[62ohm]

   
OK, thanks for that. It's amazing how widely opinions vary on the HD-700s, especially from 650 owners (past or present). I really want a detail can with a big sound stage for low-volume listening of classical strings; I'm just not spending $1,500.00 US on the HD-800. I've thought about adding the Beyer T1, but I've never had the opportunity to audition a pair, unlike the 800s and 700s.

 
You may want to ask @Brooko about that, he has the T1, had the HD700 and have reviewed the HD800 and HD650.

 

[JamieMcC]

   
OK, thanks for that. It's amazing how widely opinions vary on the HD-700s, especially from 650 owners (past or present). I really want a detail can with a big sound stage for low-volume listening of classical strings; I'm just not spending $1,500.00 US on the HD-800. I've thought about adding the Beyer T1, but I've never had the opportunity to audition a pair, unlike the 800s and 700s.

 
The T1 will certainly fit your requirements and for the discounted price they can be found at now I think they offer outstanding value. If you are looking for that extra level of refinement and nuance within the recordings while still retaining some warmth, soul and musicality the T1 can deliver it.
 
The HD650 and I love mine dearly are out classed by the T1's ability when it comes to resolving, separation, sound staging placement, tonal texturing. They are sublime with acoustic arrangements you will get the twang and reverb as the player digs deep into the strings with nice texturing if it is on the recording and your system is capable of digging deep. 
 
The only cravat I would offer is they can be amp picky and though they can sound satisfying on a budget amp for under £100 they scale amazingly well and will benefit considerably from paring with amps higher up the food change.
 
Amp them poorly and they will sound cold, lifeless and the sibilance will make you cringe!
 
Get it right and your in or a sublime listening experience. Two years on with mine and they regularly still surprise me with their ability.

 

[sonicbadger]

Where can the currently discounted price on the Beyerdynamic T1 be found?

 

[pietcux]

Listening to Jose Carreras on the HD700 on low volume right now. You will love it. I agree that the T1 is very good for instrumental, but that is only due to pronouncing the treble at large. That can suit you, can also be too much for you. The HD700 does not overdo that.
 And the violins are great without fatigue.

 

[DDDamian]

Can anyone comment on which is better "resolving" between the HD-800 and T1? Thinking of the overtones of acoustic guitar or maybe the raspiness of any reed instrument. Really plucking out the subtleties....

 

[Koolpep]

   
Which tubes?

 
Mullard 6080 and RCA USA JRC-5814A
 
I think. Have to check the RCA if that is indeed the one currently in.
 
Cheers,
K

 

[JamieMcC]

  Can anyone comment on which is better "resolving" between the HD-800 and T1? Thinking of the overtones of acoustic guitar or maybe the raspiness of any reed instrument. Really plucking out the subtleties....

T1 do subtleties with aplomb and its one of the things which I find so addictive about them the vocal nuance's they resolve can take my breath away at times. With a reed instrument you might get the hollow woodiness textural clues when the breath reverberates through the instrument and I hear very little of this kind of texturing with the HD650.  One of my favourite things about the T1 is how cohesive it is being able to hear the music as a whole yet still be able to focus in and concentrate on individual areas. Things like the a sense of density of wooden blocks when hit and even separating out the shimmering cymbals round a tambourine when its jingled so you its sounds like the three or four sets that are actually on a tambourine.  Backing vocalists get distinct space  and vocal separation what might sound like one or two on theHD650 might separate into be three or four on the T1.  Details that you might find hard to make out or even miss on the HD650 are much clearer and can  often have micro details of their own.

 

[DDDamian]

 
T1 do subtleties with aplomb and its one of the things which I find so addictive about them the vocal nuance's they resolve can take my breath away at times. With a reed instrument you might get the hollow woodiness textural clues when the breath reverberates through the instrument and I hear very little of this kind of texturing with the HD650.  One of my favourite things about the T1 is how cohesive it is being able to hear the music as a whole yet still be able to focus in and concentrate on individual areas. Things like the a sense of density of wooden blocks when hit and even separating out the shimmering cymbals round a tambourine when its jingled so you its sounds like the three or four sets that are actually on a tambourine.  Backing vocalists get distinct space  and vocal separation what might sound like one or two on theHD650 might separate into be three or four on the T1.  Details that you might find hard to make out or even miss on the HD650 are much clearer and can  often have micro details of their own.

Brilliant descriptions Jamie - exactly what I am looking for. I love these 650's and the signature is perfect for the laid-back or long listening sessions. I'm looking next for a pair that have that 'sit-up-and-notice" effect when exceptionally clear recordings just raise hairs. Almost the opposite of the 650's sometimes.
 
