[tdockweiler]

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the HD 650 is a very transparent headphone imo, at least way more than the rest of the competition at this price range. i think the HD 650s are very nice at being forgiving headphones though, they made all my poor recordings and even youtube videos sound pretty good. no harshness anywhere

 
Yep, exactly. I use my HD-650 when I don't want to be bombarded by all my harsh/fatiguing tracks. Almost everything sounds smooth to my ears (just like the HD-598). Of course the Q701 is somewhat OK with them too, but not as much as the HD-650. With my HD-650 I can still see that they're garbage tracks (lower quality in this case) but they're still listenable. With the HD-650 I feel like i'm getting a little bit more low bass extension than my Q701. It's not that dramatic though. The warmer/fuller sound of the HD-650 is addicting though. Action movies just don't feel the same with the Q701, but still pretty good. I have "Annie" pads for extra bass on the Q701, but I'd rather use the HD-650. The "Annie" sounds darker and more muffled to my ears. I prefer the HD-650.
 
One negative effect i've found with my E17 and worn pads is that low mids (especially male vocals) are kind of peaky at times. Could be more due to the recorded vocals or the E17. E17 doesn't sound as smooth in the low mids as my Modi. This is with the amp part. This is pretty rare though.
 
I think i've been through more amps and sources with the HD-650 than any other headphone. I think my weakest link was my older DACs. I'm not buying any $200+ DACs though and am trying to stick with gear under $350 per piece. Maybe i'll try the Bifrost since i'm such a huge fan of the Modi. $400+ for 1 1/2 - 2 hours per day of music listening is kind of overkill to me. Guess i'm a cheapskate. I already disliked the Asgard1 and probably will hate the Lyr. Maybe i'll be surprised. Don't really want the HD-650 any warmer (if the Lyr does that a little).

 

[Gilly87]

I have to admit I am pretty blown away right now. Listening to Space Odyssey by David Bowie and I think the layering and positioning of instruments on this headphone is on a completely different level from anything I've ever heard. I didn't know my Microstreamer was this potent of a source; compared to other headphones I've heard, this just has a completely different level of spacial accuracy and completeness. The only thing that comes close was the HD598, its stage was larger but I don't remember it having this enveloping of a sound or the same level of "truly 3D" feeling to it; the vocals were closer, and the furthest cues were further, but the space in between was not as impressively filled out and neatly distributed. I can pick out each individual layer so well, and the sense of relative distance for each is very distinct.
 
The other big factor I feel this phone has over the HD598 is the bass. It's tighter and so much deeper and fuller. The 598 was very fun, but it just didn't have satisfying bass to my ears, and the mids were a bit...fuzzy. The HD650s are not more transparent or "naked" sounding, but they are more realistic and natural. I have to say, if you just like the Sennheiser house sound for acoustic, jazz, some classical, etc but don't need a lot of bass, the HD598s are definitely a better value than the HD650. They sound similar in more ways than not. But the HD650 does offer a single step up in just about every way, from neutrality, miro-detail and decay, to bass extension and timbre/natural-ness of the sound.
 
I think I still prefer the DT770 for some electronic music; I'm curious to see if that changes when I get a real amp beneath my HD650.

 

[joebobbilly]

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I have to admit I am pretty blown away right now. Listening to Space Odyssey by David Bowie and I think the layering and positioning of instruments on this headphone is on a completely different level from anything I've ever heard. I didn't know my Microstreamer was this potent of a source; compared to other headphones I've heard, this just has a completely different level of spacial accuracy and completeness. The only thing that comes close was the HD598, its stage was larger but I don't remember it having this enveloping of a sound or the same level of "truly 3D" feeling to it; the vocals were closer, and the furthest cues were further, but the space in between was not as impressively filled out and neatly distributed. I can pick out each individual layer so well, and the sense of relative distance for each is very distinct.
 
The other big factor I feel this phone has over the HD598 is the bass. It's tighter and so much deeper and fuller. The 598 was very fun, but it just didn't have satisfying bass to my ears, and the mids were a bit...fuzzy. The HD650s are not more transparent or "naked" sounding, but they are more realistic and natural. I have to say, if you just like the Sennheiser house sound for acoustic, jazz, some classical, etc but don't need a lot of bass, the HD598s are definitely a better value than the HD650. They sound similar in more ways than not. But the HD650 does offer a single step up in just about every way, from neutrality, miro-detail and decay, to bass extension and timbre/natural-ness of the sound.
 
I think I still prefer the DT770 for some electronic music; I'm curious to see if that changes when I get a real amp beneath my HD650.

Get an Uberfrost, feed it right with good SPDIF, good FLAC files and see what an even better DAC will do for ya

 

[Gilly87]

Well I've got the new HRT Music Streamer HD ready to go, but I need to finish building my O2 before I can test it ^_^
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Get an Uberfrost, feed it right with good SPDIF, good FLAC files and see what an even better DAC will do for ya

 

[Stoney]

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I find it somewhat hard to believe that Senn would ship a **** cable on a $500 set of reference headphones. Unless you have a fully balanced system source to speaker, I would simply measure the impedance. If its less than 1 ohm on a decent scope you should have a clean signal. The longer the cable the more important this is. 

