Sennheiser HD650 & Massdrop HD6XX Impressions Thread
Apr 2, 2017 at 9:18 PM Post #38,461 of 46,514
 
This is not surprising, as I'm sure any serious engineer would factor in cable/connector design and how it interacts with the headphone and affects the sound.  The cable would not simply be an afterthought or off the shelf throw-in.  Maybe not so much with some cheap headphones, but with something like the 650, yes.


​   I agree - it just doesn't make sense to go to the expense of using exotic and esoteric resources to manufacture "flagship" headphones (the hd 650s were the flagship of the line at one time) only to throw in a crap cable. And these claims from the cable guys that their cables will bring out the best of any headphone ... really?? I am certain that all the major manufacturers have utilized the best means of connecting their premium HP to your premium source!
   Now, I don't claim to be an engineer or other expert on the matter, but I recently watched Tyll Hertsons' video (in his review of the HD 600 / 650) on repairing the connector spring  in the headset. It clearly shows that any cable connects to the drivers via a metal (?) spring, some gold colored metal connector, then directly to the SINGLE COPPER leads (very thin strand) of the voice coil. How can all the magic flowing through these elvish crafted conduits of silver and gold not get lost at this juncture? I'm not buying it, literally!
   I wish one or more of the big name manufacturers would come out with a published opinion on this matter and put it to rest, one way or another!
 
Apr 2, 2017 at 10:04 PM Post #38,462 of 46,514
I personally believe the only time a cable will make a difference is if it is not up to specifications, probably through material, build, or length.
Just a few days ago I recabled my fiancee's AKG K551 with a random mini cable from RadioShack and it sounded unsatisfactory. The ground channel is only the shielding (instead of a cable plus a shielding, or only cable) and the L+R Hot are very thin lacquered strands. It sounded thin and light bass, and when I was checking the continuity to determine L R cables, my multimeter registered a few Ω of resistance. I noticed I have to turn up my amp higher too to get to good volume levels.
The cable is about 2 meters give or take, very long for how the cable was built. If it was only 1.25 meter or so I don't think the cable will influence the sound much.
 
But cables and interconnects should be transparent. "Should" as in by principle they should be, but if people want to customize to cater to their personal tastes then that's not my issue. If interconnects have sound signatures, amp DAC CDP speaker builders etc will run into all sorts of problems especially building their PCB because all that house sound will go nuts because of their wiring.
 
p/s: back then we called 'interconnects' only patch cables.
 
Apr 3, 2017 at 12:54 AM Post #38,463 of 46,514
there are many ways to make a cable, and sure enough some of those ways can change the sound audibly. braid it like mad to use 3 times the length of wire, cover it with enough shield to withstand an atomic blast, do something crazy between the - and the ground/shied, use ethernet wire, etc. at some point the sound might change and some might prefer it because they just paid 500$ for that crap and they were convinced the moment they paid for it.
now are those methods improvements? probably not. simply because the default cable in this specific case is a fine cable, they even bothered using 2+2 wires all the way until the jack for even lower crosstalk, and both sides are kept straight at a reasonable distance. given how inaudible crosstalk is unless it reaches something like -40db or so, we could even count that as already overkill(but cool for those who wish to re-terminate it to balance I guess).
so most likely anything sounding clearly different equals to lower fidelity. could be more euphonic, why not? but fidelity for a given reference can only have one sound and the default cable seems to offers close to it, so significant change can only mean one thing IMO.
 
the other question would be about the sound quality to $ ratio. is it expensive to make a cable with good electrical properties? no it isn't. a cable is a passive component, one of the most basic stuff in our sound system and has zero legitimate reason to cost as much or more than the headphone.
using silver instead of copper IMO only means an insignificant reduction in impedance that could be achieved just as well with a slightly bigger diameter of copper. and copper is more malleable than silver so I would always favor copper for stuff I will move around and bend a lot. but all in all it doesn't really matter, we're listening to music not trying to strangle werewolves. the HD650 is 300ohm and more, nobody cares that the cable is 0.5ohm or 1.5ohm. maybe the 20khz will end up 0.2db louder, big deal, is that worth spending 400$ in that expensive silver cable? because I can sell you a free EQ for 200$. great value!!!!!
litz stuff do have some benefits, but those benefits are located way outside of the audio range, and really make sense for high frequency signals, not much for analog audio.
cryo magic, well I won't insult you guys talking about that joke. half the time the properties claimed by those who promote such services don't even correspond to the proper metal.
so we're left with pretty stuff and soft touch cover around the cable, not sure that should cost hundreds of $, but beauty is in the eye of the listener ^_^.
 
