[canoners]

Holy... I was listening to classical pieces and I heard this constant weird noise. Turned out it was the flute/oboe players tapping their instruments. o_O

 

[Satellite_6]

tdockweiler's comments really interest me. Someone else who thinks the HD 650's sound bright! I agree the FR graphs are completely useless. I'll have to try the HD 600's sometime if they really are darker than the HD 650's. . . this is against the conventional wisdom. . .
 
 
 

 

[pp312]

 
Quote:

The tilt of the 650 shown here is why, at least to me, these sound way more lifelike than the 880, which sounds unbearably bright to my ears.  

 
Yes.
 
Unbearably.

 

[pp312]

Quote:

tdockweiler's comments really interest me. Someone else who thinks the HD 650's sound bright! I agree the FR graphs are completely useless.
 

The FR graphs are not completely useless; they're simply another tool in the effort to correlate subjective with objective. As I've said, I found they agree with my subjective impressions sometimes quite remarkably, and others have said the same, too many in fact for it to be mere coincidence. Still others don't hear much correlation at all, which only confirms that we all listen differently and to different things. But FR graphs are by no means useless.   
 
 

 

[tdockweiler]

Yesterday I was listening to my HD-650 for quite a long time and they were kind of tiring my ears out fast and they just didn't sound the same as I remembered and my ears were ringing when I got done. The next day everything was back to normal and no problems at all. Turns out I was just very very tired or stressed out. It could have been the weather too. I know that sounds crazy, but some small things can effect someone's hearing. Even allergies!
 
I still think my pair is bright, but never fatiguing in any way unless I'm tired or stressed out. When some of my music is really brightly mastered and harsh sounding, my HD-650 always plays it as it should be without trying to "fix" it. My HD-600 seemed to do that at times. I like the fact that they're bright. They're not excessively bright for me and still perfectly fine for listening to for up to 8 hours. I still do feel that the HD-600 is less bright than my new HD-650 (white screen version). My HD-650 is definitely brighter than my HD-598, but not my AD700 to my ears.
 
I read on Headphonia (I believe?) that the HD-650 might now be easier to drive. I think it's a bit strange that my Total Airhead can drive the HD-650 to VERY loud levels without it's blinking over-voltage red light going off. On my HD-600 it went off so fast. I don't use the Airhead to drive them at all ever though since it's just a portable amp but quite powerful for the price.
 
I'd like to try the HD-600 again, but I wonder if they have the clarity and detail of the HD-650? My old pair didn't that's for sure. Sound was kind of muffled too. Same amp and everything. I'd be nice to compare both of them. Going on just my memory I do like my HD-650 a LOT more than my old HD-600 I got in early 2010. I now have to question if my old HD-600 wasn't the updated version.
 
I hate to say it, but I could have sworn I heard some recording hiss in my AD700, but not on my HD-650 with one song. This makes me sad

Ok, not really, but it was interesting. I could care less about recording hiss I guess. I still get it on my HD-650. I like the fact that the HD-650 to me has a ton of detail, but isn't really excessive.
 
Still miss my ATH-AD2000. It's just so much different and I preferred it for acoustic music. It's just not the same on the HD-650, but good enough. I never thought I'd say it, but sometimes the thinner sound of the AD2000 is nice. I never thought I'd be saying that since I often felt that was a negative, but not always. AD2000 fans will hate this, but I prefer female vocals on the HD-650! Still feel the AD2000 is more detailed though, but maybe not as clear overall.
 
BTW I find it funny how the DT-800 and HD-650 graphs are so similar. DT-880 and HD-650 might make a good pair. They're both similar, but yet still different. I know that makes no sense! I've been through all versions and preferred the 250 ohm version.
 
Does anyone know if the HD-650's soundstage is larger than that of the DT-880? Be honest

I remember when I had the DT-880 I was always dissapointed by it's soundstage. I want to try it again with gaming since the HD-650 is worthless for me with gaming.
 
Sorry, all random weird rambling. I'm bored.
 
 
Quote:

tdockweiler's comments really interest me. Someone else who thinks the HD 650's sound bright! I agree the FR graphs are completely useless. I'll have to try the HD 600's sometime if they really are darker than the HD 650's. . . this is against the conventional wisdom. . .
 
 
 

 

 

[Shahrose]

Upgrade your equipment and try the 650s out of different gear. If you hear sibilance on a pair of 650s, then something else in your chain is causing it, be it the transport, DAC, amp or cables.
 
The 650s are a bit harder to drive than the 600s and demand more *quality* amplification (and source signal).
 
The soundstage of the 650s will depend on the upstream gear, so it can be smaller or larger than that of the DT880s depending on the ancillaries. It has the potential to be quite a bit larger if that helps.
 
BTW, FR graphs are actually pretty useful. You just need to know how to use them properly. Don't ignore seemingly small variations between the 2 curves, which you seem to be doing judging by your assessment of the 880 and 650 graphs. All of those differences are important and usually audible IME.

