[dakanao]

Agree with @MattTCG about differences between Jot and Valhalla2, they both pair well with the HD600, to me the Valhalla2 is a little limited due to not being sensitive to tube rolling and the Jot was not a good pairing if you have other headphones like the HD800, HE560 and T1, it was just a bit too bright.

The Lyr2 responds to tube rolling much better than the Valhalla2 but like @kman1211 noted the I didn't care for the Valhalla2 due to the somewhat dry sound which actually does pair well with the HD650.

At the price of the Valhalla2 and Jot I'd also consider the Ember which I feel is a more versatile amp than either but still prefer the BH Crack over all of these amps and for anything under $1000.

What does the BH Crack do better than those other amps, if I may ask?

 

[harney]

What's peeps thoughts experiences with 600 / 650 and a crack amp with speedball

 

[DavidA]

What does the BH Crack do better than those other amps, if I may ask?

What's peeps thoughts experiences with 600 / 650 and a crack amp with speedball

The one thing the BH Crack does better than the Jot, Lyr2, Valhalla2 and Ember to me is it keeps the HD650's smooth mids and natural timber while keeping the bass nice and controlled without getting too analytical. My BH Crack has updated capacitors but I have removed the speedball since I like the sound without it but I think it might depend on the tubes that one uses as to having the speedball or not. The power tubes that one uses has a noticeable effect on how the BH Crack will sound since it is what determines the output impedance.

While I had both the HD600 and HD650 I sold of the HD600 due to the small treble peak at 4-5khz that bothered me at times. For the HD600 I would use tubes that are slightly warmer while with the HD650 I would go with tubes that are more neutral to better match the characteristics of each headphone. I've replaced the HD600 with a Ypsilon S1 driver built headphone which has a better better bass, cleaner more extended highs and a more musical presentation to me while the HD650 has been replaced by a Nhoord Red V2 build which has a more dynamic sound along with cleaner deeper bass. The best thing about the Ypsilon and Nhoord drivers is they don't require an amp to sound really good, but this is just my opinion and maybe a few others who have heard them.

 

[dakanao]

So I just got these for the 2nd time, can someone recommend me a good USB dac/AMP around $100 (can also buy used ofcourse) that will bring most potential out of these?

 

[DavidA]

So I just got these for the 2nd time, can someone recommend me a good USB dac/AMP around $100 (can also buy used ofcourse) that will bring most potential out of these?

My suggestion is to save until you have a decent budget of $250-350 since I can't think of anything for $100 that would sound better than the headphone output of most computers. About the only thing I can think of if you have a computer is to get a decent sound card like a Xonar DG or DGX, these are about $40 and have enough to get either the HD600 or HD650 to reasonable levels but you will probably not be getting the most potential out of either headphone. You might also add what you used in the pass to drive the HD600/650 and what you liked or didn't like about it back when you previously owned both.

"To get the most potential" out of either the HD600 or HD650 probably means different things for everyone, for me it would be a Mimby + BH Crack (about $750 for both including a tubes). To someone else it might be a ODAC/O2, to another it might be a decent DAP, and then it might be someone like my friend who says a MHDT Pagoda + Liquid Glass. I assume you can't audition any gear but if you can't audition then it really comes down to buying and trying since only you can say its good or bad.

 

[harney]

The one thing the BH Crack does better than the Jot, Lyr2, Valhalla2 and Ember to me is it keeps the HD650's smooth mids and natural timber while keeping the bass nice and controlled without getting too analytical. My BH Crack has updated capacitors but I have removed the speedball since I like the sound without it but I think it might depend on the tubes that one uses as to having the speedball or not. The power tubes that one uses has a noticeable effect on how the BH Crack will sound since it is what determines the output impedance.

While I had both the HD600 and HD650 I sold of the HD600 due to the small treble peak at 4-5khz that bothered me at times. For the HD600 I would use tubes that are slightly warmer while with the HD650 I would go with tubes that are more neutral to better match the characteristics of each headphone. I've replaced the HD600 with a Ypsilon S1 driver built headphone which has a better better bass, cleaner more extended highs and a more musical presentation to me while the HD650 has been replaced by a Nhoord Red V2 build which has a more dynamic sound along with cleaner deeper bass. The best thing about the Ypsilon and Nhoord drivers is they don't require an amp to sound really good, but this is just my opinion and maybe a few others who have heard them.

Thank you

 

[RickB]

So I just got these for the 2nd time, can someone recommend me a good USB dac/AMP around $100 (can also buy used ofcourse) that will bring most potential out of these?

Check out the Fulla 2 from Schiit. I have never used it, but it's the only thing I know of at that price point.

http://www.schiit.com/products/fulla-2

 

[cswann1]

So I just got these for the 2nd time, can someone recommend me a good USB dac/AMP around $100 (can also buy used ofcourse) that will bring most potential out of these?

The 300ohm Sennheiser's aren't particularly hard to drive, but they really benefit from high quality amplification. No $100 DAC/Amp will do the HD650's justice IMO, particularly in the amp. As far as DAC's be careful about "drinking kool-aid". Even the cheapest DAC chips resolve to analog very well and unless there is just a really bad implementation of a design you'd be very hard-pressed to tell the difference between any two DAC's regardless of price difference.
My recommendation for an amp is a Bottlehead Crack. I've heard HD650'ds through this amp and imho it's a phenomenal product in it's price range, that pairs extremely well with the Sennheisers. You should be able to sock enough cash away in a couple of months and you will be greatly rewarded for your patience.

