NeoVibe
100+ Head-Fier
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2003
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Sennheiser HD-800 & Rudistor RPX-33 EV08 audition
So much has been written on the HD-800 that I thought twice on whether I should post my impressions. But because I think the amplifier is key to how any Sennheiser performs and because many of the impressions posted lack info on the amplifier used I think this is worthwhile.
Besides, Rudistor products, while having had some fabulous reviews (mine yet to come) are not that popular in these forums and I think no one has posted information on this particular pairing.
For your reference, my impressions are based on a 2hr listening session, a brand new, 0 hours HD-800 and my own, well broken-in Rudistor RPX-33 EV08. Source was a Sonneteer Bronte CDP. I used all sorts of classical music, jazz and some acoustic guitar, all songs I’m very familiar with.
About this review I will have to warn you that I do not like to pick things apart. Music is one of them, so forgive me if my descriptions sound overly lyric and not down-to-earth but I’m really only interested in how they make me feel, not how they sound.
What’s it like?
I have lived for over 7 years with my HD-600 (powered first by an MG-Head OTL, then a Raptor, now the Rudistor) but now it’s time to move on. So, my main purpose for this audition was to determine if the HD-800 were just an evolution of the Sennheiser HD series sound or a new direction for Sennheiser flagship products. Note that I’m not referring to whether they are a completely new design (they are…) but if their sound shows they belong to the same family of headphones.
Yes.
They do.
After 7 years with the HD-600, putting on the HD-800 it did not feel like a different headphone. The same headphone but in another league, many steps ahead in all areas. But it is not a new direction. Current Sennheiser owners will feel at home from the start, but also very amazed with them… it’s the Sennheiser you already know but much better overall.
What’s the sound like?
All my impressions are very much comparative to the HD-600 on the same amp, but as these are well known in the community this should be helpful.
First impression is that they disappear from your head in the sense that it does not feel like you are listening to headphones nor speakers. It is kind of an abstract space, the music doesn’t seem to happen ‘inside your head’ (as with the 600’s) nor outside of it but … in an abstract place, perhaps something like a top studio.
At the top end they sounded very transparent, extremely detailed and extended. By extended I mean they had much more ‘breath’ especially with strings. By comparison the HD-600 feel like they run out of breath.
Bass-wise the feeling of physical impact is small, but, unlike the HD-600, I didn’t feel the need for more bass, bass sounded right. For someone who is likes ‘solid bass’ I was quite surprised I didn’t miss greater “physical” impact.
So, tell us what you’ve heard…
First some classical music.
With Mozart’s Requiem (Karajan / Philarmonic Orchestra of Viena), the HD-800 sounded very assured and completely correct in the sense that you do not doubt whether they are being true because they are so confident and in control of everything. But by comparison they sounded very ‘dry’ (neutral perhaps) while the HD600 by contrast sounded more ‘juicy’: part because soundstage is more compact and intimate (the sound ‘happens’ inside your head, like it is a miniature stage, while with the HD-800 it is an abstract space, neither in your head nor outside of it) and part because I can feel sort of a permanent resonance when listening to the HD-600 – I can’t quite describe it but this is a key part to what makes me be aware that I am listening to them; by contrast the HD-800 disappear and your are left with sound (music?) alone.
It is as if with the HD-600 the sound is jammed between the headphones and your ear, confined to a room smaller that is adequate; with the HD-800 the sound feels much more extended, like it is now free from the confines of that room, but not in the sense that you feel you are in a live venue, more like a top studio, perfectly damped with no resonances or reverberations. With the HD-800 you do feel you are ‘there’… but ‘there’ is more abstract than real. But true to the CD for sure.
Even with chamber music (Giardino Armonico [Decca], Italian 17th century music) this is apparent, maybe even more because with just a couple of instruments you are much more aware of the space they are playing in. The HD-600 put them all together in your lap, in an loving way; the HD-800 separate them in that…space.
