Sennheiser HD650 boring? Any other reccomendations?
Feb 13, 2012 at 3:56 PM Post #31 of 52
i recently got the hd650s after going from ath-m50, dt770 pro, and ultrasone pro 900s.
 
i listen to electronic / hiphop / post/indie rock. i listen to the hd650s at home. when i go to work, i take the pro 900s. i almost dont even want to. after listening to the hd650s i realized that nearly every headphone i have or have heard is far too sibilant for my ears. what i thought was amazing before is just painful now.
 
they definitely aren't "in your face" or as "exciting" as the pro 900s, but the difference is that i can actually enjoy listening to music instead of having the volume so low i may as well be using them for ear warmers.
 
Feb 13, 2012 at 4:05 PM Post #33 of 52


Quote:
I have a cambridge audio Dacmagic and a NAD 315bee integrated amp (both of these are supposedly smooth sounding)... What do you suggest for a neutral phone with good bass and minimal harsh treble? I cannot afford the flagship models atm
 

 
You can give the DT880 600 ohm a try, but it is not ideal with your current amp. The HD600 is the obvious other choice for a neutral, good bass (bit more quantity than DT880), non-sibilant experience.
 
The DT880 600 ohm needs tons of power and an amp that can reign in the treble peaks (such as the aforementioned OTL tube amps) before I would call it completely non-sibilant. It has great potential and is cheaper than the HD600, but you would probably want a different amp before using it. The bass may be too little for your liking, as it is pretty darn close to being neutral, but the quality is there. Once again, a powerful amp is a must for this headphone. I recommend a listen before investing if at all possible.
 
 
 
Feb 13, 2012 at 4:09 PM Post #34 of 52


Quote:
Then keep the DAC and buy a better amplifier... I was trying to free you up some money.



Hmmm but the amplifier is very good for the money and I like the sound of it.... My personal opinion is that the biggest change in sound quality comes from speakers and headphones.... I need the amp for my external speakers also and am not interest in a headphone amp.... The headphone socket on NAD amps is generally regarded as one of the best as is the general quality of NAD amps.... I am not sure how buying a new amp AND new headphones is saving me money?
 
I quite like my amp and dac atm and I am looking for some new headphones as they have the most obvious effect on sound quality.
 
Feb 13, 2012 at 4:26 PM Post #35 of 52
Quote:
Hmmm but the amplifier is very good for the money and I like the sound of it.... My personal opinion is that the biggest change in sound quality comes from speakers and headphones.... I need the amp for my external speakers also and am not interest in a headphone amp.... The headphone socket on NAD amps is generally regarded as one of the best as is the general quality of NAD amps.... I am not sure how buying a new amp AND new headphones is saving me money?
 
I quite like my amp and dac atm and I am looking for some new headphones as they have the most obvious effect on sound quality.


I'm saying the $400 Dacmagic will sound the same as a $50 soundcard, thus selling one to buy the other would free up some money. As I said they're all built on the same op-amp circuit, match the little chips and they'll sound the same. You won't start to hear a difference in sound quality until you move up to fully discrete DACs like the PS Audio DLIII or W4S DAC etc. Thus you have about $400 tied up in equipment that makes zero difference to your listening experience.
 
Whether you like your amplifier or not it's what's giving your headphones the piercing highs, you can remedy this with a warmer dedicated headphone amp. The biggest change in sound quality comes from both the amp and source, the biggest change in sound signature will come from the headphones. What people tend to do is find the headphone they like and tailor it's sound through improving the rest of the audio chain. Headphone synergy with amps is important, it will make or break your listening experience and you're glossing over it.
 
If you don't really care for speed and impact for your electronic music go with the HD600 or HD650, they are indeed close to neutral but I usually recommend these to people for classic rock and smooth jazz...
 
Feb 13, 2012 at 4:56 PM Post #36 of 52
Why do a lot of people and reviews say that the dacmagic is good then? Are they just all making it up? Also the Denons are well known for sibilance and using my Shure IEM's I dont notice hardly any sibilance.... Sibilance is mainly from bad recordings, The sibilance is still there with the Shures but it is not annoying or peircing at all... Seems to be very dependant on the quality of the recording / bitrate of the audio to me... With good, high bitrate recordings there is almost no sibilance.
 
