[Nirvana Woman]

I think it's entirely fine if people like to buy expensive amps for the HD650, as long as it's their money. I just wish people didn't believe so commonly that you cannot enjoy them with basic decent gear. I've heard the HD650 with many different amps including tube amps, an integrated and a soundcard. For me I didn't notice any real difference, they sounded great from all those outputs. The HD650 is a real good headphone but it has weaknesses too (small soundstage, poor subbass), I never heard them with any amp that changed that. It's sad I think if someone would like to experience HD650 or especially HD6XX which is such amazing value but then they are made to think oh you cannot do that you don't have the gear!

 

[457139]

I think it's entirely fine if people like to buy expensive amps for the HD650, as long as it's their money. I just wish people didn't believe so commonly that you cannot enjoy them with basic decent gear. I've heard the HD650 with many different amps including tube amps, an integrated and a soundcard. For me I didn't notice any real difference, they sounded great from all those outputs. The HD650 is a real good headphone but it has weaknesses too (small soundstage, poor subbass), I never heard them with any amp that changed that. It's sad I think if someone would like to experience HD650 or especially HD6XX which is such amazing value but then they are made to think oh you cannot do that you don't have the gear!

Yea i haven't seen anyone saying that you shouldn't buy the 600 or 650/6XX if you don't have this or that amp. I agree a dongle is all you need. I listen to my 600 on my iBasso DC-04 Pro and am perfectly happy. I also enjoy it from my Violelectric V222 and Sony DAC. I hear differences. Is it a 90% difference? God no, but 10-25%, for sure. Not everyone is going to want to shell out for extra small percentage I get that. But for those that do you can get more out of your 600/650. I count myself in with those that were skeptical about the scalability of the 6 series headphones. I'm def a believer now ha

 

[megabigeye]

I think it's entirely fine if people like to buy expensive amps for the HD650, as long as it's their money. I just wish people didn't believe so commonly that you cannot enjoy them with basic decent gear. I've heard the HD650 with many different amps including tube amps, an integrated and a soundcard. For me I didn't notice any real difference, they sounded great from all those outputs. The HD650 is a real good headphone but it has weaknesses too (small soundstage, poor subbass), I never heard them with any amp that changed that. It's sad I think if someone would like to experience HD650 or especially HD6XX which is such amazing value but then they are made to think oh you cannot do that you don't have the gear!

This! I don't know how many times I've seen this basic interaction on head-fi where a new member says, "I'm looking for a new headphone and I think I'd really like the HD 6XX. I can afford only about $200, including amp." Then the experienced head-fi'er comes and says, "Oh, the HD 6XX/650 are great, but to get the most out of them you need to spend at least $500 on an amp, and it needs to have at least 15V, and it needs to be OTL." And then the newb slinks away either buying something they didn't really want and/or spending a lot more money than is necessary.

15 volts?! What on earth for?! You'd blow the drivers and your eardrums to kingdom come if the HD 650 ever saw anything close to 15 volts! OTL? Who cares! I mean, sure, a nice tube amp is nice, I'm sure, but you certainly don't need it to enjoy the headphones.

 

[kman1211]

Yea i haven't seen anyone saying that you shouldn't buy the 600 or 650/6XX if you don't have this or that amp. I agree a dongle is all you need. I listen to my 600 on my iBasso DC-04 Pro and am perfectly happy. I also enjoy it from my Violelectric V222 and Sony DAC. I hear differences. Is it a 90% difference? God no, but 10-25%, for sure. Not everyone is going to want to shell out for extra small percentage I get that. But for those that do you can get more out of your 600/650. I count myself in with those that were skeptical about the scalability of the 6 series headphones. I'm def a believer now ha

Oh the HD 6xx series does scale without question, but I found them scale about the same as the DT 880 - 600 Ohm for instance. Though the classic trio do scale nicely in general, and all of those can be had for quite cheap. I do think their scaling ability is exaggerated a bit and they can for sure be listened to with pleasure on all sorts of gear. They do sound good on basic gear, but there is a noticeable improvement with better quality gear. Sad reality in this hobby a lot of gear whether headphones, amps, and dacs aren't priced appropriately for their sound quality. The HD 600/6XX/650, DT 880, etc. are some of the few headphones that are proper good values.

 

[megabigeye]

Oh the HD 6xx series does scale without question, but I found them scale about the same as the DT 880 - 600 Ohm for instance. Though the classic trio do scale nicely in general, and all of those can be had for quite cheap. I do think their scaling ability is exaggerated a bit and they can for sure be listened to with pleasure on all sorts of gear. They do sound good on basic gear, but there is a noticeable improvement with better quality gear. Sad reality in this hobby a lot of gear whether headphones, amps, and dacs aren't priced appropriately for their sound quality. The HD 600/6XX/650, DT 880, etc. are some of the few headphones that are proper good values.

I don't think it scales without question! Sound different/more preferable/"better" from tubes to solid state, from amp to amp? Sure, maybe, depending on the amp. But that's talking about completely different amps with completely different designs. There are more differences between the Crack and the Atom and the Apple dongle than just their maximum voltage, so it seems funny to me that people latch onto the power spec as the important part. Scaling with more power just doesn't make any logical sense that I can see.
And you'll have to define "better quality gear" for me to agree with that. I mean, to me, good quality gear is audibly transparent, and that can be had hella cheap, E.G., the Apple dongle. The Atom Amp is good when I'm doubting myself or just want a (really chintzy feeling) knob. Anything else is just a different flavor. Different, but not objectively better, and I'm just not willing to shell out money (or take up space in my home) for that.

I guess the truth is that I'm just kind of tired of the head-fi game. I'd really rather just chill out and listen to some amazing music. I love me some free jazz and just discovered Mali Obomsawin. She's like Albert Ayler, if Albert Ayler were a woman. And a bassist and vocalist. And Native American. Freaking fabulous.