With some more emotional soundtrack themes (Piano, Schindler’s List, The Village), overall feeling is that on the HD-600 everything sounds more intimate and perhaps more human. Hilary Hahn’s delicate performance in “The Vote” is more ethereal in the HD-800 because it is so precise and detached from reality, because you are not aware of the headphones… but not more emotional than the HD-600 with all their faults.
Finally Hilary Hahn’s this time playing Vaughan Williams’ “The Lark ascending” a piece that relies in silence, very quiet playing and again Hahn’s delicate performance: the correctness of the HD-800 is fabulous, the detail and transparency even more so – the sound of the bow touching the strings is detached from the sound of the instrument, and very evident.
Listening to Jazz (Gene Harris Quartet – “Listen Here!”), the same feeling, that the sound the HD600 produce is bigger than the room they create to play it so everything sounds contrived (by comparison). In the HD-800 the room is limitless and the sound free/extended.
The character is much more mellow with the HD-600 tough: in Diana Krall’s “If I had you” (“All for you”) the HD-600 feelt liquid and mellow, while the overall feeling with the HD-800 was that of dryness and control.
With Herbie Hancock’s “Gershwin’s World” the HD-800, while not being what I would call ‘fun’ are much more ‘sparkling’ instead of laid-back like their predecessors; everything is smoother (highs in particular) and … more high-resolution.
Miles Davis’ trumpet at ”Ascenseur Pour L'Echafaud” sounds ‘hard’ and insistent with the HD-600, but much more balanced and less tiresome with the HD-800; also much more transparent and extended.
Russel Malone’s guitar in “The Angle” sounded more articulate and faster in the HD-800.
To end, acoustic guitar. First the fabulous “Friday night in san Francisco” - what I remember most with the HD-800 was the detail, control and precision accentuating the staccato character of the guitars, while the HD-600 focuses more or the harmonics. Again, mellowness with the HD-600 contrasting with some ‘fire’ coming out of the HD-800 (in a good way).
Last but not least, Antonio Forcione and Neil Stacey “Live at the Edinburgh Festival”, a song called “A Tempo” – just two guitars in a sometimes frenetic, sometimes mellow crescendo that ends in a fabulous peak. The HD-600 sometimes lose the grip on the highs that become tiresome and too much in-your-face; the HD-800 maintain their high-tech control at all times, lots of speed and detail.
If I had to use an image, the HD-600 are like a classic, wood and leather room, cosy, warm and relatively small, in brown tones; the HD-800 are a spacious high-tech, space-age, minimalistic room, white leather and metal.
All of the above is, of course, a rather pointless description of what it felt to me.
Some people will find their experiences similar, others not so. I will not argue.
… but what’s the music like?
As I said, my main conclusion is that their character is the same as that of the HD-600. There is more air, transparency and punch, and they are much, much faster too. But it’s the same character. In fact, in this respect I would only say they are a bit colder or ‘distant’ than the HD-600 which seem more warmer and ‘closer’ to you. Perhaps it is because they are simply much more neutral and truthful.
I have thought for long that, no matter the recording or gear associated, the HD-600 is incapable of conveying any feeling of happiness, joy, lightness, airiness, euphory… joy de vivre. For me, the HD-800 also suffer the same. Livelier for sure but they still feel correct rather than fun or vividly colourful (not coloured!).
Don’t get me wrong, everything they do has greatness written large on it, but not for once did I feel either involved (as I would expect with classical) or having fun (with jazz/guitar).
I have a pair of Yamaha studio monitors (also plugged to the Rudistor) and they sound studio-like, a work tool – and they are! The HD-800 was the same, they sounded like a studio tool… a technical tour-de-force.
Moreover, plugging those Yamaha monitors to the Rudistor has definitely and clearly taken the edge off those ‘studio-sounding’ Yamaha monitors and made them more organic. This showed me beyond all doubt how much character this amp has and much of it comes through your speakers/headphones.