 

[mikenike]

 
Quote:

Holy... I was listening to classical pieces and I heard this constant weird noise. Turned out it was the flute/oboe players tapping their instruments. o_O

LOL, cool! I'm not sure if that really adds to the music, it sure is hard to block out once you notice it, that's for sure. My example is with "Sunset on Lake Pontchartrain" by Alexandre Desplat for the film The Curious Case of Benjamin Button. Here and there would be this... I don't know, arpeggiation, I guess you could call it, made by a woodwind, but with the 650, you can actually hear the buttons closing the holes in each note during arpeggiation! It was amazing at first, but now it just proves distracting because I can't even block it out to just hearing the woodwind timbres. But this song goes on my demo list just because of that, to see if other headphones can replicate it.
 

 

[dsio]

Just got my HD650's today (used few years old), running FLAC tracks through a Xonar D2X -> 12 year old Denon AV receiver -> HD650
 
Staggering improvement over the HD595s, just night and day.  So much more comfortable, so much more bass and lower mid range.  I was expecting the Denon AV receiver to be hopeless with the HD650s as I had to run 90% output to get reasonable audio out of the HD595s, on the HD650s I've had to back it down to about half that, which is the opposite of what I was expecting.
 
I'd thought the Denon would be hopeless at driving the HD650s but its definitely a huge step up as it is.  Are old AV receivers just well suited to driving high impedance phones, or do you think there's still a huge room for improvement with a dedicated tube amp?  I've never heard any better, so I can't really tell =\
 
Wow though, wish I'd never bothered with the 595s.

 

[Brent Hutto]

Just got my HD650's today (used few years old), running FLAC tracks through a Xonar D2X -> 12 year old Denon AV receiver -> HD650...Staggering improvement over the HD595s, just night and day.  So much more comfortable, so much more bass and lower mid range.

I've had an HD595 for 5-6 years and my slightly-used HD650 is due to arrive today. I could have lived without seeing the above-quoted comment right now...my expectation were already too high as it was!

Are old AV receivers just well suited to driving high impedance phones, or do you think there's still a huge room for improvement with a dedicated tube amp?

I don't have a real old A/V receiver but when I get a chance I will try my '650 plugged in to our fairly recent Onkyo home-theater unit. I was very disappointed with the '595 used that way, the bass was terribly bloated and the overall sound quality was rather closed-off and not distinct. So I recently acquired one of those Schiit Asgard ampliers and as expected it has been a revelation. I previously used the HD595 with a little portable amp which also improved the sound but nothing at all like the (Class A, discrete MOSfet) Asgard.

 

[Shahrose]

Quote:

Just got my HD650's today (used few years old), running FLAC tracks through a Xonar D2X -> 12 year old Denon AV receiver -> HD650
 
Staggering improvement over the HD595s, just night and day.  So much more comfortable, so much more bass and lower mid range.  I was expecting the Denon AV receiver to be hopeless with the HD650s as I had to run 90% output to get reasonable audio out of the HD595s, on the HD650s I've had to back it down to about half that, which is the opposite of what I was expecting.
 
I'd thought the Denon would be hopeless at driving the HD650s but its definitely a huge step up as it is.  Are old AV receivers just well suited to driving high impedance phones, or do you think there's still a huge room for improvement with a dedicated tube amp?  I've never heard any better, so I can't really tell =\
 
Wow though, wish I'd never bothered with the 595s.

Definitely a significant jump in performance from the 595s to the 650s. As for old receivers, it really depends on the quality and brand. I've found that 70s and 80s high quality integrated amps can and do sound better than most headphone amps. A lot of vintage/old receivers sound good too.
 
If it sounds good to you right now, chances are it is good.
 

 

[dsio]

Its a late 1990's Denon avr-1601, but I'm not sure how it would rate, did a quick search and found:
 
 
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/9414/denon-avr-1601-headphone-jack
 
 
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/148252/dedicated-headphone-amp-vs-ht-receiver-amp
 

Not sure how the Corda rates, but if its on par with that, that's pretty decent luck having it laying around.  I'm still inclined to get something like a higher end single ended tube amp, but yea, for the moment I'm fairly impressed with how well the Denon AV receiver is pushing them, its NOT bad at all.
 
BTW Brent, I had my HD595s about the same length of time, and I also found them to benefit very little from the Denon, they sound no better off that than off the sound-card's jack.  The HD595's had noticeable clipping on the bass out of the Denon, and somewhere in the 2k-4k range there was a spear that spiked you in the ear when you played certain tracks.  Same amp, track, and source, and the HD650s will cause pain before the bass clips.  
 
Is there a reason why I'd be finding the HD650s to be noticeably louder at each given volume than the HD595s were off the Denon amp?
 
 
 
Quote:

Definitely a significant jump in performance from the 595s to the 650s. As for old receivers, it really depends on the quality and brand. I've found that 70s and 80s high quality integrated amps can and do sound better than most headphone amps. A lot of vintage/old receivers sound good too.
 
If it sounds good to you right now, chances are it is good.
 

 

 

[Brent Hutto]

Well the generic answer for 50-ohm 'phones versus 300-ohm ones would be that the Denon has plenty of voltage capability but limited current sourcing capacity. If I'm thinking clearly at this hour of the morning that comes from either a large source impedance (say 30+ ohms) or from an op-amp type output that has current limiting built into it, which is the same as a very large source impedance. Or something like that.

