[Russin]

  I have both the HE-400i and the HD 6XX (HD 650) and I prefer the HD 6XX for most music. It simply covers all the bases.

 
Curious what you mostly choose to use the 400is for in terms of genre?

 

[Krutsch]

   
Curious what you mostly choose to use the 400is for in terms of genre?

 I don't own a pair, but I've listed to them at meets... for speed metal: wow. Think: Pantera. And, I recall them being easy to drive.

 

[DavidA]

Quote:

  Wondering if anyone else has experienced anything similar with the HD650s (or any other headphones really.) When I first started using the HD650s with my Vali 2 amp, I had the volume knob around the 12 o'clock position with hi-gain and Windows volume at 100%. In the past week, I've found myself using the HD650s with the Vali 2's volume adjusted lower to the 10 o'clock position and all other settings the same. Is this just a result of "getting used to" the HD650s or could this be a result of breaking in? Curious to see what other listeners have to say.

If you have a smart phone you can download apps that will measure the dB level, its not the most accurate but it will give you a good estimation of how loud you are listening.  Also, some apps let you do some calibration so its even more accurate.  Something like this is pretty accurate as I compared it with a friends dB meter that he uses for work which is calibrated once a month:

this way you will know if you are listening at a higher or lower level over time, for me it varies between 65-75dB average with peaks around 82dB.
 
How loud you listen also has a impact on how one headphone compares to another

 

[Nkrlz]

I bought mine today, and the sound is amazing, the best pair of headphones i've ever had were the fidelio M1s (and for what they are they sound great) but they pale in comparison to this cans. But i have an annoying issue, i have a small CD collection (150ish and growing), were i get 99.5% of my music from. Unfortunately the 650s had made realize how awfully recorded/mastered a lot of them are, i mainly listen to 60s/70s rock with some 50s jazz and the ocasional classical composition and even though everything sounds fine through my ****ty Technics/Philips SU-CH700 through the 650s a lot of highs sound noisy/crackly/distorted (though even the Fidelio show the issue in one or two albums, i'm looking at you Paranoid). I though this purchase would be for my humble goals an end all be all, but alas it's not, at least Beethoven's fifth sounds out of this world .

 

[penmarker]

  I bought mine today, and the sound is amazing, the best pair of headphones i've ever had were the fidelio M1s (and for what they are they sound great) but they pale in comparison to this cans. But i have an annoying issue, i have a small CD collection (150ish and growing), were i get 99.5% of my music from. Unfortunately the 650s had made realize how awfully recorded/mastered a lot of them are, i mainly listen to 60s/70s rock with some 50s jazz and the ocasional classical composition and even though everything sounds fine through my ****ty Technics/Philips SU-CH700 through the 650s a lot of highs sound noisy/crackly/distorted (though even the Fidelio show the issue in one or two albums, i'm looking at you Paranoid). I though this purchase would be for my humble goals an end all be all, but alas it's not, at least Beethoven's fifth sounds out of this world .

60/70's rock, 50's jazz, well I can understand. I've got some Nina Simone, Roberta Flack, and Sarah Vaughan that I wish were recorded better. 

 

[MikeW]

I've wanted to try out Planar's for awhile, I've currently got Denon D2k and HD650, with Jotunheim.. don't really want a planar that's not at least in the same range of performance as those two can's though, don't think the 400i cut it. May need LCD2, or Hifiman 560, or maybe Monolith 1060, or Oppo PM1.
 
I've had the Denon's for a long time, and I really enjoy them as well, but they are quite different from the HD650's. I think I prefer HD650 overall, there are some things the Denon are magical at, but I think overall the 650 is better. Neither one really embarrass the other.
 
I recently tried out streaming music services for the first time, as I was growing tired of my library, man Tidal is pretty great... tried Spotify too, but I felt like I could hear too much difference between Spotify's 320 and my Foobar Flac's. I can't really hear a difference with Tidal HiFi and Foobar Flac.
 
I think alot of it may have to do with the client's, as spotify does not have a proper Wasapi output, and get's mixed though windows mixer, and the Fidelify is aweful and buggy, not full featured. Tidal get's it right with lossless and wasapi output. I think i'd even prefer Tidal's 10$ "Premium" tier to Spotify, simply for the WASAPI. I've not tried the 15$ Equalify software addon for spotify that is supposed to add proper wasapi support.

