[headstef]

As an Atrium owner (and S2) I personally wouldn't go that far. The S2 does have excellent layering and depth, especially on tubes, but the Atrium IMO is another step up. It presents a bigger stage with even more spatial separation, especially depth-wise. Where instruments at times might slightly blur on the S2, the Atrium keeps them better delineated. I was listening to a live California Guitar Trio track this weekend (can't remember which), and the guitarists are moving on the stage, so the guitars physically occupy the same horizontal line to the listeners ear/microphone. The S2 follows the movement superbly, but when they are in alignment, the notes have a slight blending, as they're playing similar notes (octaves? sorry don't know proper term). The Atrium nailed that transition, keeping the rear guitarist distinct from the front. Not that the S2 does it bad, mind you, but the Atrium does it better. I first heard that track years ago on the HD800, and that baby really nails the movement and depth. You can easily imagine just how close they performers were to each other at the recording.

Funny you mentioned the Atrium. I'm a shameless ZMF fanboy, and I've always come back to Sennheiser for the affordable alternative. Meaning if you don't want to spend ZMF money, Sennheiser has a model that's closest in overall sound (tonally, not technical performance). For example I always said the Atticus was a Super HD650. It IMO is the perfection of the 650's sound. This weekend I kept comparing the S2 to my Atrium and Atticus, and I already feel the Atrium is a Super HD660S2. Yes the ZMFs are better, but you get such a similar sound from the Senns, you could easily skip the expensive ZMFs and be happy. Oh, the Auteur is a Super HD600, IMO, forgot that one. I have nothing for the og 660S, i didn't like it.

I need to find this one track years ago some headfi'er linked to on youtube video, it was of cats wearing bells, with a binaural microphone in the middle of the room. It was the trippiest thing i've ever heard, but bar none the best test track for soundstage. Sadly a browser update killed my favorites, and it was lost. I've searched for years for it to no avail If anyone knows it, please link it here. What I loved was how precise the stage movement was. Imagine about 7 cats all with bell collars moving around a small stage, and those bells going off the whole time. Crazy spatial detail. Maybe PITA thought it was abusive and got it removed haha

Interestingly, we have more comparisons of an under $1000 headphone with the exquisite ZMF headphones:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/neumann-ndh-30.963439/page-41#post-17422435
Starting in post #604 up to a detailed comparison with TOTL headphones in post #634 of the above thread. It has become very clear now that the NDH 30 compares to significantly more expensive headphones, surpassing many of them in important areas.

 

[rostak]

Full disclosure I'm with the brand but use HDV 820 all day most days. First of all congratulations and welcome to the #HD660S2Club! The HDV 820 has very clean and even gain. It actually pairs quite nicely with the 660S2 because it is not imparting any additional flavor on a set of cans that already have a distinct flavor. I listen to them balanced and think they play well with this amp because of the above reasons but also the 300 ohm impedance -- the backdrop is pitch black. This lends to quite a punchy and engaging listen. What other cans are in your collection (I'm assuming the 800S)? That might help me fill in the blanks until they arrive. When A/B'ing them to my 800S (also balanced, 4.4mm), I notice a competitive level of detail from the 660S2 (but of course with a different sound stage) and a thicker image in the center. This makes drums and vocals an absolute joy on this rig.

I haven’t owned a pair of serious headphones for a number of years. 5-6 years ago, I owned the HD800S which were great but I found myself having to EQ them quite a bit so they would sound to my taste. I was missing bass and body which, in hindsight, is probably due to their immense soundstage (which was quite amazing) but they sounded a bit thin with their standard tuning. When I got the HDV820 (with Chord Hugo 2 as the DAC), it was a massive improvement in how dynamic the presentation became, though I still had to EQ them to get the bass/sub-bass extension and tame the sibilance on some recordings. I disliked the fact that I had to use software on my Mac to play music (so I could EQ them) and I often found myself fiddling with the controls instead of listening to music. Then I bought a pair of floorstanders with an amp and it was a revelation - they sounded perfect without any tweaking so I sold the HD800S and not looked back, as I thought finding a perfect pair of headphones was an endless search requiring a bottomless wallet

But recently, I started thinking about getting a pair of headphones again, maybe not as expensive as the HD800S, and something I wouldn’t need to tweak. I wanted something comfortable I could wear for a long time when I work, definitely open back. I still have the HDV820 (I was unwilling to sell it for 40% of its original price which was the highest offer I could get back then) so I started looking at the Sennheiser range again. I have very limited experience with the HD6 series and I was initially put off by everyone mentioning they don’t have much of bass/sub-bass extension. Not that I am a bass head, not at all, but when it’s been recorded in the music, I want it to be in the presentation. And around that time, the HD660S2 were announced. The reviews I’ve read made me intrigued so I thought I’d get a pair to try them out. I can always return them within a 14-day window.

