[tobold]

I've had my HD650s for some time now and I absolutely love it. But. I recently got custom IEMs (Sleek Audio CT6) and they seem so much more detailed (and brighter, too, but that's not what I'm after primarily) than my 650s.
So I was wondering, is that just the laid-back sound or is my Nuforce Icon HDP just not up to driving the 650s?
 
If it's totally terrible what affordable amp would you recommend for the 650s? Either with DAC (I could sell my Icon HDP, thus freeing up some money [I hope]) or without (so it should be cheaper).
Or should I just accept the laid-back sound and buy a pair of Beyerdynamic DT880 or similar for when I feel I need bright details?

 

[Unfie]

I bought the HD 650's in late July of last year after following this thread for months along with the Headroom Desktop Amp. I feel like my audiophile journey is already over. For those you wanting to get the burn-in over with, I'd actually suggest listening to the headphones straight of the box. Part of the journey/fun for me was watching the sound signature change whether it was mental or actually happening.
 
On the headroom desktop amp, I find that the brightness filter 1, crossfeed on, and high gain work best for me. With the brightness filter, I'll sometimes alternate between 1 and 2 for funsies, but I find that the HD 650's have strong enough mids so the 1 helps boost the treble a little bit. High gain lets me switch between sources without really needing to change the volume (I use the amp for my TV, PS3, and Cowon J3). I need to have the crossfeed on because it somehow enhances the bass (whether perceived or actual).
 
With the headphones and the amp (which also serves as a DAC), it cost me almost $1200. But I think it was well worth it. I don't see myself ever wanting to upgrade.

 

[ardilla]

This would be the cheaper option... The HD650 grows with amplification quality, and you can spend loads of money. But to make HD650 a bright can isn't easy. If it weren't for the budget issue, I'd recommend the Grace m902.... it really brings out the bright of the HD650
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Or should I just accept the laid-back sound and buy a pair of Beyerdynamic DT880 or similar for when I feel I need bright details?

 

 

[Austin Morrow]

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This would be the cheaper option... The HD650 grows with amplification quality, and you can spend loads of money. But to make HD650 a bright can isn't easy. If it weren't for the budget issue, I'd recommend the Grace m902.... it really brings out the bright of the HD650


 

I'd love to try the Grace with the HD650. From what I've heard, a really bright amp plus a silver cable really makes a worlds difference when it comes to being brighter and having a more sparkly top end (not to confuse bright and sparkly).

 

[ac500]

What is kind of interesting is people seem to be recommending the Grace m902/903 for the HD800 as well, which is confusing since the HD800 is bright already. Maybe it's just a really detailed amp as opposed to being particularly bright.

 

[Kiwikat]

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If you like the sound of your HD650s, why upgrade your headphones? They don't cost $1500, but like Digital-Pride said, until the HD800 came out, they were the top shelf headphones from Sennheiser, and they still sound like it.

I really do like the sound coming from my HD650's.  I think that a better DAC and amp would just make them better.  I'd also like to try out some Grado's someday.  Everybody seems to regard them very highly for rock music.
 
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Just some thoughts..
I have the DL III in my main system and it's an awesome DAC. Powered by Rotel 15 series gear into Martin Logan Vista's.  Just a dream (for me at least).
Hooked up my Matrix Mini-i into my main system and was disappointed but do love the Matrix DAC/Amp combo for my 650's.
Heard the 650's through a Mac to the Matrix to a modded Little Dot III and it blew my mind even comparing the to the LCD 2's side by side.
Was considering the Woo Audio 6 but have decided on the Lyr (I got a little pissed at the TAS show when I went to the Woo booth to listen to the WA6 and they basically ignored me when I said that I had the HD650's.. I would have bought it on the spot if I got a decent demo and liked it).  Either way, even though I haven't heard it yet, I don't think the Bifrost will disappoint.
My end goal is to have the Bifrost/Lyr in the office and the Matrix in the bedroom.

 
Thanks for the feedback.  I don't think I could pull a WA6 and a DL III.  Guess I'm looking at either the WA6 + Bifrost or the Lyr + Bifrost.  Maybe I should just go for the Schiit combo.  They're relatively small (easily fit on my shelf), and stack on top of each other.  I don't think I could stack a WA6 on top of a Bifrost...

 

[John Willett]

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I'd love to try the Grace with the HD650. From what I've heard, a really bright amp plus a silver cable really makes a worlds difference when it comes to being brighter and having a more sparkly top end (not to confuse bright and sparkly).

 
I would not call the Grace bright at all - just accurate and revealing.

 
 

 

[John Willett]

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What is kind of interesting is people seem to be recommending the Grace m902/903 for the HD800 as well, which is confusing since the HD800 is bright already. Maybe it's just a really detailed amp as opposed to being particularly bright.

As I said, I don't find the Grace bright at all - just accurate and revealing.
 
It was actually designed as a professional tool by Michael Grace, who is a recording engineer, and as such is actually a superb monitoring tool.
 
I am not a headphone or hi-fi fanatic - I am a recording engineer who wants his equipment to accurately reveal to me what was going on in the room while the music was being recorded.
 
And, yes, accuracy gives me great pleasure when I can hear the passion of the music and the performer.
 
I don't want warmth, I don't want a muddy and over heavy bass - I just wand as close to reality as I can get.
 
The Grace m902 / 903 gives me that and the HD 80o gives me that........
 
