[Hughkk]

just saw the bottlehead crack.
cost only 219USD, is it worth getting this and pair with hd650 over m-stage matrix?
 
 

 

[LugBug1]

Quote:

so does hd650 pair better with a tube amp than a solid state-one?
 

In my 6 year experience with the 650's with budget to mid price amps I'd go for tubes. Solid state in general can give you a brighter sound (not mosfet designs) which some peeps need with the 650's but thats about it. I was happy with SS for years until I tried a hybrid amp and then I started to hear what the 650's are capable of. I've never understood why some folks find them boring... The soundstage with a good tube amp is fantastic with these cans, almost 3D like imaging with instruments seemingly coming from different parts of the room, this can be a great listening experience especially with big orchestral music for e.g.
 
Anyways, moving on to OTL amps and everything improves tenfold. Now we have speed and timing aswell as soundstage. I own two SS amps Creek obh21se  and Neco soundlabs V2.1 (normal gain) and both sound sluggish in comparison to my OTL.
 
I think in general, headphone impedance should play a big factor when choosing any amp, The lower the impedance the more current needed then your phones will be happier with transformer based amplification. The higher the impedance then the more voltage needed and this is where tubes can deliver. The 650's are 300ohms and this is high. So in the words of Bon Scott they need "High Voltage!!"

 

[Hughkk]

Quote:

In my 6 year experience with the 650's with budget to mid price amps I'd go for tubes. Solid state in general can give you a brighter sound (not mosfet designs) which some peeps need with the 650's but thats about it. I was happy with SS for years until I tried a hybrid amp and then I started to hear what the 650's are capable of. I've never understood why some folks find them boring... The soundstage with a good tube amp is fantastic with these cans, almost 3D like imaging with instruments seemingly coming from different parts of the room, this can be a great listening experience especially with big orchestral music for e.g.
 
Anyways, moving on to OTL amps and everything improves tenfold. Now we have speed and timing aswell as soundstage. I own two SS amps Creek obh21se  and Neco soundlabs V2.1 (normal gain) and both sound sluggish in comparison to my OTL.
 
I think in general, headphone impedance should play a big factor when choosing any amp, The lower the impedance the more current needed then your phones will be happier with transformer based amplification. The higher the impedance then the more voltage needed and this is where tubes can deliver. The 650's are 300ohms and this is high. So in the words of Bon Scott they need "High Voltage!!"

so getting crack is better than getting m-stage matrix/asgard?

 

[Cliff-Samuels]

I just noticed this thread, while i'm not new to the HD650's as I used to have a pair a while ago I have since got another pair & with a whole lot of new gear to go with them.
 
I think the HD650's are one hell of a headphone once you get the right amp, I can listen to them for hours & hours with any fatigue, something I could'nt say with the Grado 325's I sold.
 
I just wish they were not so clampy on my head, I found the HD800 much more wearable, the 650's push on the side of my specs but its a small price to pay as they sound so good.

 

[LugBug1]

Quote:

so getting crack is better than getting m-stage matrix/asgard?

Because I haven't tried any of those 3 amps I can only recommend what I would go for based on my experience with other similar amps. So, yes the Crack would be the one for me definately. But as always, when buying equipment based on other peoples opinions, try and find as many reviews as possible, as one persons opinion may differ greatly to the next. 
 
Based on other headfiers experience with the Crack, it does seem like a bargain! 
 

 

[MayaTlab]

Quote:

In my 6 year experience with the 650's with budget to mid price amps I'd go for tubes. Solid state in general can give you a brighter sound (not mosfet designs) which some peeps need with the 650's but thats about it. I was happy with SS for years until I tried a hybrid amp and then I started to hear what the 650's are capable of. I've never understood why some folks find them boring... The soundstage with a good tube amp is fantastic with these cans, almost 3D like imaging with instruments seemingly coming from different parts of the room, this can be a great listening experience especially with big orchestral music for e.g.
 
Anyways, moving on to OTL amps and everything improves tenfold. Now we have speed and timing aswell as soundstage. I own two SS amps Creek obh21se  and Neco soundlabs V2.1 (normal gain) and both sound sluggish in comparison to my OTL.
 
I think in general, headphone impedance should play a big factor when choosing any amp, The lower the impedance the more current needed then your phones will be happier with transformer based amplification. The higher the impedance then the more voltage needed and this is where tubes can deliver. The 650's are 300ohms and this is high. So in the words of Bon Scott they need "High Voltage!!"