I mainly listen to electronic music, pop, acoustic and I would like to watch a movie with them every now and then. I appreciate good resolution and imaging in a presentation that has body/is dynamic (I like bass but only when it’s meant to be there and doesn’t overpower or veil the music as I also like decent treble - I like a fun sound signature ) I plan to hook them up to the HDV820 via the balanced cable and use my Chord TT2 as the DAC. I’m hoping it will be a good chain as the TT2 has incredible transparency, resolution and sound stage - the main improvement over Hugo 2 is in its bass texture/resolution and how transparent, yet smooth the treble is, and I’ve never used any headphones with it. I shall find out soon! haha

Any advice on the time needed to burn them in?

 

[ericpalonen]

I haven’t owned a pair of serious headphones for a number of years. 5-6 years ago, I owned the HD800S which were great but I found myself having to EQ them quite a bit so they would sound to my taste. I was missing bass and body which, in hindsight, is probably due to their immense soundstage (which was quite amazing) but they sounded a bit thin with their standard tuning. When I got the HDV820 (with Chord Hugo 2 as the DAC), it was a massive improvement in how dynamic the presentation became, though I still had to EQ them to get the bass/sub-bass extension and tame the sibilance on some recordings. I disliked the fact that I had to use software on my Mac to play music (so I could EQ them) and I often found myself fiddling with the controls instead of listening to music. Then I bought a pair of floorstanders with an amp and it was a revelation - they sounded perfect without any tweaking so I sold the HD800S and not looked back, as I thought finding a perfect pair of headphones was an endless search requiring a bottomless wallet

But recently, I started thinking about getting a pair of headphones again, maybe not as expensive as the HD800S, and something I wouldn’t need to tweak. I wanted something comfortable I could wear for a long time when I work, definitely open back. I still have the HDV820 (I was unwilling to sell it for 40% of its original price which was the highest offer I could get back then) so I started looking at the Sennheiser range again. I have very limited experience with the HD6 series and I was initially put off by everyone mentioning they don’t have much of bass/sub-bass extension. Not that I am a bass head, not at all, but when it’s been recorded in the music, I want it to be in the presentation. And around that time, the HD660S2 were announced. The reviews I’ve read made me intrigued so I thought I’d get a pair to try them out. I can always return them within a 14-day window.

I mainly listen to electronic music, pop, acoustic and I would like to watch a movie with them every now and then. I appreciate good resolution and imaging in a presentation that has body/is dynamic (I like bass but only when it’s meant to be there and doesn’t overpower or veil the music as I also like decent treble - I like a fun sound signature ) I plan to hook them up to the HDV820 via the balanced cable and use my Chord TT2 as the DAC. I’m hoping it will be a good chain as the TT2 has incredible transparency, resolution and sound stage - the main improvement over Hugo 2 is in its bass texture/resolution and how transparent, yet smooth the treble is, and I’ve never used any headphones with it. I shall find out soon! haha

Any advice on the time needed to burn them in?

Wow thank you for the context! Super helpful. On paper it sounds like you are really going to enjoy the S2. I have no stance on burn-in other than letting your mind acclimate by having many listening sessions and many breaks in between. But if you have not been doing a lot of headphone listening lately, it should be quick

 

[rostak]

Wow thank you for the context! Super helpful. On paper it sounds like you are really going to enjoy the S2. I have no stance on burn-in other than letting your mind acclimate by having many listening sessions and many breaks in between. But if you have not been doing a lot of headphone listening lately, it should be quick

Sorry, I probably went a bit overboard. I blame the excitement it’s been years since I last used a pair of decent headphones. Bring on tomorrow!

 

[Rob80b]

I notice a competitive level of detail from the 660S2 (but of course with a different sound stage) and a thicker image in the center. This makes drums and vocals an absolute joy on this rig.

