[cskippy]

Guess that I shouldn't mention that I recently bought a turntable for the first time in 30 year........oops, I slipped

Just before Schiit releases their own? Too soon junior...

 

[DavidA]

What's a good place to start with an amp? I have a Yulong u100 I've been using for two years now but I'm having that ol itch. Been out of the game for a while.... Is it as simple as a Magni 2 uber or similar? What's the current consensus on a good price/performance amp? Also looking for maybe going balanced.... any ideas for a cable and amp?

This is my take on price/performance amps for the HD650:
Jot: great pairing and can't be beat if you want to try a balanced setup, but can be bright with some headphones like the HD800, HE560 and T1 to me
Asgard2: sound is similar to the Jot but without the balanced option
Project Ember: one of the most flexible amps around due to the selectable output impedance, will pair great with the HD650 but also need to consider the tube used
BH Crack: about as good as it gets under $1000, its where I found why many say that synergy between amp and headphone in more important that power
Liquid Carbon: another of the cheaper options of a balanced setup but for some this pairing can be a touch on the warm side, pairs well with almost any headphone IMO but maybe not the best with some headphones.
Project Polaris: like the Ember but SS and a bit cheaper without the option to roll tubes, also a bit on the warm side IMO but a great match for the HE560

 

[castleofargh]

@castleofargh
I think most consumers believe that higher impedance means higher resistance to the flow of power coming out of the amp. So naturally, a higher impedance can needs a more powerful amp, to "overcome" the higher resistivity and move and control those drivers optimally in a way that produces the sound quality they're capable of, regardless of volume level.

what determines a good electrical control of the driver is electrical damping. so I guess it's mainly a matter of using an amplifier with low enough impedance output.

Are you saying that all else being equal, that power alone, does not benefit the sound quality of high impedance cans, regardless? Are you saying that extra power only provides a single benefit - higher volume?
I think most consumers understand that there's a lot more to sound quality, when it comes to amps, than just how many mW or W it outputs. Ultimately, for most consumers, their ears and wallets will decide, not how much they know about amp designs.

if all things were really equal, considering a case of amp with enough power vs amp that could produce more power, then question of more power into the hd650 wouldn't exist. we'd have a given headphone at a given loudness, a given current and it would all result in a given power. the only ways to alter power would be to change the load(headphone) or change the loudness(voltage).

no the issue with most audiophiles is a fundamental misunderstanding about what the specs mean. when an amplifier is given at max power: 1W into 300ohm, what it means is that the amp must have a high gain of about 9X or more(assuming close to 2V coming from the DAC). to actually reach 1W into 300ohm we'd have to max out the output of that amp at the highest gain. but switch the amp to gain 2X(or whatever), or keep 9X but turn the volume down for preferred listening level, and you can say bye bye to delusions of mega power never used. the 1W value is conditional of turning the gain and volume knob up while plugged into the given load.
if the max power value is given at 1%THD into a load, it can mean 2 things:
-we reached the maximum volume level and the amp was still below 1%THD, so max power is based on maxed out volume and gain.
-or we raised the amp volume up to the point where we reached 1%THD into the load, and that's the voltage used to calculate max power.
some tube amp don't give values @1%THD because they are always above. but some just give max power and hope that people will assume it's the same thing as max power @1%THD. it's still power, but the power of marketing ^_^.
in practice, the hd650 being very loud at 4V(too loud for me), we end up in the area of U²/R=16/300=> about 50mW of power used(assuming no screwed up nonsense phase from the amp, or digital attenuation for various reasons).
when I first started looking into how to make rapid estimates of power needs, I remember finding this link interesting http://www.apexhifi.com/specs.html
obviously it only cares about the headphone needs, not that the amp is happy or that extra variables could improve audio or not. it's basic objective stuff from the headphone's perspective.

 

[x RELIC x]

^^^^ This ^^^^

 

[HungryPanda]

I got the Fostex HPA4BL, a balanced cable and now my HD650's sound amazing

 

[JWizzlez]

Need some Schiit Jotunheim advice:

I use my HD 650 for listening to Hip Hop and electronic music, but I'm not getting much bass slam and rumble using either a Maverick Audio D1 or a Chord Mojo. I tested my HD 650 on a Bryston BHA-1 amp and the bass was incredible, but that amp is out of my budget. I have seen so many people say the Schiit Jotunheim is the ultimate pairing with the HD 650, but I haven't seen anything about whether it gives the kind of bass power that is comparable to the Bryston. Does anyone here have experience with the Jotunheim and could say whether the HD 650 can get truly earth shattering bass the way it does with the Bryston? If so, the question is whether I should return my Mojo and get the DAC module in the Jotunheim, or keep the Mojo to use as a DAC for the Jotunheim and an amp/DAC for my IEMs. I have a portable rig for my IEMs already that is decent, but the Mojo is definitely a step up. I would keep the Mojo if the DAC in it is superior to the Jotunheim's, or get another standalone DAC that would pair better with the Jotunheim.

