[nicholars]

But you just reccomended me a load of headphones which are all known for treble sibilance and harsh sound..... I already said that I found the Denon D2000 too sibilant and harsh... I also tried the HD 598 in a shop and tbh didnt like them at all although they werent out of a great source and were brand new....
 
 

 

[tdockweiler]

Quote:

But you just reccomended me a load of headphones which are all known for treble sibilance and harsh sound..... I already said that I found the Denon D2000 too sibilant and harsh... I also tried the HD 598 in a shop and tbh didnt like them at all although they werent out of a great source and were brand new....
 
 

How do you know until you try them with your own ears? Just because one random guy says they're harsh or fatiguing doesn't mean they are. There's even people out there who say the same thing about the the HD-650!
For me, the DT-880 and the Q701 don't even have remotely fatiguing or harsh treble. At all ever..unless you have bad tracks and want to change them to make them sound better than they really are. The HD-650 might take the edge off them, but I hate this idea.
 
The Q701's treble is very smooth, unlike the K701. I had both..The DT-880 also has less treble than the DT-990 and DT-770.
 
BTW if you don't like the HD-598 somewhat, I doubt you'd like the HD-650. If there's something you didn't like about the HD-598, it would give us a better idea if you'd like the HD-650 or not.

 

[juantendo8]

Quote:

Are people seriously suggesting him the HD-650 for electronic music and hip hop? I could understand classical and hip hop, but any kind of electronic music on the HD-650 would just make me sad..or fall asleep.
I do find the HD-650 incredibly boring with a lot of music. Sure I liked it, but only with specific music.
 
I've always preferred for electronic music a headphone with tons of detail, a decent amount of bass and a very clear sound. Yes, even a lot of treble (that isn't ear piercing). The HD-650 only meets one of those requirements.
 
Between the HD-598 and HD-650 I'd take the HD-598 for electronic music any day. Sure it has much less bass, but at least it won't bore you to death. It's mids are a little more forward than that of the HD-650, but no more "colored" than the HD-650 already is.
It won't suddenly change how a song sounds. The large soundstage of the HD-598 helps too. Despite what people say, I've found the HD-598 to have much more detail than the HD-650. Please don't give me the treble excuse..
 
I'd actually skip any of the Sennheisers for electronic music. For that I'd probably take the DT-880. The Q701 doesn't have tons of bass, but I'd easily take that for electronic music over the HD-650 any day.
Ambient music is especially impressive on the Q701.

He just came from Denons, so I think the lack of bass from the AKG's would be too huge of a departure. While the AKG and Beyers might be more more recommended for electronic music, his main issue was sibilance to begin with. I wouldn't feel right recommending a headphone that might end him up with the same problem he started with. Those phones don't have the rolled-off treble that he was looking for.
 
The HD-598 is a great headphone, but I don't see it as being sonically superior to any of the headphones listed, except perhaps in soundstage and gaming applications. It is a great choice at its price point however and is a good choice if you must listen unamped often. The HD600 is a superior phone for music IMO and probably fairs better with electronics, although it doesn't handle sibilance and bad recordings as well as its big brother.  

 

[nicholars]

Well put it this way :
 
I found the Denon D2000 to harsh sounding / metallic sounding and sibilant even with quite heavy EQ....
 
I found the Shures SRH 840 somewhat harsh sounding and bright although mainly just boring and analytical (they are pro monitors after all)
 
Grados were very harsh and fatiguing
 
I have some Shure SE215 which have rolled off treble and they dont annoy my ears at all....
 
Some people are irritated by treble some arent... It seems you are someone who is not... Literally the Denons physically hurt my ear drums... Like not mental irritation, actual physical pain from my ear drums....
 
This is difficult because everyone has different levels of tolerance and different opinions and really I just need to try some out but it is expensive to keep buying and selling headphones so I want to try and get it right this time...
 
I really like good bass response, no boomy please just good deep textured bass.... So I dont want anything much less than the Denon D2000 in terms of quantity....

