[JamieMcC]

Vinyl in some respects is just like digital and the quality of recording can vary considerably high quality mixing and mastering is essential to have good results these are often the sort after pressings. Lots of the LP's I enjoy are ok but nothing special but the difference between them and album that been skilfully mastered and produced is sort of like going from MP3 128kbps to high rez lossless playback. 
 
You can still find some good examples of such LP's for relatively small change such as Janis Ian 1975 Between the lines Album which won a Grammy award for best engineered album and another for album of the year. It was a favourite in the hifi shops for demoing high end gear (so I am told, it was a bit before my time). However it is a handy example of a very nice pressing.
 
Wiki does a nice list of past Grammy Awards for Best Engineered Albums, many can be picked up for pocket change.

 

[Koukol]

 

Sorry for continuing to derail this thread

But, this original press hoarding has just as much about collecting as it does quality...no? No, it's about sound quality, at least with serious audio/music folks
A vinyl enthusiast would be a fool to hoard  a record made in the 80's when they squished too many tracks on it and recycled cheap vinyl for sound quality alone. I'm not sure how you can speak so confidently, given the scope of the discussion. Recycled vinyl happened for a relatively short period in the early/mid-70s. Many '80s pressings sound fantastic.
Of course the original pressing is desired for certain years but as I said the quality went down as the companies got greedy There's definitely a variance between pressings
If you're also telling me any of those old pressing would sound better than a new 180g Virgin vinyl of the same album split into two different discs played at 45 RPM...I don't believe it. I misread the comment, hence the edit. Yes, many original pressings sound better than the reissues, regardless of their pedigree. Tapes deteriorate over time, especially when stored improperly

BTW~another vinyl flaw...only the third track gets the royal treatment as the rest do not get the stylus perfectly centered. In theory, kinda. In practice, no. The two most commonly used alignment geometries use 2 points. LPs have many flaws; no one is saying otherwise. They just happen to sound better than most commonly available media. It does require an investment and some knowledge
This is why most albums put their hit (or best) song on the third track and some turntable manufacturers use the horizontal track system (I don't know the technical term) that has the cartridge slide along giving every track the perfect position.
You're talking about a linear/tangential tracking arm. Again, there's a difference between a hypothesis and actual practice

Reply in bold.

Edit: text

Ok, I got the timeline wrong...it's the mid to late 70's when releases started to suck if you say so.
And it's not just the quality of vinyl but the packing of extra songs making the grooves smaller.
 
"many original pressings sound better than the reissues, regardless of their pedigree. Tapes deteriorate over time, especially when stored improperly
OK, I forgot about tape deterioration... BUT... it was said (or implied) that ALL original pressings are better not the word MANY you just used.
 
They just happen to sound better than most commonly available media.
 
I respectfully disagree as no matter how well you keep a record you'll hear the odd pop and scratches during the silence between tracks with headphone listening.
I've come across a lot of vinyl enthusiast who love these unmusical sounds...(pure nostalgia imo)
Many Artists such as Neil Young believe vinyl USE to be the best option but no more...digital is.
 
 
 
In the end It's when someone says flat out that vinyl sounds better than CDs (or more importantly digital) that's a blanket statement that's wrong.

 

[Shaffer]

[...]

I respectfully disagree as no matter how well you keep a record you'll hear the odd pop and scratches during the silence between tracks with headphone listening.

So what? Seriously. A little surface noise between tracks is such a big deal? Yes, it's more annoying with headphones, especially those that emphasize the factor, which is why one would choose a system that doesn't do that. What would be such a thing? I'd suggest a V200 or a M-Stage, for those with a smaller budget, with HD650 or even better K612. I'm not implying that a K612 is a better headphone. It's not, but it would serve the purpose for someone very sensitive to surface noise.

[...]In the end It's when someone says flat out that vinyl sounds better than CDs (or more importantly digital) that's a blanket statement that's wrong.

I realize that you believe this and that's due to not ever hearing a good analog-based system. I own ~6,000LPs, ~2500CDs and would love to give you a demo. If you're in Ontario, it may not be that long of a drive. You can bring your turntable along - remove plater and counterweight, and twist-tie the arm - and we'll get it going, as well. Bring some of your records, too. We can clean them, if needed, and you can see if you like the sound.

 

[Koukol]

Shaffer, this will be my last reply as I feel bad for derailing this thread for others not interested
 
You said "So what? Seriously" about the noise vinyl makes.
Are YOU serious?
 
I find this baffling coming from what I think is an Audiophile.
When you put on a record of some guy playing and singing an acoustic guitar are you not like me and want it to sound like the guy is right there playing it live?
That added noise takes that illusion away for me.
I guess vinyl enthusiasts have learned to ignore this major flaw yet call out other formats for lesser evils.
 
About 15 years ago I borrowed my brothers $1000.00 Nitty Griity Record Vacuum Washer (he owns a Linn Sondek) and used it on my most of my collection yet many still crackle and pop.
I'm sorry but I'm real skeptical a set-up will get rid of this with headphone listening.
 