What I'm finding over and over again with S2 is getting this very intimate front row seat with the singer, if it has been recorded that way, and then when the rest of the ensemble comes it is properly spread out and distanced with clearly defined depth, delineated height and great body and bass, nothing is over done, just really well balanced.
This was very evident after pulling out one of our home grown Sarah Harmer "All Of Our Names", also previously I found it necessary to lower the volume on a few tracks as the treble got to be a bit much but not so with the S2.
https://tidal.com/album/98513334

 

[chesebert]

What I'm finding over and over again with S2 is getting this very intimate front row seat with the singer, if it has been recorded that way, and then when the rest of the ensemble comes it is properly spread out and distanced with clearly defined depth, delineated height and great body and bass, nothing is over done, just really well balanced.
This was very evident after pulling out one of our home grown Sarah Harmer "All Of Our Names", also previously I found it necessary to lower the volume on a few tracks as the treble got to be a bit much but not so with the S2.
https://tidal.com/album/98513334

Lol..are you sure you don't have NDH30? We need some clarification from Sennheiser on the diaphragm tech between 660S2 and NDH30.

 

[Rob80b]

...........We need some clarification from Sennheiser on the diaphragm tech between 660S2 and NDH30.

Quite possible the Senn and Neumann techs have been peaking over each other shoulders. : )
But seriously from my time with them the NDH30 they do have a larger sound field and more obvious bass but just not missed at all on the S2.

 

[SHAMuuu]

Well that is totally up to you..and that is the fun part, super cheap mod but opens up all finds of possibilities, single, double, sizing, holes...etc..etc..it's really more filtering, redirecting than absorption, for that wool would need to be applied but that's more for managing the lower frequencies and bass.

On the Neumann NDH 30 (aka Sennheiser) that has received very high praise they've applied a similar covering to the driver, more tissue like than paper towel....



I used a similar mod on my HD630VB to even out the frequencies.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sen...irst-impressions.766311/page-48#post-17242989

If even more attenuation is required synthetic porous felt could also be used.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sen...irst-impressions.766311/page-48#post-17244689

I have had some luck with medical porous tape (as suggested by a fellow head-fi friend) who I asked to help me tune an open back Denon D2000 (w/th500rp cups) . Funny enough (and this is before the release of the s2) I was trying to have it tuned like a Sennheiser w/subbass.

For treble hotness in the past I have used Beyerdynamic discs , which seem to tame hot treble as well.

I guess there are a plethora of materials varying in porous nature and/or density.

As well as the differences which can be achieved with rear and front dampening which provide different results.

The custom cans donut obv worked on the airflow on the rear, as well as coming with different density foams for the airflow. And others did various front driver mod with either super transparent material vs the thicker sennheiser foam.

I guess if the s2 is fine as it is, that is pretty cool. Modding is annoying at times

 

[Kbeau]

 

[bagwell359]

have had some luck with medical porous tape (as suggested by a fellow head-fi friend) who I asked to help me tune an open back Denon D2000 (w/th500rp cups) . Funny enough (and this is before the release of the s2) I was trying to have it tuned like a Sennheiser w/subbass.

For treble hotness in the past I have used Beyerdynamic discs , which seem to tame hot treble as well.

I guess there are a plethora of materials varying in porous nature and/or density.

As well as the differences which can be achieved with rear and front dampening which provide different results.

The custom cans donut obv worked on the airflow on the rear, as well as coming with different density foams for the airflow. And others did various front driver mod with either super transparent material vs the thicker sennheiser foam.

I guess if the s2 is fine as it is, that is pretty cool. Modding is annoying at times

Well the NDH-30 and Senn 660S2 are hot as pistols right now, I saw an FR of the NDH-30 which is well better than the 20, but it certainly looks like it needs EQ to really punch up. Got to take a trip to hear them both. Are they really the next great thing?

To all: As far as front facing filters and materials? Back facing, yes, that can make sense, along with other adjustments and treatments. But when I got into headphones after 45 years of high end room systems, and my own building, mods, and room design business - when I found the flap in front of the OG HE-6 and batting and tissue, and other stuff in the direct path of sound in other headphones - my skin crawls. It's like putting up a curtain in front of a good or better room system because you have a two big mirrors on the side walls. There is no way that whatever is wrong will be addressed by a simple filter, which does at the same time effect areas which have no or different problems. So veil for one, is veil for all.