I use my Dac for TV and PC use.... Tbh it is a nice little unit and the selling price is £150 on ebay..... By the time I have bought a sound card that will be like £20 saved (xonar STX £130) and I wont be able to plug my TV into the DAC either.... I agree that Dacs are subtle but I dont think saying they are identical to a £50 sound card is true tbh. Maybe similar to a Xonar STX or similar but as I said a Xonar will cost me almost the same and I wont be able to use my TV through it...
 
Feb 13, 2012 at 5:04 PM Post #37 of 52


Quote:
I'm saying the $400 Dacmagic will sound the same as a $50 soundcard, thus selling one to buy the other would free up some money. As I said they're all built on the same op-amp circuit, match the little chips and they'll sound the same. You won't start to hear a difference in sound quality until you move up to fully discrete DACs like the PS Audio DLIII or W4S DAC etc. Thus you have about $400 tied up in equipment that makes zero difference to your listening experience.
 
Whether you like your amplifier or not it's what's giving your headphones the piercing highs, you can remedy this with a warmer dedicated headphone amp. The biggest change in sound quality comes from both the amp and source, the biggest change in sound signature will come from the headphones. What people tend to do is find the headphone they like and tailor it's sound through improving the rest of the audio chain. Headphone synergy with amps is important, it will make or break your listening experience and you're glossing over it.
 
If you don't really care for speed and impact for your electronic music go with the HD600 or HD650, they are indeed close to neutral but I usually recommend these to people for classic rock and smooth jazz...


 
You really think amps/dacs sounds the same just because they have the same op-amps? Just a question..not trying to start a fight
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If this was true, we'd all be using an E9 since they share the same op-amps as the Matrix M-Stage and Headroom Micro Amp. All of them sound completely different. I'm not yet convinced any DAC will sound the same just because of the same chips. I think this is pretty common knowledge now. Maybe some reviewers try to make the differences larger than they really are. Even DACs with the same chipset measure (and sound) completely different usually.
 
I just can't agree that a $400 DAC would sound the same as a cheap soundcard. Maybe I missed something here. Maybe you've heard both and this is why you say this. I'm sure it's possible.
 
Well, at least I agree with your last part. I've actually found some DACs to be more of an improvement than switching amps. Some of my headphones don't benefit at all from amp upgrades (like my HD-598).
My HD-650 did seem to sound different with every single amp.
 
Feb 13, 2012 at 5:15 PM Post #38 of 52
Whilst I am sure that buying a high end dac and amp will improve the sound quality over what I currently have.... I really dont have the money to upgrade that stuff at the moment and for the money I am happy with what I have for now....
 
Generally the amp and dac I own are not regarded as harsh, bright or sibilant compared to other similar priced products. Also I use the dac for multiple inputs so a soundcard wouldnt really help, would end up costing marginally less then what I already have for similar sound quality and wouldnt have multiple inputs for Tv etc. Also selling the amp is not an option as I use the amp for my external Hifi speakers as well..... Maybe in the future I will buy a full on dedicated headphone setup with a tube amp but not right now.
 
So basically I am looking for some headphones that will go well with my current equipment at the moment and maybe in the future I will by better amp and dac.....
 
Feb 13, 2012 at 5:19 PM Post #39 of 52


Quote:
Why do a lot of people and reviews say that the dacmagic is good then? Are they just all making it up?
 
.....


Google the phrase "op amp myths" and click the first link.  Read in particular the section addressing the myth that "discrete is better."  This will give you a bit more info to consider in assessing how much stock you want to place in Graphicism's assertions.
 
Outside of high power speaker amplifiers, odds are that you are not gaining improved sonics (at least to the extent that they are measurable) through discrete designs.
 
 
Feb 13, 2012 at 6:40 PM Post #41 of 52


Quote:
Whilst I am sure that buying a high end dac and amp will improve the sound quality over what I currently have.... I really dont have the money to upgrade that stuff at the moment and for the money I am happy with what I have for now....
 
Generally the amp and dac I own are not regarded as harsh, bright or sibilant compared to other similar priced products. Also I use the dac for multiple inputs so a soundcard wouldnt really help, would end up costing marginally less then what I already have for similar sound quality and wouldnt have multiple inputs for Tv etc. Also selling the amp is not an option as I use the amp for my external Hifi speakers as well..... Maybe in the future I will buy a full on dedicated headphone setup with a tube amp but not right now.
 