In the early 80's I Imported the first Edition of Joy Divisions first record Unknown Pleasures when the album was first released and the crap they put on the plastic to keep it from sticking to the press is STILL on it after many attempts to clean it.
I started thinking back then that maybe the noise it produced was intentionally there on purpose until I heard the CD about ten years later. (you know the early 80's was a very experimental period for Rock )
 
I'm beginning to think vinyl collecting is more of a hobby where having fun setting up a dope turntable system and hunting for treasured first pressing is more slightly more important than the music.
You guys are always showing off your kills...I'm mean collection.
 
I'm real curious on what you invested on this turntable system of yours (isolation table and all)
 
 
Anyways, I hope this remained friendly as it is not my desire to make enemies here but to discuss the pros and cons of music equipment.
 
BTW~thanks for the invite.
Cheers!

 

[Shaffer]

Shaffer, this will be my last reply as I feel bad for derailing this thread for others not interested

You said "So what? Seriously" about the noise vinyl makes.
Are YOU serious?

I find this baffling coming from what I think is an Audiophile.
When you put on a record of some guy playing and singing an acoustic guitar are you not like me and want it to sound like the guy is right there playing it live?
That added noise takes that illusion away for me.
I guess vinyl enthusiasts have learned to ignore this major flaw yet call out other formats for lesser evils. Have you ever been to a live show? I ask, because folks are constantly coughing, making noise, talking, depending on venue glasses are clanking? And all this is better than a little surface noise between tracks? C'mon.

About 15 years ago I borrowed my brothers $1000.00 Nitty Griity Record Vacuum Washer (he owns a Linn Sondek) and used it on my most of my collection yet many still crackle and pop.
I'm sorry but I'm real skeptical a set-up will get rid of this with headphone listening. If a record is beat, no amount of cleaning can fix it

In the early 80's I Imported the first Edition of Joy Divisions first record Unknown Pleasures when the album was first released and the crap they put on the plastic to keep it from sticking to the press is STILL on it after many attempts to clean it. I'm sorry this happened to you; it happened to me once, too. FWIW, I own an original US pressing.
I started thinking back then that maybe the noise it produced was intentionally there on purpose until I heard the CD about ten years later. (you know the early 80's was a very experimental period for Rock ) If you were listening to Joy Division, we were definitely on the same page back then.

I'm beginning to think vinyl collecting is more of a hobby where having fun setting up a dope turntable system and hunting for treasured first pressing is more slightly more important than the music.
You guys are always showing off your kills...I'm mean collection. It took almost 40 years to curate mine. I don't hunt for LPs. I buy them if I want them. No garage sales, no thrift stores, no beat records. To be frank, lately I've mostly been buying CDs. They're just so inexpensive; makes it easy to check out a new piece of music. As for my own collection, I have essentially all I want, sans a number of new releases.

I'm real curious on what you invested on this turntable system of yours (isolation table and all) Retail, around $4.5K as it sits right now. There's no isolation table, no issues with footfalls. I had a more elaborate system before this one and downsized quite a bit several years ago.


Anyways, I hope this remained friendly as it is not my desire to make enemies here but to discuss the pros and cons of music equipment. Of course.

BTW~thanks for the invite.
Cheers! My pleasure. I hope you take me up on it.

 

[Koukol]

OK...back to our regular programming.

 

[Eee Pee]

Vinyl and 650s all day!
 

 

[mbusby]

I've listened to a lot of formats, including reel-to-reel, since the 50's. I could care less if some one listens to vinyl or not. I have my own opinions which I will keep to myself since this appears to be a thread about the HD 650.

 

[Koukol]

   I could care less if some one listens to vinyl or not.

Are you suggesting I care about what people use?

 

[UNOE]

Well Amazon just had price drop to $290 so tempting.

 

[Soundsgoodtome]

  Well Amazon just had price drop to $290 so tempting.

That is an amazing price, if you're on the fence I say go for it.

 

[Koukol]

 

  Well Amazon just had price drop to $290 so tempting.

That is an amazing price, if you're on the fence I say go for it.

Absolutely.
If you don't like them you could probably get that back by selling them.

 

[UNOE]

I'm going to CanJam in a few weeks and so I can try a few different headphones.  I think that 600 might be better for me but I'm not sure.

 

[DavidA]

  Well Amazon just had price drop to $290 so tempting.

Just ordered mine, should be here on Wed or Thur, living in Hawaii everything takes longer to get here.  I couldn't find anyone I know that has a HD-650 that I could listen to so decided to get one just to hear what everyone is taking about.  I already have a SRH-1840 which many say sound similar but I got the SRH-1840 for $380 new when the HD-650 was $359 and most on the 1840 thread said at the same price they would get the 1840.  The other reason for getting the HD-650 is I wanted to build the bottle head crack.

 

[cuiter23]

Well Amazon just had price drop to $290 so tempting.

holy thats dirt cheap! here in Canada it costs 520 + tax.