 

[WriterHead]

  I have both the HE-400i and the HD 6XX (HD 650) and I prefer the HD 6XX for most music. It simply covers all the bases.

I have both and think the opposite.

 

[iancraig10]

How loud you listen also has a impact on how one headphone compares to another

That is so true.

I also find that different headphones 'snap' into focus at different levels. Some work better loud while others work better at low levels.

That's one reason why sometimes FR charts can give a poor view while on the head, the headphone is ok. The idea that every headphone needs to work at the same volume doesn't work with me.

I also think that many listen way too loud. I turn up until the sound becomes 'present' and then back off a little. I also use attenuators so that the amp vol pot is around 12 to 2 when I listen.

That may have quite a lot to do with the different ways that we all perceive headphone sound.

 

[rikk009]

   
Just did some aggressive listening between the two yesterday. Amped via JDS Labs C5D running 320kb MP3s off my phone.
 
The interesting thing that I picked up on - despite both being fantastic headphones, the 650s are strong in perfectly the right area to bring out the 400i's only real "weakness."
 
If you listen to 20 low-to-mid-fi headphones in any given shop and then throw on the 400is, you'll rate them near the top due to their precision across the spectrum with fantastic bass extension - but the clarity and details in the upper mids on the 650 really lets you appreciate the "gap" in the 400is between the well-defined bass and the precision highs.
 
The 400i gives a very intimate feeling, but the seamless transition from the mids into the highs on the 650s seems to open them up into substantially more space. In fact, if you listen to the two headphones back to back, it will nearly have you saying that the 400is sound muffled (but again - put on any other headphones to cure yourself of that illusion).
 
Are you familiar with that sensation of upper mids "coming over the top" so-to speak? For an example of what I mean, play Thriller through a few pair of headphones, and wait for the moment when the synth first kicks in with the recognizable riff (around 37 seconds).
 
On a really open, airy pair of headphones, that moment is euphoric - you suddenly feel all of the headroom explode into the upper mids and the space expands dramatically.
 
The 650s have that feeling on always.
 
I actually ended up with the 400is because I wanted to take a planar adventure, but I definitely find myself thinking about those sweet sweet 650s.

I haven't heard 400i but I have a modded T50rp mk2 which I think is opposite. Both the Hd6XX and T50 compliment each other. I like mids on HD6XX and highs and lows on T50. The bass on these planars are phenomenal and clear not bloated that's why I always recommend Fostex driver based cans for anyone looking for electronic music. I don't think HD6XX does that genre that well. Highs if tuned properly can reach euphoric levels on T50 without being sibilant. 

 

[DavidA]

  I've wanted to try out Planar's for awhile, I've currently got Denon D2k and HD650, with Jotunheim.. don't really want a planar that's not at least in the same range of performance as those two can's though, don't think the 400i cut it. May need LCD2, or Hifiman 560, or maybe Monolith 1060, or Oppo PM1.
 
I've had the Denon's for a long time, and I really enjoy them as well, but they are quite different from the HD650's. I think I prefer HD650 overall, there are some things the Denon are magical at, but I think overall the 650 is better. Neither one really embarrass the other.
 

I don't think the Jot is a great amp for the HE400i since both are a touch on the bright side.  I tried a friends Jot with a few of my headphones and the Jot paired with the HD650 was really nice, better than with the Ember but the BH Crack is still a more musical and dynamic pairing to me.  The Jot with the HE400i was not very good, a little too bright, harsh and sibilant at times with the HE560, HD700/800 and T1.  While I haven't heard a D2k I have a TH600, had a TH-X00 and have heard the TH900 a few times and the sound signature is quite different compared to most of my other headphones, very fun sounding with older 70-80 stuff but still not quite as good as the custom Ypsilon and Nhoord builds that I have.
 
As I noted above the level that one listens to and also the primary genre that one listens to that plays a large part in how one perceives how a headphone compare to another headphone.

 

[paradoxology]

"I have both and think the opposite."
Clearly, to each his own.

 

[paradoxology]

   
Curious what you mostly choose to use the 400is for in terms of genre?

Metal.mostly. The He-400i is in its element with that kind of music. 

 

[drwlf]

   
Just did some aggressive listening between the two yesterday. Amped via JDS Labs C5D running 320kb MP3s off my phone.
 