 

[skeptic]

I think the HD650's are great headphones, and I do not find them boring at all.  That said - I do think you are going to notice that they have less sub-bass impact than your Denons.  As shown on the graph below, this perception will be further emphasized by the 650's midbass hump, which makes its sub-bass sound somewhat recessed by comparison.  
 
For this reason, I find that both my HD800's and DT880's do a better job of bringing out sub-bass than my HD650's.  However, from a big picture standpoint, I firmly believe the HD650's are better headphones than the 880's (250 ohm), at least to my ears, because: (i) the sound is more coherent; and (ii) they do not have the 880's dreaded small peak at 4khz (which is more problematic than peaks > ~5khz, because it is actually within the fundamental frequency range of several natural instruments). 
 
Hope this helps some!

 

 

[BadFish81]

This has actually been a very enlightening thread for me.  I'm still very much new to the premium-audio equipment world.  The Dennon AHD-2000's were my initial purchase.  While I've been very happy with them compared to my previous budget headsets, I listen to music nearly all day at work, I've been experiencing pretty extreme ear fatigue listening for more than a few hours on the Denons.  My untrained ears really didn't know why, I was assuming I needed a better DAC, or DAP, or something to that effect.  Mentioning the harsh highs though, I believe this is exactly what I'm experiencing.  It's funny because just as I was reading this thread, the song "A Method" by TV on the Radio came on my playlist; the song opens for the first 30 seconds or so with the singer aggressively tapping a cymbal he's holding in his arm, I didn't realize it at first but I was actually wincing.
 
I was ready to drop another $200 or so on Markl Mod upgrades for my Denons, along with a DAC, but now I'm thinking I should just invest in a different set of Cans myself... Unless someone thinks a premium DAC could possibly bring these shrill highs more into balance?
 
Quote:

The Denon do have a bit of a reputation for being harsh - I agree with that assessment.

 
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I actually WANT rolled off treble especially in the 5-10khz area because it physucally hurts my ears on the Denons....

 

 

[gokica]

Once you listen to HD 650 and compare them to other headphones with the so-called WOW factor they will sound boring. These are most probably going to be the first impressions at low volume listening. The sound is balanced and straightforward but the sub-woofer is not as strong as with other headphones meant for bass heavy impact. Coming from HD 485s I thought to my self why the h*** I spent so much and in return I got boring phones. I am a bass addict and pop + R'N'B + some movie scores are my favorites.
 
Some people say that they are laid back and less energetic. Well they are right but again at low level listening comparing to V shaped sounding headphones.
 
But below the sheep skin a dragon is hidden. The fun begins when I crank up my Xonar ST to extra high gain (+18db) and the volume knob goes higher. Luckily I can play with equalizer (this may not always be possible on some equipment). The S-Rock preset sounds just perfect for me when I would like to imagine "going in the crowd". Guess what: the WOW factor comes alive, the bass is deep and powerful but not bloated at all. This is not possible with the "sub-woofer" headphones which at higher volume start to deteriorate from the proper sounding music. HD 650 has no distortion at higher level.
 
Than for laid back music I lower the volume and they come back to normal. I can just listen to them for hours without fatigue. Now I know how bass really should sound. This is why they cost that much. Sennheiser charges because they sell HPs that can produce the sound as it should be produced and heard.
 
I am sure that Beyers, Denons, AKG (I owned K601) sound great and it depends on the listener preferences but I just wanted to say that HD 650 can for sure sound powerful and energetic. To my ears the treble is not rolled of but rather proper as well as the entire sound spectrum that they produce.

 

[nikongod]

 
Quote:

I was ready to drop another $200 or so on Markl Mod upgrades for my Denons, along with a DAC, but now I'm thinking I should just invest in a different set of Cans myself... Unless someone thinks a premium DAC could possibly bring these shrill highs more into balance?
 

 
Im guessing that an EQ is out of the question? 
The Behringer DEQ2496 does some pretty neat things.
 