I'm a huge fan of acoustic guitar and a great songwriter (Neil Young, Bob Dylan, some Dave Matthews as examples) and while the 650's present vocals beautifully they don't always resolve strings well. A gentlemen here who I purchased my S.E.X. amp from has a pair of T1's for sale, and I'm pretty tempted.....
 
From what I've read the T1's pull it off while still keeping the musicality over the more clinical HD-800. I do suffer a bit of fatigue from overly bright phones though - would the T1's need a bit of EQ in that regard?

 

[Krutsch]

   
The T1 will certainly fit your requirements and for the discounted price they can be found at now I think they offer outstanding value. If you are looking for that extra level of refinement and nuance within the recordings while still retaining some warmth, soul and musicality the T1 can deliver it.
 
The HD650 and I love mine dearly are out classed by the T1's ability when it comes to resolving, separation, sound staging placement, tonal texturing. They are sublime with acoustic arrangements you will get the twang and reverb as the player digs deep into the strings with nice texturing if it is on the recording and your system is capable of digging deep. 
 
The only cravat I would offer is they can be amp picky and though they can sound satisfying on a budget amp for under £100 they scale amazingly well and will benefit considerably from paring with amps higher up the food change.
 
Amp them poorly and they will sound cold, lifeless and the sibilance will make you cringe!
 
Get it right and your in or a sublime listening experience. Two years on with mine and they regularly still surprise me with their ability.

 
Thanks for the tip... I've read nothing but good things about the T1 and I think they would go well with my amp (I've read that the T1s are an ultimate pairing with an OTL).
 
As odd as this may sound, I'm not really looking for "a better 650" for music that the 650 excels with (IMO: vocals, guitar rock, ambient/electronic). I am hoping for a different signature that will work well with some types of classical to which I frequently listen.
 
I feel like I've been agonizing over this way too long... 

 

 

[Krutsch]

 
Listening to Jose Carreras on the HD700 on low volume right now. You will love it. I agree that the T1 is very good for instrumental, but that is only due to pronouncing the treble at large. That can suit you, can also be too much for you. The HD700 does not overdo that.
 And the violins are great without fatigue.

 
I've been reading both the Beyer T1 and the HD-700 threads; my impressions match what you've written, but I don't have first-hand experience.
 
Thanks for your feedback and comments.

 

[mikoss]

Hmm, there are a pair of T1's being sold locally second hand. You guys are making me consider them as well... both of my friends use them with their Woo WA2 OTL amp and love them. Since it's my go to amp for the 650's... I'm really considering them. I just don't know if I could live with another pair of headphones. I feel like the 650's are sounding as good as they ever will, but I am a bit of a sucker for more micro details. Hmmmmm.

 

[DDDamian]

  Hmm, there are a pair of T1's being sold locally second hand. You guys are making me consider them as well... both of my friends use them with their Woo WA2 OTL amp and love them. Since it's my go to amp for the 650's... I'm really considering them. I just don't know if I could live with another pair of headphones. I feel like the 650's are sounding as good as they ever will, but I am a bit of a sucker for more micro details. Hmmmmm.

Heh it's like cheating lol. But yeah - I'm siding towards a pair as a compliment to all I love about the 650's too

 

[lawrecedent]

OK, thanks for that. It's amazing how widely opinions vary on the HD-700s, especially from 650 owners (past or present). I really want a detail can with a big sound stage for low-volume listening of classical strings; I'm just not spending $1,500.00 US on the HD-800. I've thought about adding the Beyer T1, but I've never had the opportunity to audition a pair, unlike the 800s and 700s.

From my short experience of the HD700'S I think classical at low volumes would be the ideal situation for these headphones. The soundstage is pretty wide and the details in the upper treble range would suit strings perfectly. Sadly I wanted more bass clout and turned them up too loud to compensate which made the treble far too hot for my tastes.

 

[jlucas]

I have both 650s and T1s.  Love them both.   You won't be disappointed in the T1s.

 

[Krutsch]

From my short experience of the HD700'S I think classical at low volumes would be the ideal situation for these headphones. The soundstage is pretty wide and the details in the upper treble range would suit strings perfectly. Sadly I wanted more bass clout and turned them up too loud to compensate which made the treble far too hot for my tastes.

 
Well, I will soon find out. BestBuy has them on sale (matching the lowest price I've ever seen them on-line), so I bought a pair.
 
Let's see... Scotch in glass... check; Julia Fischer - Sarasate in Audirvana+ ... check; daughter and cats asleep... check; tubes warming up... check; HD-700s plugged in... check;
 
Let the flavor-of-the-moment euphoria begin