[Stompy]

The 600 will give you your well etched guitars for sure

Yes but the upper mids are so painfully boosted on the 600 so listening to distorted guitar is painful, and according to Metal571 you can't even EQ the grain away in the upper mids, so even if you lower them it will still be painful. I'll give an example of what I like: on my Bori the upper mids are lightning fast (like the rest of the headphone) and very clear, but at the same time it isn't super boosted or anything. It gives me all the upsides without any of the downsides, the 580 is also very close in this aspect of being clear but not too much in terms of quantity. While it isn't as fast as the Bori the 580's mids are much, MUCH more clear than the 650, while also not beeing so intense that they can't even be fixed with EQ (600).

I think I'm a somewhat picky guy, but more than anything the music I listen to forces me to be picky, as it's painfully obvious when something doesn't gel well with metal. I've heard plenty of headphones in other genres, thought they were nice, then tried listening to metal on them and just went "ew". I love, LOVE the natural sounds of ZMFs, but they're just too laid back for my liking in metal, as an example, or the aggro upper mids of a 600.

 

[equalspeace]

a few years back when I had the older model 600 I couldn't deal with them because of the piercing upper mids. now whether because I'm older and less sensitive to it, or something changed from the Senn in how they intend for the newer model 600 to sound, they really don't bother me at all. only time I was able to bring out the upper mid glare on the 600 recently was when I tried a Silver plated copper cable with them

 

[megabigeye]

Anybody know if the Sennheiser website an okay place to order from? I need a new headband pad, and the only other places I can find that stock them charge almost twice as much (or more).

 

[CaptainFantastic]

Anybody know if the Sennheiser website an okay place to order from? I need a new headband pad, and the only other places I can find that stock them charge almost twice as much (or more).

Yes, in Europe they offer free shipping, free returns and it gets here via UPS in 2 days or so. I highly recommend ordering your spare parts from them. Headphones on the other hand... it always baffles me that you can find them (much) cheaper on Thomann or Amazon then direct on their very own site. Part of their downfall and demise I suppose.

 

[megabigeye]

Yes, in Europe they offer free shipping, free returns and it gets here via UPS in 2 days or so. I highly recommend ordering your spare parts from them. Headphones on the other hand... it always baffles me that you can find them (much) cheaper on Thomann or Amazon then direct on their very own site. Part of their downfall and demise I suppose.

Thanks for the reply.

I should have specified that I'm in the US. I think I'll just bite the bullet and hope for the best. It's only $12, so no big deal.

 

[SolaVirtus]

Anybody know if the Sennheiser website an okay place to order from? I need a new headband pad, and the only other places I can find that stock them charge almost twice as much (or more).

I'm not sure where you're located, but they have a US outlet I've ordered from. Pads a couple times and a whole new HD650 headband/yolk. Pretty easy process, with an actual human customer service rep to talk to.

 

[megabigeye]

I'm not sure where you're located, but they have a US outlet I've ordered from. Pads a couple times and a whole new HD650 headband/yolk. Pretty easy process, with an actual human customer service rep to talk to.

Good to know. Thanks!

 

[Strat1117]

Honestly, one of my favorite things about the 6xx is its mids. I always come back to it even though it’s more laid back. I just wish it had more dynamics and punchy bass.

Assuming the 6xx is in fact comparable to the 650 (I’m assuming it is, so don’t get defensive), it is plenty punchy and dynamic. You need to realize that they are 300 ohm headphones, with a very complicated and dynamic resistance curve which will highlight the flaws in any amp that doesn’t have the chops. They need a serious amp that can keep delivering power in the face of an old vet-changing changing high impedance load in order to give their best, and their best is near as good as it gets. The bass on the 650 is not fuzzy or mushy unless your amp is running out of juice trying to drive it. I’m using an old Burson Soloist (class A, solid state). It’s old, but it’s up to the task. Not only does it drive the bass exquisitely, it’s ever so slightly analytical treble is a perfect match for the 650s ever so slightly soft treble. Midrange is liquid and luscious and, as always, the star of the show. IMHO, this is a complementary combination of two very good components complementing each other to achieve superb results. I find the 650s in this set up much more satisfying overall than, among other things: Audeze LCD-X, HiFiMan Ananda, Sundara, and HE560, Focal Elear and even a great pair of marble HD600s, modified with custom cans copper weights and leather earpads with all foam removed. The HD650s are the real deal - but you need to run them off a powerful, stable solid state amp or, I am reliably informed, an OTL tube amp (which naturally thrives on high impedance loads BUT will not likely give you the details you seek - albeit gorgeously musical). Anyway, I’m thrilled with my current HD650 set up, the powerful class A amp being the key. I might even step off the merry go round for a while and just enjoy the music. After all, these things weren’t Sennheiser’s flagship or near flagship for 15+ years by accident.

