[DavidA]

  you dont think the emotiva stealth would do it justice?
 
so for your 650hd do you use 2 dacs and 2 amps at the same time? or do you usually use either bitfrostt+lyr or ud301+bhcrack, etc. ? (sorry if this is a dumb question)
 
I feel that is not good for me considering most people ive met with 650hd usually stay around the 500$ range for dac/amp and they make much  more money then i do, so i really am in no position to buy 1000$ amp/dac.... im leaning most to the emotiva stealth cus it also has spidif input (i am a PC gamer and plan to utilize dolby surround for games too) - the emotiva steallth is the only thing i've found in that price range that has everything i want. 

I've never used the Emotiva Stealth but used to have a Emotiva pre-amp & amp a while back and it was pretty good, actually sold them to start this headphone journey.
 
Usually use Bifrost and BH Crack for the HD-650 but the Ember is also really good and great if you don't want to build the BH Crack.  Current Bifrost is $400 and Ember is $350, add $50 for shipping and you are at $800, for this you get a great DAC and one of the most versatile amps around, drives high z headphones like the HD-650 and planars like LCD-2f with no problem.  If you feel that dolby surround is a feature that only the Stealth provides then it will probably be your best bet at this time and it seems to have a few posters that really like it.  I used the optical for both my Bifrost and UD-301, don't like dealing with drivers for the USB, too many issues and possible conflicts with other drivers. 
 
For playing games I use a HD-700 out of a Teac AH-01 (its below the lower right edge of the TV) or a small Sony 5.1 amp (can't see under the desk) and 5 speaker / sub setup, see pic below:
 

 
Center channel is missing in this picture, just moved the blueray player up from under the table, can also see old m/m stack on the computer.  If gaming is more important then HD-700 is easier to drive than the HD-650 but see that you don't like too much treble it might be a bad choice.
 
My suggestion, keep the HD-650 and save for now, I was able to live with my HE-400 and X1 out of my computer for a few months before having enough funds to update my DAC and amp

 

[ButtUglyJeff]

  so do you guys think the emotiva dc-1 will be good enough for me considering i cant spend more money than that? when ya have a lot of money it's easy to look down on others with less and ask "why can't you just save up for a thousand dollar setup??" but there are other things i have to buy with the money i have, like food.
 
otherwise should i return the 650hd and get something else? what else would be good for a lower budget? cus i didnt like the sharpness of the 598hd hurt my ears, and i hear beyerdynamic sets are more harsh....what should i get instead of my 650hd if i cant afford those high end gear? was looking at the fidelio x2, but the qc stuff is so effed up to get a good pair right now...what else can i do?

 
There is 650 owner here somewhere that uses that combo quite happily.  Plus, the DC-1 can be a stand alone DAC for a future amp.  If you so desire...

 

[raybone0566]

so do you guys think the emotiva dc-1 will be good enough for me considering i cant spend more money than that? when ya have a lot of money it's easy to look down on others with less and ask "why can't you just save up for a thousand dollar setup??" but there are other things i have to buy with the money i have, like food.

Why don't you just save up until you can afford something nice. Save up say 500.00 and you have a real nice schiit stack. I don't think anyone here is looking down on anyone. Considering your budget, the 650's may not have been your best choice.

 

[castleofargh]

The benefits of a powerful amp is obvious my friend the HD650's are 300 ohm headphones. You may be getting volume. But the 650's also need a fair amount of power to sound amazingly good! I'm using a little dot amp with 6H30N power tubes (500Mw per channel). The HD650's have a maximum input of 500Mw per channel. The bass is going to be muddy. The soundstage is going to be small, and these headphones are going to sound mediocre without proper amplification! High impedance headphones do very well with a tube amplifier (OTL type amp). I hope this helps you put a little the higher the power output at 300 ohm's, the better they will sound my friend

 
the "more power is better" is a complete fallacy. how do you push more power into a headphone without increasing the loudness? simple, you don't.
I'm not against some headroom for power, be it in case we want one day to go louder, or for some other ideas that it's needed, like fear of sub optimal power supply to the amp or other fears more or less rational. but there clearly is a limit to that even for a paranoid audiophile(pleonasm?

).
 