 
Stock cables are long, so stock cables are given short shrift by manufacturers.  Also, engineers at Senn might not be open to cable differences, or care given that aftermarket ones are available and so it isn't their problem.
 
Aftermarket cables are expensive... in some cases as much as the headphones.  I do it because it is worth it for sonic reasons alone.  Right now, I'm using a headphone cable (short) by Cardas (unbalanced at the moment) which approaches the price of the HD650s and the Valhalla amp which inexplicably is a marvelous match. (Well, explicable: high impedance works well with a single-ended triode with no output transformer: SET-OTL.  All tube, limited gain, no feedback.  Purity hence accuracy.)  Of my collection of interconnect cables, I found my best pair gave the accuracy, detail, and flat response I wanted; they cost much more than the amp.  Sometimes it just works out that way.  
 
I also tested a pricey 1/4" stereo headphone extension against the Grado one.  At least in treble, the Grado had less degradation.  Go figure. Simple worked again.  
 
Come over and hear for yourself why this insane strategy works, at least if you already own each of the items. Price ≠ performance, nor is price required to get superlative performance.  

 

[Stoney]

The HD700: I've listened for a while with Senn's own amp.  On hand were HD650 and HD800.  My take?  700 is colored.  Very colored.  Imaging no longer was relevant.  The coloration I heard might be described as "cupped hands" but you might have to be British and 50 years old to get what I'm implying.    I'd go straight for the HD800 and modify the hell out of them with damping material to reduce that treble resonance or its audibility.  

 

[olegausany]

The HD700: I've listened for a while with Senn's own amp.  On hand were HD650 and HD800.  My take?  700 is colored.  Very colored.  Imaging no longer was relevant.  The coloration I heard might be described as "cupped hands" but you might have to be British and 50 years old to get what I'm implying.    I'd go straight for the HD800 and modify the hell out of them with damping material to reduce that treble resonance or its audibility.  

Enjoying with WA7 without any problems

 

[James-uk]

800s don't need mods. I've got the 650s and can switch quickly between the 2 . To me the 800s are just more neutral with better bass quantity and quality/extension and better imaging . Treble is very slightly more pronounced with air and speed and it's very clean( no grain whatsoever )but that just makes them transparent rather than slightly polite and rolled off like the 650s. All in my humble opinion of course.

 

[Lorspeaker]

If only my favorite cabledyne cable maker gets into headphone cablings....:rolleyes:

 

[musiclife]

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800s don't need mods. I've got the 650s and can switch quickly between the 2 . To me the 800s are just more neutral with better bass quantity and quality/extension and better imaging . Treble is very slightly more pronounced with air and speed and it's very clean( no grain whatsoever )but that just makes them transparent rather than slightly polite and rolled off like the 650s. All in my humble opinion of course.

But pricewise is it relevant to jump from the 650 to the 800?

 

[mvrk10256]

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But pricewise is it relevant to jump from the 650 to the 800?

Once you start talking about $1k headphones the diminishing returns come into play. Is the 800>650? Probably.. Is it 2x better? Probably not. 

 

[James-uk]

I agree, the 650s are already into diminished returns territory and they are outstanding headphones, they are only about 5-10% away from the 800s. It's so close that some days I sit and listen to the 650s and think I didn't need to get the 800s and these are all I needed as an end game headphone. Other days I listen to the 800s and I'm glad I upgraded because they are better and that 5% just seems worth it . It's hard to explain I suppose but all said and done and taking price into consideration I would recommend the 650s to anyone in a heartbeat but most people just wouldn't appreciate that extra 5% that would justify laying down 3 times more money for the 800s. I've even considered getting some sr009s but reading between the lines I would say they are probably another 2% better than the 800s and that I could never justify for their price!

 

[mvrk10256]

I got my 650s used for $250 in perfect shape. I feel at that price point and my level of interest in the hobby I am pretty happy with myself. 1 decent OTL and 1 decent solid state fed by a decent DAC, and I am pretty happy man. 

 

[scolaiw]

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Once you start talking about $1k headphones the diminishing returns come into play. Is the 800>650? Probably.. Is it 2x better? Probably not. 

I humbly disagree. In terms of technical performance, I really do think the HD 800 is about twice as good as the 650s. The HD 800 really is an engineering masterpiece. It's just that due to the nature of sound, I believe the relationship between technical ability and sound quality is logarithmic. That is to say, every time technical ability "doubles" the perceived audio quality only increases a constant increment. 

That doesn't mean much though... because at the end of the day technical ability is not what matters most (neither is SQ). What matters is you hear what you like and enjoy. If you truly enjoy wooly crappy bass, who's to say you shouldn't be allowed to indulge in your pair of beats? Are the LCD 3s better than the HD 800s? Who cares! Do you want to listen to and enjoy some rich luscious and dark tones or would you prefer to hear a cleaner, neutral and more transparent window into your music? That should be what you base your decision on. 

As such, I often choose the 650s over the 800s and vice versa. 

 

[mvrk10256]

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That doesn't mean much though... because at the end of the day technical ability is not what matters most (neither is SQ). What matters is you hear what you like and enjoy. If you truly enjoy wooly crappy bass, who's to say you shouldn't be allowed to indulge in your pair of beats? Are the LCD 3s better than the HD 800s? Who cares! 

 
Totally agree.