Even by comparison to a tube amp I previously had, the Raptor, the Rudistor is very organic, involving, emotive and emotional (while sounding correct). So if the HD-800 can be involving with any solid state amplifier, it should be so with the Rudistor or with no other.
It wasn’t.
Even with the organic-sounding Rudistor they did not add any emotion to the music.
(this is ‘in my humble opinion’… but I’ll concede that a very euphonic tube amp, which the Raptor is not for sure, might change this…)
Yes, the unit was not burned in but even so…
Don’t get me wrong, it’s a top headphone that will make many many people happy… just not me, and a good few other music lovers. For everyone else I would go as far as saying you can’t go wrong with it.
In the end of the day…
If I had a pair of HD-800, I would always marvel at what they are able to do, the deftness with which they handle everything, the feeling of correctness shot through everything they do.
But they did not pull me into the music. Maybe it's just me, maybe not.
Of course, they will perfectly portray whatever is on the CD and you will forever admire the perfection with which they do it. You will sit amazed, contemplating what Sennheiser has achieved and this will entertain you. If you crave for nothing more, then that’s the end of the story.
But if you know what it’s like when a voice is lit from within with human warmth, or when the emotion of a performer comes through his instrument or when the swing and rhythm of a jazz band makes your foot tap, then I think you might not find it here. And then you realize they do not make you happy at all, they’re just a technical tour-de-force… a tool, or a toy.
(depending on wether you are a recording engineer or an audiophile, respectively)
It’s like the perfect woman for whom you feel nothing at all, even if you can appreciate how perfect she might be.
Or perhaps a very good work colleague but neither a fun friend you want to hang out with nor an close friend you’ll tell your intimate problems to.
Just remembered what the box said: “crafted for perfection”.
Indeed.
“Does exactly what it says on the tin”
PS: For all this, my money (half of the HD-800 price by the way) will be on the JVC/Victor DX1000 (which I will have to buy to try…) Hopefully they might be what I’m looking for based on some love-it-or-hate-it reviews. Will let you know.
So much has been written on the HD-800 that I thought twice on whether I should post my impressions. But because I think the amplifier is key to how any Sennheiser performs and because many of the impressions posted lack info on the amplifier used I think this is worthwhile.
Besides, Rudistor products, while having had some fabulous reviews (mine yet to come) are not that popular in these forums and I think no one has posted information on this particular pairing.
For your reference, my impressions are based on a 2hr listening session, a brand new, 0 hours HD-800 and my own, well broken-in Rudistor RPX-33 EV08. Source was a Sonneteer Bronte CDP. I used all sorts of classical music, jazz and some acoustic guitar, all songs I’m very familiar with.
About this review I will have to warn you that I do not like to pick things apart. Music is one of them, so forgive me if my descriptions sound overly lyric and not down-to-earth but I’m really only interested in how they make me feel, not how they sound.
What’s it like?
I have lived for over 7 years with my HD-600 (powered first by an MG-Head OTL, then a Raptor, now the Rudistor) but now it’s time to move on. So, my main purpose for this audition was to determine if the HD-800 were just an evolution of the Sennheiser HD series sound or a new direction for Sennheiser flagship products. Note that I’m not referring to whether they are a completely new design (they are…) but if their sound shows they belong to the same family of headphones.
Yes.
They do.
After 7 years with the HD-600, putting on the HD-800 it did not feel like a different headphone. The same headphone but in another league, many steps ahead in all areas. But it is not a new direction. Current Sennheiser owners will feel at home from the start, but also very amazed with them… it’s the Sennheiser you already know but much better overall.
What’s the sound like?
All my impressions are very much comparative to the HD-600 on the same amp, but as these are well known in the community this should be helpful.
First impression is that they disappear from your head in the sense that it does not feel like you are listening to headphones nor speakers. It is kind of an abstract space, the music doesn’t seem to happen ‘inside your head’ (as with the 600’s) nor outside of it but … in an abstract place, perhaps something like a top studio.
