[daigo]

Quote:

Source: Rega DAC / Marantz SA-7001
Amp: Beta 22 / SOHA II
 
I was about to get the HD650. I have heard the HD650 on a few occasions and have a good idea on how it sounded like. I like the full bodied and non fatiguing presentation.
 
But then I heard the LCD-2, it seemed that the smoothness of the ortho is not something that HD650 can match. However I am not paying that much for a headphone. On the other hand, however I have not heard the HD650 in my system, which might or might not be better from the condition that I auditioned.
 
The common wisdom tells us that what dictates the sound quality most is the headphone > source > amp. However, from what I already own, it appeared that my spending is the exactly other way round.

 
Question:
 
If you were me, would you be looking at the HE-500? Which cost almost twice as much as the HD650. Or would you not worry and just stick with the HD650 and allow the headphone the cheapest component in your system?

 
You do have some excellent source and amp options in your possession.  One thing with the HD650 is that it can scale well with better sources and amps.  I've listened to HD650's played out of a beta22 briefly at meets over the past couple of years and it can definitely drive them with authority, with good control of the bass, silky smooth mids and adequate highs, though slightly rolled off. 
 
If the HD650 is in your budget and the HE-500 or LCD2 isn't, there is no harm in picking the HD650.  The HD650 resale value has held up well over the years in case you have additional funds to upgrade in the future. 
 
 

 

[maarek99]

I just bought a second pair of HD650's to replace my 2005 variant. There is a difference in sound between the pairs. New one is the white screen, old one black. One immediate difference is that the new one is clearly louder. I just plugged the old one out and put the new one in. Had to lower the volume to get the same level. Also this new one sounds...better. Will be testing this difference out now.

 

[olor1n]

Quote:

Source: Rega DAC / Marantz SA-7001
Amp: Beta 22 / SOHA II
 
I was about to get the HD650. I have heard the HD650 on a few occasions and have a good idea on how it sounded like. I like the full bodied and non fatiguing presentation.
 
But then I heard the LCD-2, it seemed that the smoothness of the ortho is not something that HD650 can match. However I am not paying that much for a headphone. On the other hand, however I have not heard the HD650 in my system, which might or might not be better from the condition that I auditioned.
 
The common wisdom tells us that what dictates the sound quality most is the headphone > source > amp. However, from what I already own, it appeared that my spending is the exactly other way round.

 
Question:
 
If you were me, would you be looking at the HE-500? Which cost almost twice as much as the HD650. Or would you not worry and just stick with the HD650 and allow the headphone the cheapest component in your system?

 
 
Nothing wrong with "settling" for the HD650 if the higher cost of orthos requires justification. If you already have funds set aside for a new LCD-2 though, I'd suggest getting both the HE-500 and HD650. That way you get to spend time with both in your rig and not have the lingering "what if" hanging over you.
 
 
Quote:

I just bought a second pair of HD650's to replace my 2005 variant. There is a difference in sound between the pairs. New one is the white screen, old one black. One immediate difference is that the new one is clearly louder. I just plugged the old one out and put the new one in. Had to lower the volume to get the same level. Also this new one sounds...better. Will be testing this difference out now.

 
I've always maintained that the long burn in periods people have expressed for the HD650 is largely due to the pads compressing over time. I wonder if new vs well worn pads can explain the supposed difference between older HD650's and the newer white screened version.

 

[syphen606]

 
Quote:

 
 
Nothing wrong with "settling" for the HD650 if the higher cost of orthos requires justification. If you already have funds set aside for a new LCD-2 though, I'd suggest getting both the HE-500 and HD650. That way you get to spend time with both in your rig and not have the lingering "what if" hanging over you.
 
 
 
I've always maintained that the long burn in periods people have expressed for the HD650 is largely due to the pads compressing over time. I wonder if new vs well worn pads can explain the supposed difference between older HD650's and the newer white screened version.

Maarek99 should test by putting his old (2005) pads on his new ones and seeing if there is any difference in SQ?  I doubt it however. The drivers did change. Isn't that where 90% of the sound comes from?
 
That aside, I'm sitting here listening to Tragically Hip in FLAC with my HD650's and simply cannot get over how awesome these cans are. The smoothness and detail simply destroy my M50's and HD558.  By far the best set I have. Love the sound.
 
 

 

[Navyblue]

Thanks guy for your inputs.