I think it's much less a question of technology than the way it's used - in other words implementation. 
I think the main role of an amp is to be reasonable accurate. If a SS amp sounds brighter (BTW, amps, unless badly designed, don't change frequency response except if they have a very high output impedance), then it's just badly designed. If a tube amp sounds tubey, then it's no good either. Most higher end SS amps (V200, etc.) are said not to display the usual "SS glare" and high quality tube amps don't sound too warm or slow (Zana Deux, Apex Peak).
As an example, although I'd say the TTVJ Slim is a little too coloured to my tastes, it still doesn't sound in the slightest like the usual less than stelar SS amps.
As far as voltage goes, high quality SS amps don't run out of juice at all in comparison to OTL tube amps. As an example the Violectric V100 outputs somewhere around 20V into 600 ohms - much more than what your headphones will ever need and likely just as much as the best OTL amp out there.
 
Personally I'd rather care for who designs the amp, and see if both "objectivists" and "subjectivists" agree that it's a good one, all subordinated to reports of the amp synergy with a particular pair of headphones (even though I'd be quite inclined to think that an amp that sounds great with anything is likely to be a very well designed one). I wouldn't look for particular technologies at all.

 

[sphinxvc]

Quote:

From a design standpoint - as relatively efficient, high impedance cans, the HD650's pair beautifully with OTL tube amps - a topology that generally delivers ample voltage swing but not a lot of current.  Inefficient low impedance headphones, by contrast, need lots of current - which is easy to get out of solid state and/or hybrid designs.  This is why you don't want to try and drive planars, or even K701's for that matter, out of *most* OTL tube amps.  
 
Based on the time I've spent lurking on head-fi over the past several years, my sense has been that the majority seem to prefer sennheisers via tubes, but I've never counted.  Certainly, there are plenty of satisfied listeners on both sides of the aisle.  A well designed amp from either camp should get the job done, but if you have a chance to attend a meet and do some listening for yourself, I'd strongly encourage you to do so.     
 
Hughkk: with a budget of $350 - I'll definitely join twinster and captouch in recommending the crack.  I've been to CanJam and listened to a huge number of amps, and it is definitely the best value with the HD650's and 800's that I'm aware of.  If you have a chance, take a look at the comments/excerpts on the BH site from numerous head-fiers, as well as highly respected pros like Tyll and Steve Gutenberg: http://www.bottlehead.com/store.php?crn=224&rn=442&action=show_detail

Def. agree, OTL tubes are for HD650s/HD800s, etc.  I would go in the same direction.  On a tangent: I heard the balanced RWA Corvina with HD650s recently, not bad at all.  But $1.5K is a bit much to invest in HD650s (JMO).
 
I hear they run reel-to-reel at the Bottlehead booth at Canjam, and that the owner also produces masters, which means that the source material at their booth is most excellent.
 
It all works into the equation.

 

[Hughkk]

Quote:

Quote:

Def. agree, OTL tubes are for HD650s/HD800s, etc.  I would go in the same direction.  On a tangent: I heard the balanced RWA Corvina with HD650s recently, not bad at all.  But $1.5K is a bit much to invest in HD650s (JMO).
 
I hear they run reel-to-reel at the Bottlehead booth at Canjam, and that the owner also produces masters, which means that the source material at their booth is most excellent.
 
It all works into the equation.

thanks
 
i think i will be getting crack sometime soon
 

 

[GeorgeNapalm]

Quote:

for example little dot III with hd650. good combination? or should i get a better solid-amp?

Excellent combination to my ears. Especially with 6J1P Russian tubes, which are quite inexpensive.  And I didn't have to use the highest gain - 5 was more that enough for hd650.

 

[SemiAudiophile]

For budget tubes, I'd go with LD MKIII or the Bottlehead Crack + Speedball if you can DIY. Never been a fan of SS with HD650 unless balanced, but Asgard sounds like it might be a good choice. Any of the Schitt amps should do well also. I'm not a big fan of hybrids through.

 

[Hughkk]

Quote:

For budget tubes, I'd go with LD MKIII or the Bottlehead Crack + Speedball if you can DIY. Never been a fan of SS with HD650 unless balanced, but Asgard sounds like it might be a good choice. Any of the Schitt amps should do well also. I'm not a big fan of hybrids through.

comparing LD MKIII to bottlehead crack+speed ball,
are there big difference between two?
 
I am rubbish at DIY.

 

[SemiAudiophile]

I've only heard the Crack very briefly at meet with the HD600's but sounded great. Can't really give any formal comparisons since I've sold my LD MKIII years ago. Both great amps though.

 

[ac500]

I'm leaning towards the Yulong D100, seems it's amp is about as good as a Matrix M-stage which I've heard good things about? Mostly I'm trying to figure the best DAC/Amp combo for the HD650 under about $500.

 

[SemiAudiophile]

Highly recommend NFB-10SE if you're looking for solid state. There really is no better deal out there at that price point.

 

[ac500]

So NFB-12SE > Yulong D100?