 

[Letmebefrank]

So I just got these for the 2nd time, can someone recommend me a good USB dac/AMP around $100 (can also buy used ofcourse) that will bring most potential out of these?

I agree with @DavidA that a $100 dac/amp isn't going to do them justice however I have used my HD650s with both Fulla 2 and CEntrance DacPort Slim, both are $99 and both sound good for the money.

If you can't wait, get a Fulla 2, it's much more versatile than the CEntrance. If you can save up for a bit, grab a Modi 2 and a Vali 2 and call it good or if you want to step up to a Modi Multibit + Vali 2 that is a great pairing.

 

[i luvmusic 2]

IMO the cheapest way is to get a VINTAGE RECEIVER and use a speaker taps,My Pioneer SX-3700 cost me $80CAD (last year) and this receiver can compete with my modded BH CRACK.

 

[litwick87]

These are both good amps with different flavors. Not surprisingly the Jot has better speed/decay with a bit of a U shaped signature. (punched up slightly at both ends) The Valhalla 2 is more cohesive across the spectrum and better balanced in it's presentation. But for me, the Valhalla 2 can be a little dry which is strange for a tube amp. It's not a real tube rollers amp as the stock tubes sound about as good as you'll get.

The sound stage of the Jot is a little collapsed where the Valhalla 2 has pretty good staging. Recreation of tone with both instruments and voices is better on the Valahalla 2, where the Jot will have better dynamics and sound more punchy. And also the Jot is the more versatile amp by far with a DAC/phono option and balanced in/out as well. Also consider that the Jot is relatively new in it's life cycle where the Valhalla 2 has been out for some time and could see a revision soon.

At the end of the day it just comes down to what you're looking for in a amp and your preferences. They both play very well with the hd650.

This is about spot on, I'm new to all of this. Its not as "tubey" as you can get from what I hear, but just doing A/B testing you can still hear a difference which is good. I like the Jot on balanced cable for TV/Movies and all the dance music I listen to, as well as most rap. Any alternative, acoustic, classical, lots of R&B and slower music I've liked better on the Valhalla. I'm using the Valhalla out of the Jot's preamp since it has the DAC built in. I'm going to keep playing around with it and try rolling in these JJ Gold Pins when I have a feel for the stock tubes before figuring out if I want to hang onto it long term or not. For my setup the Jot gets the nod as the "one unit" that I'd keep since I like how its balanced and use the balanced preouts for my powered monoitors, and like the balanced out for my HD650 too, as well as the built in DAC... it can just do so much more as an all in one unit.

 

[lieshout]

Indeed, the right Amp makes a huge difference.
But for me / in my setup, also connecting it balanced.

Have been using the hd650 with my marantz hd-dac1 on high gain.
Loved the sound. Very balanced soundsignature over the whole freq spectrum.
All instruments just sound right. But only missing in the bass.
Then I decided to terminate the stock cable with neutrik AG 4 pin xlr.
(A little hard to use the stock cable due to the type of wire, but with the right tools it can be done with good results).

The first time using it balanced with my Violectric: WOW, this is what this headphone hype is all about for all these years

 

[DavidA]

Indeed, the right Amp makes a huge difference.
But for me / in my setup, also connecting it balanced.

Have been using the hd650 with my marantz hd-dac1 on high gain.
Loved the sound. Very balanced soundsignature over the whole freq spectrum.
All instruments just sound right. But only missing in the bass.
Then I decided to terminate the stock cable with neutrik AG 4 pin xlr.
(A little hard to use the stock cable due to the type of wire, but with the right tools it can be done with good results).

The first time using it balanced with my Violectric: WOW, this is what this headphone hype is all about for all these years

I think the improvements are a combination of the V281 + balanced connections. When I asked my friend about the V281 that he has he noted that the SE output is really good and going balanced didn't make much of difference to him but he noted that some amps like the Jot does have a better sound stage when using the balanced connection but the overall frequency response stays the same. I think it really depends on the design of the amp as to the balanced or SE output sounding better, worse or the same.

 

[lieshout]

I think the improvements are a combination of the V281 + balanced connections. When I asked my friend about the V281 that he has he noted that the SE output is really good and going balanced didn't make much of difference to him but he noted that some amps like the Jot does have a better sound stage when using the balanced connection but the overall frequency response stays the same. I think it really depends on the design of the amp as to the balanced or SE output sounding better, worse or the same.

You could be right.
But for me there is defenitly an improvement on v281 balanced vs se using hd650, in the bass.
Some time ago I had an Auralic taurus mkII, and indeed some headphones sounded better single ended with the taurus.

 

[dakanao]

Those amps look good, but they're too big for me to use on my bed with my laptop. Currently I'm using the Geek Out 450, and while they do sound good, I feel like the highs are not as controlled as they can be

So something around the size of the GO 450, and I'm willing to save up $200 if it really will control them better than the Geek Out.