I am also particularly interested if the HE-500 is as smooth and finely grained like the LCD-2, somewhere I read that the HiFiMAN's ortho driver isn't as grain free as other ortho. If so I might as well save the money and get the HD650.

 

[maarek99]

Yup, this change cannot be attributed to the pads. I've changed pads on my old 650 and it didn't really change the sound this much. This new pair has a lower bass level and higher treble. It's also more efficient. The old ones is more "veiled" and slightly slower which could just be a perceived difference because of the bass and volume.
 
But there is a difference that has to be attributed to the change in drivers, not just pads. The old one is not bad by any means and can sound wonderful, but the new is just more neutral. I actually consider this a more meaningful "upgrade" than when I bought the T1. Oh well

 
There was also a slight missbalance in the bass levels on the previous hd650 (more bass on the right driver) which is now gone. I'll still be testing some stuff out to rule out the pads and levels completely.

 

[IEMCrazy]

 
Quote:

I've always maintained that the long burn in periods people have expressed for the HD650 is largely due to the pads compressing over time. I wonder if new vs well worn pads can explain the supposed difference between older HD650's and the newer white screened version.

 
I definitely think that the pads contribute to those estimates.  But as of day 2 with new pads, a little of that excessive veil and distance has settled back in, and some of the difference between listening positions has been reduced (but not eliminated.)  The sound stage is still wider than it was with excessively close pads.   I imagine some people's perceived 100-200 hour burn-in is waiting for the pads to settle enough to give a closer more treble happy soundstage, and the other part is sheer placebo of getting used to the sound signature.
 
That doesn't negate the real need for burn-in.  With the new pads these still sound broken in, they don't have that stiff, stilted sound of new out of the box 650's.   Some time is definitely needed to flex the materials and loosen them up from their factory-new status.   But I imagine they get usably loose within a few days, and open mostly fully within a few weeks.  Maybe a little more over a longer time, but not significantly.   When I compare my pair with 1000-2000 hours on them to a new pair with maybe 40-50 hours on them, there's only slightly different sonics to mine....and most of that difference is probably due more to just a different set of drivers than "burn-in."
 
But for someone who desires a little closer sound, or slightly more forward, I can see where in a few hundred hours the pads settle to a point that will deliver the sound one is looking for. 

 

[RodSmith]

Just got mine and all I can say is wow! and that's through my hp elitebook laptop. Can't wait for my D7 to turn up to see what these can really do! Even without it I'm hearing detail that I've never heard before.
 
Money well spent.
 
 

 

[nicholars]

Got my HD 650's today and I am VERY impressed.... They are exactly what I was looking for after trying grado, denon d2000, Shure etc.
 
Admittedly they do lack a little bass slam but this is MORE then made up for by the overall quality of the imaging, soundstage and just general smoothness and quality of the sound.... Stunning! these are keepers! IMO the actual quality and refined nature of the sound is a LOT better then the D2000... A much more refined, higher quality sounding pair of headphones tbh

 

[davidgotsa]

Which amp are you using nicholars?

 

[nicholars]

Foobar WASAPI > Xonar D2 soundcard > Cambridge audio Dacmagic > NAD 315BEE integrated amp headphone jack....
 
Tbh the imaging on these headphones is stunning.... Never heard anything like it! The quality of the soundstage and imaging on these obliterates the Denons and Shures I had previously and the sound is sooooo smoooth! (I got the newer silver version).. They might have a bit less bass impact etc. But the actual quality of the sound is much better tbh

 

[Austin Morrow]

I've recently been testing out the Music Streamer II+ with the Valhalla & HD650. It's one of the best setups under 1K that I've heard. THe HD650 comes to life with that setup.

 

[Bonobo Loco]

How do you get the most out of the 650 when your source is a laptop running flac files, foobar/wasapi etc.?
 
Do You need an external sound card, plus amp and dac? Or just something like the Fiio e17 direct from laptop to headphone? Is there some additional step I'm missing? Thanks in advance.

 

[Austin Morrow]

Quote:

How do you get the most out of the 650 when your source is a laptop running flac files, foobar/wasapi etc.?
 
Do You need an external sound card, plus amp and dac? Or just something like the Fiio e17 direct from laptop to headphone? Is there some additional step I'm missing? Thanks in advance.

The FiiO E17 should provide enough power for the HD650. However, to get the most out of the HD650, your going to need a good amp + DAC setup.

 

[nicholars]

You want a decent soundcard > external DAC > amp > headphones for best sound