Appreciate the guidance!

 

[DavidA]

Need some Schiit Jotunheim advice:

I use my HD 650 for listening to Hip Hop and electronic music, but I'm not getting much bass slam and rumble using either a Maverick Audio D1 or a Chord Mojo. I tested my HD 650 on a Bryston BHA-1 amp and the bass was incredible, but that amp is out of my budget. I have seen so many people say the Schiit Jotunheim is the ultimate pairing with the HD 650, but I haven't seen anything about whether it gives the kind of bass power that is comparable to the Bryston. Does anyone here have experience with the Jotunheim and could say whether the HD 650 can get truly earth shattering bass the way it does with the Bryston? If so, the question is whether I should return my Mojo and get the DAC module in the Jotunheim, or keep the Mojo to use as a DAC for the Jotunheim and an amp/DAC for my IEMs. I have a portable rig for my IEMs already that is decent, but the Mojo is definitely a step up. I would keep the Mojo if the DAC in it is superior to the Jotunheim's, or get another standalone DAC that would pair better with the Jotunheim.

Appreciate the guidance!

I agree that the Jot is great for the HD650 but its because its a very clean SS amp that pairs well with the slightly warm HD650. Since you only list the HD6XX for headphones you might want to try a BH Crack, about the same price as the Jot even with the additional cost of better tubes. To me the BH Crack is a more musical pairing with the HD650 than the Jot but its my preference and it does have good bass but the HD650/6XX is not a headphone that I would use or recommend for Hip Hop and electronic music since its a bit to warm and the bass does not go very deep or have the "slam" that I like with electronic music, I don't listen to hip hop.

 

[Rob80b]

Need some Schiit Jotunheim advice:

.................... I tested my HD 650 on a Bryston BHA-1 amp and the bass was incredible, but that amp is out of my budget. I have seen so many people say the Schiit Jotunheim is the ultimate pairing with the HD 650, but I haven't seen anything about whether it gives the kind of bass power that is comparable to the Bryston. ....................

Appreciate the guidance!

The BHA-1 is not the only amp that’ll get decent base out of the HD650s and can’t comment on the very popular Schiit but I’ve had a Bryston as my main head-amp for a few years now with no desire to upgrade, if you’re into long-term use and don’t change amps every few months the BHA-1 might be the way to go.

The Canadian made BHA-1 only lets you hear what’s coming down the pipeline by amplifying the electrical signal as truthfully and noise free as possible, so in and of itself not reproducing more apparent base or enhancing the signal in any way and the synergy with the HD650s is fairly good as you've discovered.

Cost is not always indicative of performance or quality .... the Schiit looks like decent bang for the buck, the Bryston’s of a higher end pedigree and price has increased recently to almost $2000 US but used they do come up fairly often in the $800-900 US range and with its 20 year transferable warranty they would be a fine investment for long term musical enjoyment.

Pick ones poison…. : )

Schiit Jotunheim



BHA-1

 

[JWizzlez]

The BHA-1 is not the only amp that’ll get decent base out of the HD650s and can’t comment on the very popular Schiit but I’ve had a Bryston as my main head-amp for a few years now with no desire to upgrade, if you’re into long-term use and don’t change amps every few months the BHA-1 might be the way to go.

The Canadian made BHA-1 only lets you hear what’s coming down the pipeline by amplifying the electrical signal as truthfully and noise free as possible, so in and of itself not reproducing more apparent base or enhancing the signal in any way and the synergy with the HD650s is fairly good as you've discovered.

Cost is not always indicative of performance or quality .... the Schiit looks like decent bang for the buck, the Bryston’s of a higher end pedigree and price has increased recently to almost $2000 US but used they do come up fairly often in the $800-900 US range and with its 20 year transferable warranty they would be a fine investment for long term musical enjoyment.

Pick ones poison…. : )

Schiit Jotunheim



BHA-1

Thanks Rob80b.

Trust me, if I had the money to buy a used BHA-1, I would go for it. It's my favorite amp I've heard. But my budget is more at the Jotunheim/Burson Soloist level [$400-500].

So I'm just looking for input from someone who has heard some electronic/Hip Hop music on the HD 650/6xx + Jotunheim and can vouch for whether it has tremendous bass impact comparable to the BHA-1. I'm sure its overall performance won't be nearly as good for detail, resolve, soundstage, etc. But I have other equipment that provides that and I'm just looking for an amp to give me some basshead satisfaction which I know the BHA-1 + HD 650 provides in spades. I appreciate you not giving the incredibly irritating advice to change headphones, which is always pointless.