What have you all discovered that you're enjoying wiht the HD 650/6XX?

 

[Digital Enigma]

Some think it sounds the same on everything from dongles to tube amps, dacs don't make a difference, scaling Is a myth and the headphone is the only thing that matters and some think there's a bit more to it with amplifier pairing, component quality and higher power output that the HD600/650 can benefit from. Let's agree to disagree and move on.

 

[FritzS]

@megabigeye is this on that album? ->>
Mali Obomsawin – Sweet Tooth
Where I could download this music files in uncompressed format?

 

[megabigeye]

@megabigeye is this on that album? ->>
Mali Obomsawin – Sweet Tooth
Where I could download this music files in uncompressed format?

Yes, that's the one. Available from BandCamp.

 

[WILLJS]

Some think it sounds the same on everything from dongles to tube amps, dacs don't make a difference, scaling Is a myth and the headphone is the only thing that matters and some think there's a bit more to it with amplifier pairing, component quality and higher power output that the HD600/650 can benefit from. Let's agree to disagree and move on.

all parts of the chain matter, but i agree, it is not worth the argument, audio is subjective anyway

 

[dakanao]

Some think it sounds the same on everything from dongles to tube amps, dacs don't make a difference, scaling Is a myth and the headphone is the only thing that matters and some think there's a bit more to it with amplifier pairing, component quality and higher power output that the HD600/650 can benefit from. Let's agree to disagree and move on.

Yep. Different gear simply sounds different. Even the cheap HRT Microstreamer and Geek Out 450 I used to have back in the day sounded different from each other.

Hearing a difference is another matter. Those who can’t are blissed with their wallet.

 

[Digital Enigma]

Yep. Different gear simply sounds different. Even the cheap HRT Microstreamer and Geek Out 450 I used to have back in the day sounded different from each other.

Hearing a difference is another matter. Those who can’t are blissed with their wallet.

I’m 31 with no hearing loss and can hear up to 17khz. I’m not saying I’m better than anyone else at all at hearing differences but I definitely hear subtle differences that I appreciate. My audiologist said I have very sensitive hearing in small changes that even he couldn’t pick up on.

You could take it as a blessing or a curse, all I know is I don’t mind spending more money on that extra 10%

This is not about spending thousands on an amplifier to get the best but imo you can do better than a weak dongle for a 300ohm headphone.

 

[tyk103]

I will say that I notice a difference in sound between my M1 MacBook Pro 14" (2021) and my SMSL SH-9 with my HD6XX.

 

[jasonb]

I will say that I notice a difference in sound between my M1 MacBook Pro 14" (2021) and my SMSL SH-9 with my HD6XX.

I notice a difference between my Qudelix 5K and everything else. The 5K to me lacks any authority and sounds too clinical.

 

[castleofargh]

Some think it sounds the same on everything from dongles to tube amps, dacs don't make a difference, scaling Is a myth and the headphone is the only thing that matters and some think there's a bit more to it with amplifier pairing, component quality and higher power output that the HD600/650 can benefit from. Let's agree to disagree and move on.

It’s not about those types of absolutisms. From my perspective it’s kind of the opposite, where people compare apple to oranges, and do so, poorly, but only come up with comments about how power made the difference.
Once you start looking for serious voltages, chances are you’ll see some designs more than others. Already, are we talking power or some appeal for those designs(audio appeal or other)?
You’re also more likely to fall into one of 2 groups, the real powerful, or the high impedance tube amp designed for high impedance loads with a generous list of potential causes for sound differences depending on design. Are people using those amps really estimating things relatively to power needs? Can they?

In practice, dongles probably won’t output high power. Now it’s time to drop the vagueness of "enough" power and "adequately" driven, and to quantify our needs. To reach 115dB we need about 4V or 50mW into that headphone(yes at 1kHz, for those who care).
Many dongles don’t do that. End of discussion.

Except that most people don’t use or need 115dB SPL into their ears when listening to music. I can spend weeks without sending above half a volt into my 650. I use it at home at night to relax. It’s quiet and my volume level isn’t trying to cover up other noises.
I don’t have any dongle, but one that can feed high fidelity audio at half a volt into 300+ ohm probably exists. Most do 1 or 2V nowadays and tend to measure well into high impedance(it’s more often the low impedance loads that turn out to be trickier to drive).

 

[dakanao]

It’s not about those types of absolutisms. From my perspective it’s kind of the opposite, where people compare apple to oranges, and do so, poorly, but only come up with comments about how power made the difference.
Once you start looking for serious voltages, chances are you’ll see some designs more than others. Already, are we talking power or some appeal for those designs(audio appeal or other)?
You’re also more likely to fall into one of 2 groups, the real powerful, or the high impedance tube amp designed for high impedance loads with a generous list of potential causes for sound differences depending on design. Are people using those amps really estimating things relatively to power needs? Can they?

In practice, dongles probably won’t output high power. Now it’s time to drop the vagueness of "enough" power and "adequately" driven, and to quantify our needs. To reach 115dB we need about 4V or 50mW into that headphone(yes at 1kHz, for those who care).
Many dongles don’t do that. End of discussion.

Except that most people don’t use or need 115dB SPL into their ears when listening to music. I can spend weeks without sending above half a volt into my 650. I use it at home at night to relax. It’s quiet and my volume level isn’t trying to cover up other noises.
I don’t have any dongle, but one that can feed high fidelity audio at half a volt into 300+ ohm probably exists. Most do 1 or 2V nowadays and tend to measure well into high impedance(it’s more often the low impedance loads that turn out to be trickier to drive).

That’s why I said different designs make more difference to the sound than power requierments.