At the top end they sounded very transparent, extremely detailed and extended. By extended I mean they had much more ‘breath’ especially with strings. By comparison the HD-600 feel like they run out of breath.
Bass-wise the feeling of physical impact is small, but, unlike the HD-600, I didn’t feel the need for more bass, bass sounded right. For someone who is likes ‘solid bass’ I was quite surprised I didn’t miss greater “physical” impact.
So, tell us what you’ve heard…
First some classical music.
With Mozart’s Requiem (Karajan / Philarmonic Orchestra of Viena), the HD-800 sounded very assured and completely correct in the sense that you do not doubt whether they are being true because they are so confident and in control of everything. But by comparison they sounded very ‘dry’ (neutral perhaps) while the HD600 by contrast sounded more ‘juicy’: part because soundstage is more compact and intimate (the sound ‘happens’ inside your head, like it is a miniature stage, while with the HD-800 it is an abstract space, neither in your head nor outside of it) and part because I can feel sort of a permanent resonance when listening to the HD-600 – I can’t quite describe it but this is a key part to what makes me be aware that I am listening to them; by contrast the HD-800 disappear and your are left with sound (music?) alone.
It is as if with the HD-600 the sound is jammed between the headphones and your ear, confined to a room smaller that is adequate; with the HD-800 the sound feels much more extended, like it is now free from the confines of that room, but not in the sense that you feel you are in a live venue, more like a top studio, perfectly damped with no resonances or reverberations. With the HD-800 you do feel you are ‘there’… but ‘there’ is more abstract than real. But true to the CD for sure.
Even with chamber music (Giardino Armonico [Decca], Italian 17th century music) this is apparent, maybe even more because with just a couple of instruments you are much more aware of the space they are playing in. The HD-600 put them all together in your lap, in an loving way; the HD-800 separate them in that…space.
With some more emotional soundtrack themes (Piano, Schindler’s List, The Village), overall feeling is that on the HD-600 everything sounds more intimate and perhaps more human. Hilary Hahn’s delicate performance in “The Vote” is more ethereal in the HD-800 because it is so precise and detached from reality, because you are not aware of the headphones… but not more emotional than the HD-600 with all their faults.
Finally Hilary Hahn’s this time playing Vaughan Williams’ “The Lark ascending” a piece that relies in silence, very quiet playing and again Hahn’s delicate performance: the correctness of the HD-800 is fabulous, the detail and transparency even more so – the sound of the bow touching the strings is detached from the sound of the instrument, and very evident.
Listening to Jazz (Gene Harris Quartet – “Listen Here!”), the same feeling, that the sound the HD600 produce is bigger than the room they create to play it so everything sounds contrived (by comparison). In the HD-800 the room is limitless and the sound free/extended.
The character is much more mellow with the HD-600 tough: in Diana Krall’s “If I had you” (“All for you”) the HD-600 feelt liquid and mellow, while the overall feeling with the HD-800 was that of dryness and control.
With Herbie Hancock’s “Gershwin’s World” the HD-800, while not being what I would call ‘fun’ are much more ‘sparkling’ instead of laid-back like their predecessors; everything is smoother (highs in particular) and … more high-resolution.
Miles Davis’ trumpet at ”Ascenseur Pour L'Echafaud” sounds ‘hard’ and insistent with the HD-600, but much more balanced and less tiresome with the HD-800; also much more transparent and extended.
Russel Malone’s guitar in “The Angle” sounded more articulate and faster in the HD-800.
To end, acoustic guitar. First the fabulous “Friday night in san Francisco” - what I remember most with the HD-800 was the detail, control and precision accentuating the staccato character of the guitars, while the HD-600 focuses more or the harmonics. Again, mellowness with the HD-600 contrasting with some ‘fire’ coming out of the HD-800 (in a good way).