 

 

[ac500]

What kind of annoys me about head-fi is sometimes it's not a very good place for people who don't like tubes. I've asked amp-related questions for my headphones before, and I think literally EVERY single time, even though I state in bold text "no tubes, I want SS", 90% of the suggestions are for tube amps!!! It's like the words "I don't want tubes" around here just becomes invisible or ignored.
 
I'm still considering the grace for something in the future for my HD800 although it seems that it might be much more inexpensive to build an even better amp (I assume?) like the Beta22.

 

[Austin Morrow]

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What kind of annoys me about head-fi is sometimes it's not a very good place for people who don't like tubes. I've asked amp-related questions for my headphones before, and I think literally EVERY single time, even though I state in bold text "no tubes, I want SS", 90% of the suggestions are for tube amps!!! It's like the words "I don't want tubes" around here just becomes invisible or ignored.
 
I'm still considering the grace for something in the future for my HD800 although it seems that it might be much more inexpensive to build an even better amp (I assume?) like the Beta22.

I can see why people like and don't like tubes. Here's my opinion, I think tubes, no matter what model, always have a different sound signature, there is no such thing as the classic tube sound. There are SS's that sound like tubes and tubes that sound like SS's. I only prefer tubes because I think they look a lot cooler and it's a lot more fun, IMO, to tube roll than op amp roll. I still think the B22 would be a great combo for the HD800 and the Grace as well. Personally, I'd prefer a Wyred 4 Sound DAC2, and a Minute 45 since it's slow and relaxing, which will be perfect for smooth jazz and classical on the HD800 (If I get the HD800, that is, I might just stick with the HD700).
 
For now, my HA-160DS and HD650 will have to do, and for the sound that the HD650 is spitting out via the Burson, I won't need to upgrade for awhile. 

 

[daigo]

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What kind of annoys me about head-fi is sometimes it's not a very good place for people who don't like tubes. I've asked amp-related questions for my headphones before, and I think literally EVERY single time, even though I state in bold text "no tubes, I want SS", 90% of the suggestions are for tube amps!!! It's like the words "I don't want tubes" around here just becomes invisible or ignored.

 
Sometimes people are too fast to offer up suggestions when they are really excited about the equipment they like and skip over minor details in the OP requests.  Personally, I tried a tube amp at first because I thought they looked cool and ended up finding a tube amp that also suited the music I listen to well.  

 

[Kiwikat]

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For now, my HA-160DS and HD650 will have to do, and for the sound that the HD650 is spitting out via the Burson, I won't need to upgrade for awhile. 

Interesting.  This would be a much better solution for me than having two separate units.  I think I might just have to go for the Burson.  Hurry up tax return!  

I'd even have money for another pair of cans.  RS1i perhaps?

 

[thelostMIDrange]

kiwi, As a former owner of both senn 600 and 650 as well as many grados. I can't recommend the grados' in general or for 'rock'. And I am primarily a rock n roller. In general, rock music (classic rock not as much) is over produced in the same areas as the grados are also 'boosted' and add those two together and what you have is a little bit too much hot and distorted sounds. Especially in plastic cups. The new magnum drivers people in the know are using for their grado addictions are much nicer, smoother and more natural. As is the hf2 (which I can recommend for rock) and likely the 500 which is reported as being similar............... But overall, I enjoyed my senn 650 for rock music, even though it was a more laid back and 'distant' sound. I ultimately sold mine because I didn't want to invest $1000 in an amp to lift the veil, which I felt was a real phenomenon, even on the similar but less dark 600.

 
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I really do like the sound coming from my HD650's.  I think that a better DAC and amp would just make them better.  I'd also like to try out some Grado's someday.  Everybody seems to regard them very highly for rock music.
 
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Thanks for the feedback.  I don't think I could pull a WA6 and a DL III.  Guess I'm looking at either the WA6 + Bifrost or the Lyr + Bifrost.  Maybe I should just go for the Schiit combo.  They're relatively small (easily fit on my shelf), and stack on top of each other.  I don't think I could stack a WA6 on top of a Bifrost...

 

 

[Kiwikat]

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kiwi, As a former owner of both senn 600 and 650 as well as many grados. I can't recommend the grados' in general or for 'rock'. And I am primarily a rock n roller. In general, rock music (classic rock not as much) is over produced in the same areas as the grados are also 'boosted' and add those two together and what you have is a little bit too much hot and distorted sounds. Especially in plastic cups. The new magnum drivers people in the know are using for their grado addictions are much nicer, smoother and more natural. As is the hf2 (which I can recommend for rock) and likely the 500 which is reported as being similar............... But overall, I enjoyed my senn 650 for rock music, even though it was a more laid back and 'distant' sound. I ultimately sold mine because I didn't want to invest $1000 in an amp to lift the veil, which I felt was a real phenomenon, even on the similar but less dark 600.

 
What'd you recommend then? (something that is a little more available than the HF2)  My spending limit is < $1000.  
 
The 650's are great for more laid back rock like Floyd but I'd like something a little more "exciting" for Zeppelin and Queen types of rock.  Even U2 begs for a little more excitement than what my 650's are giving me. 

 

[Tfrank]

I am about to get back into headfi and have decided to purchase a pair of used hd650s. Im looking for a budget way to power these. Anyone have experience using the Little Dot Dac_II (DAC/AMP) with these?