Apr 3, 2017 at 10:38 AM Post #38,464 of 46,514
@castleofargh,  did you get your prize yet? 
cool.gif

 
Apr 3, 2017 at 10:59 AM Post #38,465 of 46,514
Re:  castleofargh
Well said.  I wonder when we're talking about different cable metals, wrappings, connectors, etc., why I've never seen anyone talking about what happens after the signal gets to the headphones.  I've never opened up any headphones, but it seems to me that the wire between the headphone jack and the driver must be pretty thin, and I'm guessing made of copper.  Has anyone swapped this wire out to improve sound?
 
Apr 3, 2017 at 11:28 AM Post #38,466 of 46,514
On my floor system, I find that the metallurgy of the cable CONNECTORS has a noticeable impact on the SQ. Rhodium vs. copper, etc. More so than the ridiculous 99.999998% copper purity often quoted in marketing blurbs.
 
Apr 3, 2017 at 12:02 PM Post #38,467 of 46,514
I have a pair of silver interconnects (QED Silver Anniversary) that, when plugged into the inputs of my Project Ember MkII produce a clearly different sound to my other (copper) cables. Is it better? That's for others to decide. It's definitely leaner, perhaps more analytical, but definitely more edgy. Horses for courses.
 
Apr 3, 2017 at 1:15 PM Post #38,468 of 46,514
So I bought this balanced cable for my HD650's from Venture Electronics, the spec says "For HD6X0 2-pin", but the connectors seem bigger than my stock HD650 cable connectors, and I'm afraid to use any more force than I have already tried to connect them.
 
Are there different size connectors between HD600 and HD650?
 

 
Apr 3, 2017 at 1:22 PM Post #38,469 of 46,514
  So I bought this balanced cable for my HD650's from Venture Electronics, the spec says "For HD6X0 2-pin", but the connectors seem bigger than my stock HD650 cable connectors, and I'm afraid to use any more force than I have already tried to connect them.
 
Are there different size connectors between HD600 and HD650?

 
The connectors are the same between the 600 and 650. Make sure you're inserting them in the right direction, but they should definitely work 
 
Apr 3, 2017 at 1:26 PM Post #38,470 of 46,514
  Looking at a Schiit Dac. I have my HD 650's paired with Crack/Speedball.
 
Worth getting the Bifrost Multibit for these headphones or go with Bifrost Uber?
 
Thanks

 
I believe there are rumors of a Bifrost update, which might make one want to wait just a bit and see how true that is.  I'm not sure which Bifrosts Schiit will offer future upgrades for.  It might only be for the multibit variety...
 
Apr 3, 2017 at 2:10 PM Post #38,471 of 46,514
  On my floor system, I find that the metallurgy of the cable CONNECTORS has a noticeable impact on the SQ. Rhodium vs. copper, etc. More so than the ridiculous 99.999998% copper purity often quoted in marketing blurbs.

in practice I tend to find plugs more important than the cable itself. bad contact can really change the electrical specs of the cable and not is a good way. when I'm world leader, and that will come some day, I'll force everything to be with banana plugs. and I'll have some extra large put on apple devices as "courage".
 
  I have a pair of silver interconnects (QED Silver Anniversary) that, when plugged into the inputs of my Project Ember MkII produce a clearly different sound to my other (copper) cables. Is it better? That's for others to decide. It's definitely leaner, perhaps more analytical, but definitely more edgy. Horses for courses.

it might come as a surprise but interconnects aren't cable for the hd650. ^_^ 
I have IEMs where I'm like "What is that crap of a cable??????".  I'm not saying that all cables are great. the hd650's cable is IMO one that does a fine job, so I would advise people who plan to put 300$ or more into a cable for the HD650 to change the sound, to maybe put the money into a new headphone. the change in sound should be fairly clear that way.
tongue.gif

 
Apr 3, 2017 at 2:17 PM Post #38,473 of 46,514
So I bought this balanced cable for my HD650's from Venture Electronics, the spec says "For HD6X0 2-pin", but the connectors seem bigger than my stock HD650 cable connectors, and I'm afraid to use any more force than I have already tried to connect them.

Are there different size connectors between HD600 and HD650?




I've got the same cable and I've got no problem with it on my HD650 so if it does not fit it's properly faulty.
 
Apr 3, 2017 at 4:15 PM Post #38,474 of 46,514
Guys - many, many thanks for all of your input - it's been thoroughly interesting reading the debate!
 
Inadvertently I think I may have managed to sort my issue....
 
I just plugged in my new Uptone LPS-1 to power the W4S Recovery - WOWZERS
 
Music sounds fluid, impactful, relaxed, fun and best of all.... is both fantastic via the HD650s and my speaker setup
 
I had read the rave reviews but was just so uncertain that a power supply could make this kind of difference, well I am so chuffed that I took the risk
 
This is the best my computer based system has sounded, ever.
 
Also the best I've heard my HD650s - suspect if I had been using a more old school source like quality CD player I would never of been doubting their quality or clutching at straws like cable upgrades.....
 

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