 

[Satellite_6]

 
Quote:

Yesterday I was listening to my HD-650 for quite a long time and they were kind of tiring my ears out fast and they just didn't sound the same as I remembered and my ears were ringing when I got done. The next day everything was back to normal and no problems at all. Turns out I was just very very tired or stressed out. It could have been the weather too. I know that sounds crazy, but some small things can effect someone's hearing. Even allergies!
 
I still think my pair is bright, but never fatiguing in any way unless I'm tired or stressed out. When some of my music is really brightly mastered and harsh sounding, my HD-650 always plays it as it should be without trying to "fix" it. My HD-600 seemed to do that at times. I like the fact that they're bright. They're not excessively bright for me and still perfectly fine for listening to for up to 8 hours. I still do feel that the HD-600 is less bright than my new HD-650 (white screen version). My HD-650 is definitely brighter than my HD-598, but not my AD700 to my ears.
 
I read on Headphonia (I believe?) that the HD-650 might now be easier to drive. I think it's a bit strange that my Total Airhead can drive the HD-650 to VERY loud levels without it's blinking over-voltage red light going off. On my HD-600 it went off so fast. I don't use the Airhead to drive them at all ever though since it's just a portable amp but quite powerful for the price.
 
I'd like to try the HD-600 again, but I wonder if they have the clarity and detail of the HD-650? My old pair didn't that's for sure. Sound was kind of muffled too. Same amp and everything. I'd be nice to compare both of them. Going on just my memory I do like my HD-650 a LOT more than my old HD-600 I got in early 2010. I now have to question if my old HD-600 wasn't the updated version.
 
I hate to say it, but I could have sworn I heard some recording hiss in my AD700, but not on my HD-650 with one song. This makes me sad

Ok, not really, but it was interesting. I could care less about recording hiss I guess. I still get it on my HD-650. I like the fact that the HD-650 to me has a ton of detail, but isn't really excessive.
 
Still miss my ATH-AD2000. It's just so much different and I preferred it for acoustic music. It's just not the same on the HD-650, but good enough. I never thought I'd say it, but sometimes the thinner sound of the AD2000 is nice. I never thought I'd be saying that since I often felt that was a negative, but not always. AD2000 fans will hate this, but I prefer female vocals on the HD-650! Still feel the AD2000 is more detailed though, but maybe not as clear overall.
 
BTW I find it funny how the DT-800 and HD-650 graphs are so similar. DT-880 and HD-650 might make a good pair. They're both similar, but yet still different. I know that makes no sense! I've been through all versions and preferred the 250 ohm version.
 
Does anyone know if the HD-650's soundstage is larger than that of the DT-880? Be honest

I remember when I had the DT-880 I was always dissapointed by it's soundstage. I want to try it again with gaming since the HD-650 is worthless for me with gaming.
 
Sorry, all random weird rambling. I'm bored.
 
 


 

Very well, I'll revise my comment to FR graphs are *almost* useless. My HD 650's do not sound anything like the headroom graph.
 
Thanks for your comments. . . I've had the same problem with the HD 650's being fatiguing, but only on occasion. I think my cheap DAC/amp powers them just fine. There might not even be two versions of the HD 600's you know, I read some comments here that they all sound the same. On the other hand, I don't think the difference between people thinking the HD 650's are dark or quite bright make any sense, so I reckon there are two versions. In the end though I suppose we can reckon all day and we might never know for sure. If the HD 600's really aren't as good as the HD 650's I guess I'll stick to my heavily EQ'd HD 650's. When I get angry at their brightness I can always go to my nice dull K 601's I suppose.
 
BTW I think they're great for gaming if you turn down the treble s**tloads (and that's basically what I do for music to).
 
EDIT: btw the EQ seeting I'm using in foobar is like:
 
-1, -2, -2, -2, -2, -1, -1, 0, 0, 0, 0, -1, -2, -3, -4, -5, -6, -5. . .
 
One more thing, what do you think of the HD 600's soundstage?
 
 
 

 

[canoners]

 

LOL, cool! I'm not sure if that really adds to the music, it sure is hard to block out once you notice it, that's for sure. My example is with "Sunset on Lake Pontchartrain" by Alexandre Desplat for the film The Curious Case of Benjamin Button. Here and there would be this... I don't know, arpeggiation, I guess you could call it, made by a woodwind, but with the 650, you can actually hear the buttons closing the holes in each note during arpeggiation! It was amazing at first, but now it just proves distracting because I can't even block it out to just hearing the woodwind timbres. But this song goes on my demo list just because of that, to see if other headphones can replicate it.
 

Yeah, it's kinda annoying to listen to

 

[golffnutt]

Just bought the 650's, can't wait to hear them.  Was wondering if there are any mods out there or if they would benefit from an aftermarket cable.  If an aftermarket cable would be a good idea then please feel free to recommend model numbers and brands that would be within my budget of say $200.  I would really appreciate any info like this as a new 650 owner.  Thank you so much for your help.
 
golffnutt