So basically I am looking for some headphones that will go well with my current equipment at the moment and maybe in the future I will by better amp and dac.....


 
Don't be led astray. The responses on the first page of this thread have addressed your questions.
 
Feb 13, 2012 at 7:39 PM Post #43 of 52


Quote:
Whether you like your amplifier or not it's what's giving your headphones the piercing highs, you can remedy this with a warmer dedicated headphone amp.



If the most important issue is his sensitivity to piercing highs, I find the approach of 'amp first, headphone second' highly dubious. Perhaps that's not what your saying, but I just wanted to share my opinion, which is that the headphones will have an exponentially greater impact on the treble you will be hearing compared to the impact of an amp or DAC and that it seems rather absurd to argue otherwise.

and on to the boring thing...

Every term out there in audiophileland has its doppelganger. One description meant as praise can just as easily be turned inside-out and used to tear the same thing down. Some people will crucify the HD650s as 'boring', while others will sing it the highest praise as 'balanced'. Many love the D2Ks for their 'excitement', while others label them 'colored'. Some say the HD650s are 'veiled', while others say its 'neutral'. Etc, etc. When asking 'are the HD650s boring' you are only going to receive subjective answers because the question itself is subjective, so the only real solution you can get will be to listen to the headphones and decide for yourself.

I come from the opposite direction of the TS; I had the HD-650s and then years later added the D2Ks. I believe that both are absolutely great headphones, each with their own set of strengths and weakness. After reading what nicholars has said about the D2Ks and about what he is looking for in a new pair of cans, I think that HD650s could very well be an absolute perfect match.

Personally, I don't find the HD650s boring in the least. To me they sound incredibly well balanced and relatively transparent, making them the opposite of boring, incredibly engaging, since they offer me an excellent direct connection to the music. My music does not bore me, it excites me, thus the HD650s aren't boring in my book.

I think part of the 'boring' thing comes from some of the people who are really into audio equipment and find them boring because when they listen to music on their setup, along with the music, they want/need/expect to hear their equipment as well, and the transparency of the HD650 compared to other cans, the lack of listening fatigue, etc, doesn't give them much to point to and say, 'see, there's the 650s!!', thus it make for a very 'boring sound' in their eyes.

To me the whole 'boring' thing seem rather ridiculous in that it makes it sound like you are expecting to receive some sort of audio-goodness from your headphones beyond what is present in the music itself. The term 'boring' suggest a lack of presence, which is my mind seems more like a good thing than something to avoid. Do you listen to music in order to hear your headphones, or do you listen to your headphones in order to hear the music?
 
Feb 13, 2012 at 7:50 PM Post #44 of 52
Thanks for the excellent reply.... And thanks to most of the other posters for usefull replies...
 
I agree with what you say and I think I will give the HD650 a try.... By boring I meant lacking in bass impact and "PRAT" as people call it....and also energy electronic music.... But tbh from what I have been reading they sound like a nice, refined smooth sounding pair of headphones with no real faults and a LOT of possitive feedback.... Hopefully they will go well with my dac and amp.... Seems like I should just stop provaricating about it and give them a try... I just want to get it right this time because I cannot afford to keep buying and selling headphones! Out of interest how do the Audio technica ATH m50 compare? Are the HD650 in a different league in terms of sound quality?
 
Feb 13, 2012 at 8:22 PM Post #45 of 52


Quote:
Thanks for the excellent reply.... And thanks to most of the other posters for usefull replies...
 
I agree with what you say and I think I will give the HD650 a try.... By boring I meant lacking in bass impact and "PRAT" as people call it....and also energy electronic music.... But tbh from what I have been reading they sound like a nice, refined smooth sounding pair of headphones with no real faults and a LOT of possitive feedback.... Hopefully they will go well with my dac and amp.... Seems like I should just stop provaricating about it and give them a try... I just want to get it right this time because I cannot afford to keep buying and selling headphones! Out of interest how do the Audio technica ATH m50 compare? Are the HD650 in a different league in terms of sound quality?


 
I like the fact the M50 is built like a tank and it used to be good value at its lower price. I owned it at the same time as the Alessandro MS-1i and before the HD650. When both were an arms length away I always reached for the MS-1i. When I upgraded to the HD650 there was nothing about the M50 I missed. I won't say I found it "boring" (I dislike how that term is applied on these forums), just that the presentation was sterile and it failed to engage.
 

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