the threads about six times over and came up with the following plan:
 
1) Audioquest Dragonfly ($250)
2) Schiit Magni ($100), 
3) iFi iUSBPower ($200)
 
The idea is to get a complete package with step 1, enjoy each step, and appreciate upgrades to subsequent steps, while maintaining expenditures in bite-size increments that won't unreasonably disrupt the family budget. The result should be a respectable desktop rig with a completely portable module for less than $500. From there I can rinse and repeat with step 1, upgrading to the next hot DAC, perhaps a more hefty (non-portable) one, reasoning that the DAC price/performance is advancing faster than amplification and power conditioning, and I could use it with the home theater speakers. I could also skip step 3 and put that money toward the new DAC. And I could bump step 2) up to an Asgard for another $150. 
 
I actually suspect a Modi/Magni stack would be a better value than the Dragonfly. The Modi/Magni design budget is far less constrained by size than the Dragonfly's, leaving more room for performance at the price. And the stack is cheaper. But you need to plug it into a wall, and moving the stack around the house is undesirably fiddly. Although most serious listening will be convenient to a wall outlet, I don't really have a fixed listening position at home. At the same time, having a dedicated amp on hand should offer a worthwhile boost to the Dragonfly when the primary listening station is available. 
 
The iFi iDAC is an intriguing portable DAC/amp combo that's USB powered, and brings 192 kHz capability to the party. But since the Dragonfly and Modi explicitly don't offer 192 kHz because of an unfavorable trade-off in price/performance, it makes you wonder what sacrifice iFi had to make to get there. And the iUSBPower suggests that the iDAC is lacking without it, so you're really looking at $500, plus wall power. And, ifi appears to have availability problems with the iDAC. And it's $50 more than the Dragonfly ($100 more than the Shiit stack). But it shares a size "advantage" over the Dragonfly. 
 
I could also use some time and budget to build up my lossless music file collection. I still rely on a lot of 320 kbps material. So no need to get a four-figure rig right out of the gate. I also need to get a proper network attached storage server at some point to expand the library. Which is another $300. Sorry about your wallet, indeed. And I should probably boost my listening/research ratio a bit.
 
Anyway, thought I'd bounce these thoughts off the 650 club to solicit thoughts and maybe shorten the research cycle for others. 

 

[MattTCG]

^^ You might consider the lyr for pairing with the hd650. It's my end game amp and I think that the pair is tremendous. You can get a mint used on here for about $350.
 
Also if you are a DIY'er, check out the kit for the bottlehead crack. I personally haven't built one but lot's of guys here love it.
 
Oh, and welcome to headfi...sorry about your wallet. 

 

[Barry S]

The Magni & Modi are a very solid match for the HD650--I like the synergy a lot.  The HD650 improves as you feed it with better components, but M&M are a very satisfying and solid start.  As Matt mentioned, the Lyr is a great choice, but probably exceeds your budget and although compact, is a bit large to easily move around constantly.  The M&M are small enough to easily move around--I do on a regular basis and it's not a hassle.  If you have a couple main listening spots, I might see about getting a second wall wart--I'm going to check on this myself.
 
I haven't heard your other two choices, but the Dragonfly has a pretty good reputation.  If size and space are your primary concerns, it would be worth considering.  No idea about the iFi, but I think the 24/192 sampling is a red herring.  Schiit likely chose the 24/96 limit to avoid the installation of a separate driver--and a lot of tech support that would make the $99 Modi a non-viable product.  A well-encoded 320 kbps file is a very high quality source--I can't even imagine that 24/96 would be limiting unless you have hypersensitive hearing and the best equipment in the world.

 

[joebobbilly]

I wouldn't sweat it about the 192kHz capability.  If you're still using itunes to rip lossless from regular cds, the files will still be 16 bit/44.1kHz.  So unless you're doing SACDs or high quality studio grade tracks (like purchasing the ones from HD Tracks) then your DAC will only be handling 44.1 kHz. And since you probably don't wanna be upsampling, then even 96 kHz will be above what you need.
 
Personally, to me the HD 650s are not suitable as a portable solution, they're open (not good for anything out of your home) and not exactly designed to weather the elements of outdoors/travel.  So I'd say you should stick with more of a desktop solution... the M&M combo from Schitt seems to be your best bet for budget performance from what the reviews here say.  I have the Fiio e09k/e17 combo (~$250 new), which is nice cause I use the e17 as a portable solution with my IEMs and then at home for my HD650s I stick it back in the dock on the e09k and run foobar from my PC via TOSLINK.  Had this rig for about 6 months now, and it's the best my ears have heard thus far (although MattTCG is always tempting me with the Lyr

)

 

[Aerocraft67]

Quote:

The M&M are small enough to easily move around--I do on a regular basis and it's not a hassle.  If you have a couple main listening spots, I might see about getting a second wall wart--I'm going to check on this myself.

 
I actually did think of the extra wall wart, but drifted away from the idea. Given your favorable experience with porting the M&M stack around the house, I may reconsider. Having done all the research, something appeals to me more about the M&M than the DF on some existential level. Maybe its the marketing, or just a more attractive set of kit. 
 
I don't have a fixed listening station, but there are really only two rooms in which I'd do any serious listening, three at most. I'd be tethered to the laptop anyway, subsequently tethered to wall power for listening sessions that exceed the laptop battery power. 
 
I can also live without portability outside the home. I have the HD 239 for truly mobile listening and don't require a DAC/amp upgrade for that.
 
Sounds like the Magni power supply is somewhat custom, and that Schiit's manufacturing and distribution operation is quite lean and potentially ill-suited for special requests. But Schiit still has that small-and-nimble company vibe about it, so hopefully it can sell an extra wart with purchase, or recommend a suitable aftermarket alternative. 

 

[Barry S]

Quote:

 
I actually did think of the extra wall wart, but drifted away from the idea. Given your favorable experience with porting the M&M stack around the house, I may reconsider. Having done all the research, something appeals to me more about the M&M than the DF on some existential level. Maybe its the marketing, or just a more attractive set of kit. 
 
I don't have a fixed listening station, but there are really only two rooms in which I'd do any serious listening, three at most. I'd be tethered to the laptop anyway, subsequently tethered to wall power for listening sessions that exceed the laptop battery power. 
 
I can also live without portability outside the home. I have the HD 239 for truly mobile listening and don't require a DAC/amp upgrade for that.
 
Sounds like the Magni power supply is somewhat custom, and that Schiit's manufacturing and distribution operation is quite lean and potentially ill-suited for special requests. But Schiit still has that small-and-nimble company vibe about it, so hopefully it can sell an extra wart with purchase, or recommend a suitable aftermarket alternative. 

 
I think you'll be happy pairing the HD650 with the M&M.  The stack can easily be picked up and moved with one hand--and besides sounding great--it looks really nice on a desk or table.  The folks at Schiit seem pretty reasonable, so it shouldn't be impossible to get a spare power supply--have to email them and see, though.  No doubt the Chinese factory supplying them could make 10,000 in a week.