 

[JWizzlez]

I agree that the Jot is great for the HD650 but its because its a very clean SS amp that pairs well with the slightly warm HD650. Since you only list the HD6XX for headphones you might want to try a BH Crack, about the same price as the Jot even with the additional cost of better tubes. To me the BH Crack is a more musical pairing with the HD650 than the Jot but its my preference and it does have good bass but the HD650/6XX is not a headphone that I would use or recommend for Hip Hop and electronic music since its a bit to warm and the bass does not go very deep or have the "slam" that I like with electronic music, I don't listen to hip hop.

DavidA can you tell me if the Jot provides powerful bass slam when you listen to your electronic music? Like I said in my post, the HD 650 [I have the HD 6xx which is the same thing] was perfect for what I am looking for when used with the Bryston BHA-1. But since that amp is well beyond my budget, I am looking at the Jot. And while there are many great reviews about how the Jot and HD 650 are a match made in heaven, I haven't found any that include any discussion about modern electronic/Hip Hop music and the bass impact.

And I'm just asking about the Jot. I've listened to a super dupont + coin mod HD 650 with the Crack+Speedball and still found it to be too veiled for me. I was told I would prefer the Jot solid state instead, but haven't had any feedback about bass impact and want to get some before I buy one and have to pay the hefty return+restocking fee if I don't like it.

 

[cskippy]

Jot will eek out almost all the bass the HD650 can muster. It has tremendous driver control so decay is really fast which might make it seem less weighted but will really liven up the HD650.

Jot beat Project Ember, Liquid Carbon, and is close to Zana Deux for bass slam and clarity.

 

[Rob80b]

Thanks Rob80b.

Trust me, if I had the money to buy a used BHA-1,
....

That's why I mentioned "The BHA-1 is not the only amp that’ll get decent base out of the HD650s"....checking Schiit's website looks like they have a 15 day money back guarantee...seeing bass quantity is a subjective thing getting your hands on one might be the only way to get a definitive answer.

 

[JWizzlez]

Jot will eek out almost all the bass the HD650 can muster. It has tremendous driver control so decay is really fast which might make it seem less weighted but will really liven up the HD650.

Jot beat Project Ember, Liquid Carbon, and is close to Zana Deux for bass slam and clarity.

@Ckippy that's exactly what I was hoping to hear. Would you recommend I just get the DAC built in or is there another DAC you would recommend in a similar price range?

 

[DavidA]

DavidA can you tell me if the Jot provides powerful bass slam when you listen to your electronic music? Like I said in my post, the HD 650 [I have the HD 6xx which is the same thing] was perfect for what I am looking for when used with the Bryston BHA-1. But since that amp is well beyond my budget, I am looking at the Jot. And while there are many great reviews about how the Jot and HD 650 are a match made in heaven, I haven't found any that include any discussion about modern electronic/Hip Hop music and the bass impact.

And I'm just asking about the Jot. I've listened to a super dupont + coin mod HD 650 with the Crack+Speedball and still found it to be too veiled for me. I was told I would prefer the Jot solid state instead, but haven't had any feedback about bass impact and want to get some before I buy one and have to pay the hefty return+restocking fee if I don't like it.

I've never heard a HD650 with a super DuPont mod and this is the first I'm hearing about it, maybe others will chime in on this. I did hear the HD800 with a super Dupont mod and to me it killed the highs that I like with the stock HD800 so it may be why you felt that it was "veiled". The coin mod will make the HD650 a bit brighter so if you felt that the HD650 had a bit of a "veiled" sound then what you are looking for is a amp that is on the brighter side of neutral which is what I consider the Jot to be. Do you know what tubes were in the Crack when you heard it? I ask since the stock 6080 and 12AU7 are not the best, I've been using a TS5998 and Telefunken 12AU7 for the reason that the TS5998 has one of the lowest output impedance of output tubes for the BH Crack and the Telefunken is one of the cleanest with great treble extension which I think make a difference in how the Crack pairs with the HD650.

As the poster above noted what you consider good bass impact and what I consider good bass impact might not be the same so from my point of view the BH Crack with the tubes I have gives the HD650 good bass slam and a more musical presentation IMO, better than the Jot to me.

Hope a few others can give you other impressions of the HD650 + Jot.

 

[cskippy]

@Ckippy that's exactly what I was hoping to hear. Would you recommend I just get the DAC built in or is there another DAC you would recommend in a similar price range?

I would shy away from the built in DAC as most have said it's bright. Jot itself CAN be bright depending on associated gear. Any of Schiit's Multibit DACs are great pairings with Jot, although I would HIGHLY recommend getting the Bifrost Multibit as Schiit just released the Gen 5 USB board with USB isolation built in to the DAC, a substantial upgrade that pretty much obliterates all other USB>spdif converters.