Enjoy!

 

[Quadfather]

Assuming the 6xx is in fact comparable to the 650 (I’m assuming it is, so don’t get defensive), it is plenty punchy and dynamic. You need to realize that they are 300 ohm headphones, with a very complicated and dynamic resistance curve which will highlight the flaws in any amp that doesn’t have the chops. They need a serious amp that can keep delivering power in the face of an old vet-changing changing high impedance load in order to give their best, and their best is near as good as it gets. The bass on the 650 is not fuzzy or mushy unless your amp is running out of juice trying to drive it. I’m using an old Burson Soloist (class A, solid state). It’s old, but it’s up to the task. Not only does it drive the bass exquisitely, it’s ever so slightly analytical treble is a perfect match for the 650s ever so slightly soft treble. Midrange is liquid and luscious and, as always, the star of the show. IMHO, this is a complementary combination of two very good components complementing each other to achieve superb results. I find the 650s in this set up much more satisfying overall than, among other things: Audeze LCD-X, HiFiMan Ananda, Sundara, and HE560, Focal Elear and even a great pair of marble HD600s, modified with custom cans copper weights and leather earpads with all foam removed. The HD650s are the real deal - but you need to run them off a powerful, stable solid state amp or, I am reliably informed, an OTL tube amp (which naturally thrives on high impedance loads BUT will not likely give you the details you seek - albeit gorgeously musical). Anyway, I’m thrilled with my current HD650 set up, the powerful class A amp being the key. I might even step off the merry go round for a while and just enjoy the music. After all, these things weren’t Sennheiser’s flagship or near flagship for 15+ years by accident.

Enjoy!

Believe it or not, I drive my HD650s with a Lotoo Paw Gold 2017 and they sound so good. Hell, I like my HD650 headphones better than the Empyreans that I demoed.

 

[megabigeye]

Believe it or not, I drive my HD 650 with my iPhone and it sounds fantastic. These do not need a lot of power unless you listen really loud.

 

[Nebula769]

1

 

[Nebula769]

Assuming the 6xx is in fact comparable to the 650 (I’m assuming it is, so don’t get defensive), it is plenty punchy and dynamic. You need to realize that they are 300 ohm headphones, with a very complicated and dynamic resistance curve which will highlight the flaws in any amp that doesn’t have the chops. They need a serious amp that can keep delivering power in the face of an old vet-changing changing high impedance load in order to give their best, and their best is near as good as it gets. The bass on the 650 is not fuzzy or mushy unless your amp is running out of juice trying to drive it. I’m using an old Burson Soloist (class A, solid state). It’s old, but it’s up to the task. Not only does it drive the bass exquisitely, it’s ever so slightly analytical treble is a perfect match for the 650s ever so slightly soft treble. Midrange is liquid and luscious and, as always, the star of the show. IMHO, this is a complementary combination of two very good components complementing each other to achieve superb results. I find the 650s in this set up much more satisfying overall than, among other things: Audeze LCD-X, HiFiMan Ananda, Sundara, and HE560, Focal Elear and even a great pair of marble HD600s, modified with custom cans copper weights and leather earpads with all foam removed. The HD650s are the real deal - but you need to run them off a powerful, stable solid state amp or, I am reliably informed, an OTL tube amp (which naturally thrives on high impedance loads BUT will not likely give you the details you seek - albeit gorgeously musical). Anyway, I’m thrilled with my current HD650 set up, the powerful class A amp being the key. I might even step off the merry go round for a while and just enjoy the music. After all, these things weren’t Sennheiser’s flagship or near flagship for 15+ years by accident.