Last but not least, Antonio Forcione and Neil Stacey “Live at the Edinburgh Festival”, a song called “A Tempo” – just two guitars in a sometimes frenetic, sometimes mellow crescendo that ends in a fabulous peak. The HD-600 sometimes lose the grip on the highs that become tiresome and too much in-your-face; the HD-800 maintain their high-tech control at all times, lots of speed and detail.
If I had to use an image, the HD-600 are like a classic, wood and leather room, cosy, warm and relatively small, in brown tones; the HD-800 are a spacious high-tech, space-age, minimalistic room, white leather and metal.
All of the above is, of course, a rather pointless description of what it felt to me.
Some people will find their experiences similar, others not so. I will not argue.
… but what’s the music like?
As I said, my main conclusion is that their character is the same as that of the HD-600. There is more air, transparency and punch, and they are much, much faster too. But it’s the same character. In fact, in this respect I would only say they are a bit colder or ‘distant’ than the HD-600 which seem more warmer and ‘closer’ to you. Perhaps it is because they are simply much more neutral and truthful.
I have thought for long that, no matter the recording or gear associated, the HD-600 is incapable of conveying any feeling of happiness, joy, lightness, airiness, euphory… joy de vivre. For me, the HD-800 also suffer the same. Livelier for sure but they still feel correct rather than fun or vividly colourful (not coloured!).
Don’t get me wrong, everything they do has greatness written large on it, but not for once did I feel either involved (as I would expect with classical) or having fun (with jazz/guitar).
I have a pair of Yamaha studio monitors (also plugged to the Rudistor) and they sound studio-like, a work tool – and they are! The HD-800 was the same, they sounded like a studio tool… a technical tour-de-force.
Moreover, plugging those Yamaha monitors to the Rudistor has definitely and clearly taken the edge off those ‘studio-sounding’ Yamaha monitors and made them more organic. This showed me beyond all doubt how much character this amp has and much of it comes through your speakers/headphones.
Even by comparison to a tube amp I previously had, the Raptor, the Rudistor is very organic, involving, emotive and emotional (while sounding correct). So if the HD-800 can be involving with any solid state amplifier, it should be so with the Rudistor or with no other.
It wasn’t.
Even with the organic-sounding Rudistor they did not add any emotion to the music.
(this is ‘in my humble opinion’… but I’ll concede that a very euphonic tube amp, which the Raptor is not for sure, might change this…)
Yes, the unit was not burned in but even so…
Don’t get me wrong, it’s a top headphone that will make many many people happy… just not me, and a good few other music lovers. For everyone else I would go as far as saying you can’t go wrong with it.
In the end of the day…
If I had a pair of HD-800, I would always marvel at what they are able to do, the deftness with which they handle everything, the feeling of correctness shot through everything they do.
But they did not pull me into the music. Maybe it's just me, maybe not.
Of course, they will perfectly portray whatever is on the CD and you will forever admire the perfection with which they do it. You will sit amazed, contemplating what Sennheiser has achieved and this will entertain you. If you crave for nothing more, then that’s the end of the story.
But if you know what it’s like when a voice is lit from within with human warmth, or when the emotion of a performer comes through his instrument or when the swing and rhythm of a jazz band makes your foot tap, then I think you might not find it here. And then you realize they do not make you happy at all, they’re just a technical tour-de-force… a tool, or a toy.
(depending on wether you are a recording engineer or an audiophile, respectively)
It’s like the perfect woman for whom you feel nothing at all, even if you can appreciate how perfect she might be.
Or perhaps a very good work colleague but neither a fun friend you want to hang out with nor an close friend you’ll tell your intimate problems to.
Just remembered what the box said: “crafted for perfection”.
Indeed.
“Does exactly what it says on the tin”
PS: For all this, my money (half of the HD-800 price by the way) will be on the JVC/Victor DX1000 (which I will have to buy to try…) Hopefully they might be what I’m looking for based on some love-it-or-hate-it reviews. Will let you know.