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD650.pdf   you can read for that one hd650 that the power needed to reach 90db@1khz is 0.13mw. that's actually measured value, not random specs from manufacturer.
so for that one headphone (mine measured closer to 300ohm@1khz and needs a tad more power), your 500mW example if they were to be used, would get the hd650 to be 125.7db loud!!!!!!!!!!  that is the only way to make use of 500mW with the hd650. and may I suggest that at this point the problem isn't muddy bass and small soundstage? 

if you listen at a quieter loudness, then less power goes through the headphone making your point irrelevant and false. and that's it. you clearly misunderstand something and you might want to read about the fundamental laws of electricity before you decide to "help" me again.
 
to sum it up, it looks like you tried a few amps, you found that the ones with more power happened to sound better and jumped to conclusion from that one possible correlation without a care for the hundreds of other differences in the various amps that might be responsible for the sound difference. it's nice, and it sure is simple. but true, it isn't. you do need to get enough power from the amp for a given headphone at a given loudness, and less than enough is bad. no arguing about that. but more is just not used. it's like having a 2000W PSU for a computer than will at best use 800W when everything is running at the same time. you will effectively use 800W max and the PSU will provide exactly that.

 

[Darien]

Why don't you just save up until you can afford something nice. Save up say 500.00 and you have a real nice schiit stack. I don't think anyone here is looking down on anyone. Considering your budget, the 650's may not have been your best choice.

yeah i was thinking maybe if I got Modi 2 uber + asgard 2 would that be good enough? or is that not a good idea since the modi is smaller than the asgard and doesn't sit evenly on top? so if you go asgard do u have to get bitfrost?  cus then it becomes 648$+
 
what other headphones do you recommend besides 650hd thats cheaper but still good enough sound to hear singers swallow?
 
maybe i can go step by step and get the asgard 2 after i finish paying off the 650hd and connect it to my e10k, and after i pay off the asgard i can get the modi 2 uber as a dac.

 

[donlin]

Why don't you just save up until you can afford something nice. Save up say 500.00 and you have a real nice schiit stack. I don't think anyone here is looking down on anyone. Considering your budget, the 650's may not have been your best choice.

Well said.  The choice between food and a better amp is obvious, but you have to remember that this site is for enthusiasts who place a high priority on quality.

 

[DavidA]

  yeah i was thinking maybe if I got Modi 2 uber + asgard 2 would that be good enough? or is that not a good idea since the modi is smaller than the asgard and doesn't sit evenly on top? so if you go asgard do u have to get bitfrost?  cus then it becomes 648$+
 
what other headphones do you recommend besides 650hd thats cheaper but still good enough sound to hear singers swallow?
 
maybe i can go step by step and get the asgard 2 after i finish paying off the 650hd and connect it to my e10k, and after i pay off the asgard i can get the modi 2 uber as a dac.

Don't worry about the size, I've used my modi2uber with my Asgard2, combination is just a little on the bright side, with HD-650 should be fine, with HD-700 or DT-990 not so good.
 
See if you can try a K7XX or if you are feeling a little DIY I would suggest building a SennGrado, total cost around $150 to $200 depending on the wood cups and headband you use.

 

[raybone0566]

yeah i was thinking maybe if I got Modi 2 uber + asgard 2 would that be good enough? or is that not a good idea since the modi is smaller than the asgard and doesn't sit evenly on top? so if you go asgard do u have to get bitfrost?  cus then it becomes 648$+

what other headphones do you recommend besides 650hd thats cheaper but still good enough sound to hear singers swallow?

maybe i can go step by step and get the asgard 2 after i finish paying off the 650hd and connect it to my e10k, and after i pay off the asgard i can get the modi 2 uber as a dac.

If you can swing the schiit stack and use the e10k temporarily I'd stay with the 650's. But I'd either go with the val2 (169.00), or vahalla2(349.00), rather than the asgard2. Those amps have better synergy with the 650 than the Asgard2. Vali2 has been getting heavy praise here & on other forums. I had the asgard2 and just never warm up to it. Vahalla2 may be a bit more than your looking to spend but is sublime with 650's. But don't rush and grab something just because you can afford it at that moment. I've done that a few times and I can tell you none of those pieces are in my system now.