Enjoy!

maybe its just me but i personally felt that the utopia was more dynamic, punchy, and slams harder

 

[descloud]

You need to realize that they are 300 ohm headphones, with a very complicated and dynamic resistance curve which will highlight the flaws in any amp that doesn’t have the chops. They need a serious amp that can keep delivering power in the face of an old vet-changing changing high impedance load in order to give their best, and their best is near as good as it gets. The bass on the 650 is not fuzzy or mushy unless your amp is running out of juice trying to drive it. I’m using an old Burson Soloist (class A, solid state)

This is just incorrect. Other than the larger impedance curve in the bass region, the sensitivity / efficiency gives you what you need and it doesn't require much to drive 103 dB at 1V RMS sensitivity. It's not as complicated as you make it out to be, nor does it "highlight the flaws in any amp". If you amp is flawed, it's should be noticeable on even a Sundara or an HE-400i. With the treble range being subdued compared to the Hifimans mentioned, those flaws should be even less evident.

Using 4W of output from my iFi Micro BL vs the 1W option did not make the bass of the HD650 any better, because it's not requiring any more voltage nor current to get to the same decibel level you listen to. Power is delivered consistently and you will hear distortion once there's not enough current or voltage provided, simple as that.

Feeding it more power does not make it any better, clearly. The Focal headphones (Clear and Elegia) have dynamics that are very noticeable from any source you feed it, and this is evident to me when I regularly need to lower and increase the volume during certain parts of a song. The HD650 never achieved that type of reaction from me.

The HD650/HD6XX are great sounding for what they are, but they're not matching the dynamics of the likes of the Clear or Elegia. If you like them better than either Focal, more power to you.

 

[jasswolf]

maybe its just me but i personally felt that the utopia was more dynamic, punchy, and slams harder

This is just incorrect. Other than the larger impedance curve in the bass region, the sensitivity / efficiency gives you what you need and it doesn't require much to drive 103 dB at 1V RMS sensitivity. It's not as complicated as you make it out to be, nor does it "highlight the flaws in any amp". If you amp is flawed, it's should be noticeable on even a Sundara or an HE-400i. With the treble range being subdued compared to the Hifimans mentioned, those flaws should be even less evident.

Using 4W of output from my iFi Micro BL vs the 1W option did not make the bass of the HD650 any better, because it's not requiring any more voltage nor current to get to the same decibel level you listen to. Power is delivered consistently and you will hear distortion once there's not enough current or voltage provided, simple as that.

Feeding it more power does not make it any better, clearly. The Focal headphones (Clear and Elegia) have dynamics that are very noticeable from any source you feed it, and this is evident to me when I regularly need to lower and increase the volume during certain parts of a song. The HD650 never achieved that type of reaction from me.

The HD650/HD6XX are great sounding for what they are, but they're not matching the dynamics of the likes of the Clear or Elegia. If you like them better than either Focal, more power to you.

I don't think they were arguing that the dynamics would be better, just that they're best out of a better amp, for which the impedance curve is a factor.

It's not just about pure power and noise floor. Once you're at or approaching Class A design, you're getting a smoother ramping of voltage, and that will matter when the impedance curve is steep.

 

[Strat1117]

I don't think they were arguing that the dynamics would be better, just that they're best out of a better amp, for which the impedance curve is a factor.

It's not just about pure power and noise floor. Once you're at or approaching Class A design, you're getting a smoother ramping of voltage, and that will matter when the impedance curve is steep.

Precisely. I was responding to a poster who stated that he wished the 650 was more dynamic, and I suggested that was a problem that could be addressed with an appropriate amp. I NEVER compared them to the Elegia or the Clear (or the Utopia), because I’ve never even had an opportunity to listen to any of those. I did compare the 650 favorably to the Elear, which I owned and found disappointing.