I'd branch out and try other headphones rather than getting MarkL mods. If you find yourself coming back to the Denon's again and again, sure go for it. If you find you like other headphones sell them quick. 

 

[nicholars]

I would say that a DAC will not make much difference tbh.... The headphones will still sound the same (I have a £250 dac).....
 
You could try EQ out the treble at 5-10khz which will make it a bit better but IMO to get it to the level where the treble didnt irritate me I had to lower it so much that it made the music sound not very good.... So overall if the treble and sibilance bothers you then modding or buying a DAC will most likely not make much difference....
 
Hmmmmmmmm I am still not sure what to do... Maybe I will just try the HD650 and see what they are like because basically I cannot find ANY other decent headphones that have a decent bass response and non harsh treble.... Seems headphone manufacturers like to make them overly bright and sharp sounding...

 

[nikongod]

 
Quote:

Seems headphone manufacturers like to make them overly bright and sharp sounding...

Im pretty sure that this helps the headphones "get noticed" on the sales floor. To people who wont take the time to seriously compare a few different headphones after living with them for a while first impressions are the only thing that matter and the spike boosts details like whoa and is sure to get noticed. 
 
Its the same thing on the other side for headphones with a huge bass hump.
 
Its not even a "headphone thing" IME/IMO. It carries over into speaker-land with plenty of "high end" speakers that have lots of wow factor in one place, but lots of disappointment elsewhere. 

 

[Graphicism]

Quote:

I have had Shure SRH 840 and Denon D2000 Denon D2000 I found too sharp and sibilant and SRH 840 I found too boring and clinical sounding.....
 

 
Quote:

I would say that a DAC will not make much difference tbh.... The headphones will still sound the same (I have a £250 dac).....
 

What amp and DAC do you own, sorry if I missed where it was mentioned.
 
Bass-forward headphones like D2000 will be somewhat sibilant because they always boost the highs to save the phone from becoming muddy. You might be better off with a neutral phone rather than something with a v-curve if you are sensitive to that. If you want good bass and highs expect to shell out a little more money for headphones like D7000, Edition 8, T1 etc. A warmer-anologue sounding source would do much better with controlling the highs than say a bright-digital source, so in a sense a DAC will make a big difference. Stay away from op-amp based amps and DACs, whether $50 or $500 they all sound the same given they share the same op-amp.

 

[nicholars]

Mmmm similar to TV's which are super bright and over saturated colour in the shop to sell them

 

[nicholars]

Quote:

 


What amp and DAC do you own, sorry if I missed where it was mentioned.
 
Bass-forward headphones like D2000 will be somewhat sibilant because they always boost the highs to save the phone from becoming muddy. You might be better off with a neutral phone rather than something with a v-curve if you are sensitive to that. If you want good bass and highs expect to shell out a little more money for headphones like D7000, Edition 8, T1 etc.

I have a cambridge audio Dacmagic and a NAD 315bee integrated amp (both of these are supposedly smooth sounding)... What do you suggest for a neutral phone with good bass and minimal harsh treble? I cannot afford the flagship models atm
 

 

[Graphicism]

Quote:

I have a cambridge audio Dacmagic and a NAD 315bee integrated amp (both of these are supposedly smooth sounding)... What do you suggest for a neutral phone with good bass and minimal harsh treble? I cannot afford the flagship models atm
 

I've also had the Dacmagic and found it no better than an op-amp based $50 soundcard, as amended above op-amp based circuits are a waste of money. Personally I would sell the DAC for a cheap soundcard and put the money towards an OTL tube amp. I am not familiar with the NAD 315bee however like most integrated amps they're likely nothing special and will not boost the signal evenly which will result in piercing highs.
 
I would suggest a 600 Ohm DT880 with an OTL tube amp for a very good all-rounder that handles electronica with good speed and impact. Some may dismiss the DT880 as harsh and unlistenable but again this comes from under powering the phone.

 

[nicholars]

Hmmm well the dac and amp are generally well received and I like the amp and I think the Dac just does its job fine.... I am looking for headphones not a whole new setup