 

[spiderking31]

VERY...VERY SIMPLE....you turn the volume down! You'll need to turn the volume down more. You can get sufficient volume at 40% on the volume dial, as you would at 60-70% on a lower power tube. Does that make any sense?!?!

 

[Darien]

If you can swing the schiit stack and use the e10k temporarily I'd stay with the 650's. But I'd either go with the val2 (169.00), or vahalla2(349.00), rather than the asgard2. Those amps have better synergy with the 650 than the Asgard2. Vali2 has been getting heavy praise here & on other forums. I had the asgard2 and just never warm up to it. Vahalla2 may be a bit more than your looking to spend but is sublime with 650's. But don't rush and grab something just because you can afford it at that moment. I've done that a few times and I can tell you none of those pieces are in my system now.

cool, so maybe i can get the val2 and use it with my e10k dac, and alter upgrade to modi 2 uber? would that be better than the emotiva dc-1?
 
i heard though that tube amps sound too warm and 650hd is already warm, but i guess i will never really know until i hear it for myself. also i was worried because i hear that tube amps require more maintenance and you have to replace the tubes and stuff cus they break? but i guess it would be cool to see it glow and feel HIFI!!!

 

[DavidA]

  cool, so maybe i can get the val2 and use it with my e10k dac, and alter upgrade to modi 2 uber? would that be better than the emotiva dc-1?
 
i heard though that tube amps sound too warm and 650hd is already warm, but i guess i will never really know until i hear it for myself. also i was worried because i hear that tube amps require more maintenance and you have to replace the tubes and stuff cus they break? but i guess it would be cool to see it glow and feel HIFI!!!

Not all tube amps are warm and then it also comes down to tubes in use.  Many have said and I agree that the pairing of the HD-650 and BH Crack is one of the best.
 
To me the WA7d was a cold sounding hybrid but it had more to do with the DAC section I think.
 
As for more maintenance, yes tubes don't last for ever but an average of 5000 hours is fairly long and if you find a good cheap tube you can always stock up.

 

[ktm]

The biggest advantage of a tube amp is the ability to fine tune with different tubes.
The down side is it generates heat and needs more attention than SS.
My 50 WPC tube stereo amp cooked me right out of the room in the summertime.
I went from tube back to a good SS unit, and I really don't miss the tube sound
(still have a tube preamp). My current HP amp is tube, but really it comes down to
picking out a quality amp that sounds good to you. TUBE or SS. Get to a meet or
visit other head-fi members and listen to some gear. My idea of good sound
may not be your idea of good sound. There are SS amps that sound great with
hd-650.

 

[disastermouse]

if it goes loud enough and doesn't clip, then at that given loudness it has enough voltage and current and thus, power.
there are plenty of reason why a given amp might not perform or simply sound as nice as another amp, but the "not enough power" argument is really getting old. it's coming up every 5 pages or so and half the time the device actually has enough power for normal listening. 
and the sad thing is that you can read all about how a pono "can" drive the hd650 well when balanced (2V max), but then in here even an O2 will be debated as not having enough power(about 5V max into 300ohm). that's really where you realize how subjective opinions aren't the most reliable thing to argue about power needs. :rolleyes:  


yes my tablet doesn't sound amazing directly into the hd650, it's real and there really is no need to be an expert to notice that the sound sucks.  but power isn't the cause so let's stop throwing it in as the go to excuse anytime we want to say that one source sounds better. my tablet has enough current and voltage into 300ohm to drive the headphone louder than I ask for. that's not the problem. and it's probably not with the E10K at normal listening levels.

The O2 was a hideous amplifier for both my HD650 and HE-500. It's lying in a junk drawer somewhere and if I never see it again, I'll be grateful.

 

[disastermouse]

Amp-wise, both a Magni and the new Polaris have worked well for the HD650. The Polaris offers lots of settings to help tune the sound, though obviously not as much as an Ember or other easily rollable tube amp. The Polaris is magical with my HE-500. I haven't put in much time with it with my HD650s yet.

 

[Darien]

The O2 was a hideous amplifier for both my HD650 and HE-500. It's lying in a junk drawer somewhere and if I never see it again, I'll be grateful.

what did you not like about the o2? I thought the o2+ODAC was considered the holy grail for ~$300.