The interesting thing that I picked up on - despite both being fantastic headphones, the 650s are strong in perfectly the right area to bring out the 400i's only real "weakness."
 
If you listen to 20 low-to-mid-fi headphones in any given shop and then throw on the 400is, you'll rate them near the top due to their precision across the spectrum with fantastic bass extension - but the clarity and details in the upper mids on the 650 really lets you appreciate the "gap" in the 400is between the well-defined bass and the precision highs.
 
The 400i gives a very intimate feeling, but the seamless transition from the mids into the highs on the 650s seems to open them up into substantially more space. In fact, if you listen to the two headphones back to back, it will nearly have you saying that the 400is sound muffled (but again - put on any other headphones to cure yourself of that illusion).
 
Are you familiar with that sensation of upper mids "coming over the top" so-to speak? For an example of what I mean, play Thriller through a few pair of headphones, and wait for the moment when the synth first kicks in with the recognizable riff (around 37 seconds).
 
On a really open, airy pair of headphones, that moment is euphoric - you suddenly feel all of the headroom explode into the upper mids and the space expands dramatically.
 
The 650s have that feeling on always.
 
I actually ended up with the 400is because I wanted to take a planar adventure, but I definitely find myself thinking about those sweet sweet 650s.

Muffled, the 400i? Either there's something wrong, or you're not exactly describing it properly. Are you talking about congestion, or perhaps detail retrieval compared to above its price range? For 250$, the 400i does these things ridiculously well.
And about the openness of the 400i, it's about as open as an open headphone can get.

 

[Russin]

 
Muffled, the 400i? Either there's something wrong, or you're not exactly describing it properly. Are you talking about congestion, or perhaps detail retrieval compared to above its price range? For 250$, the 400i does these things ridiculously well.
And about the openness of the 400i, it's about as open as an open headphone can get.

 
Is the 400i really going for $250 now? I haven't seen it less than $299 used. Hope I didn't get ripped off.
 
But to your point - no, not saying it's muffled compared to anything in the range. Definitely tried to get across that they put pretty much everything in the range to shame. But in my opinion, the presence of the upper-mids/low-treble and the sense of space on the 650s was such that it by immediate side-by-side comparison it can even make the 400i sound muffled. I've even heard people describe 650s as "distant" for the traits that I'm calling out here, which bring the immediacy of the 400is into focus.
 
Less of a ding to the 400is than a testament to the performance of the 650s, but I could see my post being read the way you pointed out.
 
It doesn't help that looking at the data, I was mis-placing my description some what - the region I was look for was more of a low treble phenomenon than a high-mid phenomenon: http://cdn.head-fi.org/e/e3/e39d4087_graphCompare.png
 
Sorry for any confusion. You've clearly a lot more experience than I do. Can you help me understand more about how to explain the aural phenomenon produced by that low-treble dip? It's always felt like "muffling" to me, but I suppose that may have a more precise meaning that I am not grasping.

 

[MWSVette]

   
Is the 400i really going for $250 now? I haven't seen it less than $299 used. Hope I didn't get ripped off.
 
But to your point - no, not saying it's muffled compared to anything in the range. Definitely tried to get across that they put pretty much everything in the range to shame. But in my opinion, the presence of the upper-mids/low-treble and the sense of space on the 650s was such that it by immediate side-by-side comparison it can even make the 400i sound muffled. I've even heard people describe 650s as "distant" for the traits that I'm calling out here, which bring the immediacy of the 400is into focus.
 
Less of a ding to the 400is than a testament to the performance of the 650s, but I could see my post being read the way you pointed out.
 
It doesn't help that looking at the data, I was mis-placing my description some what - the region I was look for was more of a low treble phenomenon than a high-mid phenomenon: http://cdn.head-fi.org/e/e3/e39d4087_graphCompare.png
 
Sorry for any confusion. You've clearly a lot more experience than I do. Can you help me understand more about how to explain the aural phenomenon produced by that low-treble dip? It's always felt like "muffling" to me, but I suppose that may have a more precise meaning that I am not grasping.

 
 
Now available at the Hifiman store both in new and old versions refurbished for $229.00
 
http://store.hifiman.com/index.php/he-400i-512.html
 
http://store.hifiman.com/index.php/he-400i-509.html