Masking is what It's what people do to treat a symptom when they have not spent effort to understand the causes of whatever problem exists (or a builder wants a cheap/fast way out). Properly dealing with issues is the way to stop symptoms, not the other way around.

 

[jonathan c]

I have had some luck with medical porous tape (as suggested by a fellow head-fi friend) who I asked to help me tune an open back Denon D2000 (w/th500rp cups) . Funny enough (and this is before the release of the s2) I was trying to have it tuned like a Sennheiser w/subbass.

For treble hotness in the past I have used Beyerdynamic discs , which seem to tame hot treble as well.

I guess there are a plethora of materials varying in porous nature and/or density.

As well as the differences which can be achieved with rear and front dampening which provide different results.

The custom cans donut obv worked on the airflow on the rear, as well as coming with different density foams for the airflow. And others did various front driver mod with either super transparent material vs the thicker sennheiser foam.

I guess if the s2 is fine as it is, that is pretty cool. Modding is annoying at times …

… but mostly fun & sonically beneficial

 

[headstef]

Well the NDH-30 and Senn 660S2 are hot as pistols right now, I saw an FR of the NDH-30 which is well better than the 20, but it certainly looks like it needs EQ to really punch up. Got to take a trip to hear them both. Are they really the next great thing?

To all: As far as front facing filters and materials? Back facing, yes, that can make sense, along with other adjustments and treatments. But when I got into headphones after 45 years of high end room systems, and my own building, mods, and room design business - when I found the flap in front of the OG HE-6 and batting and tissue, and other stuff in the direct path of sound in other headphones - my skin crawls. It's like putting up a curtain in front of a good or better room system because you have a two big mirrors on the side walls. There is no way that whatever is wrong will be addressed by a simple filter, which does at the same time effect areas which have no or different problems. So veil for one, is veil for all.

Masking is what It's what people do to treat a symptom when they have not spent effort to understand the causes of whatever problem exists (or a builder wants a cheap/fast way out). Properly dealing with issues is the way to stop symptoms, not the other way around.

Ok, but something went wrong in your post, (the text in the box is not mine).

 

[Jermo K]

Lol..are you sure you don't have NDH30? We need some clarification from Sennheiser on the diaphragm tech between 660S2 and NDH30.

The NDH 30 uses the diaphragm of the HD 560S. It's a polymer blend with extraordinary internal dampening, so afterringing after the initial impulse is minimal. At the audiophile team of Sennheiser/Sonova, we have done a multitude of listening tests (also for the HD 660S2) and found that it compromises brilliance and detail retrieval. This is partly because the internal damping is so strong that the initial impulse at high frequencies may not be replicated accurately (it's slightly "blunted"). Instead, we use the laminate material of the HD 800 S, which has slightly higher THD in the bass and more natural decay. Most importantly it accurately reproduces impulses compared to the polymer blend material. Interestingly you can't see that in a frequency response. Even if you equalize the different materials in the same shell for the same treble amplitude, the laminate will subjectively sound as if it had more treble due to the more natural initial impulse response and also possibly due to increased decay.
Ultimately, it's a decision between minimal decay and cleaner bass or faithful treble impulse response, and it's okay to have a preference one way or the other. We as a team unanimously decided on superior detail retrieval as the raison d'etre for all of our audiophile headphones except the entry-level, and I believe the HD 660S2 is a great representative of that philosophy.

 

[xeizo]

The NDH 30 uses the diaphragm of the HD 560S. It's a polymer blend with extraordinary internal dampening, so afterringing after the initial impulse is minimal. At the audiophile team of Sennheiser/Sonova, we have done a multitude of listening tests (also for the HD 660S2) and found that it compromises brilliance and detail retrieval. This is partly because the internal damping is so strong that the initial impulse at high frequencies may not be replicated accurately (it's slightly "blunted"). Instead, we use the laminate material of the HD 800 S, which has slightly higher THD in the bass and more natural decay. Most importantly it accurately reproduces impulses compared to the polymer blend material. Interestingly you can't see that in a frequency response. Even if you equalize the different materials in the same shell for the same treble amplitude, the laminate will subjectively sound as if it had more treble due to the more natural initial impulse response and also possibly due to increased decay.
Ultimately, it's a decision between minimal decay and cleaner bass or faithful treble impulse response, and it's okay to have a preference one way or the other. We as a team unanimously decided on superior detail retrieval as the raison d'etre for all of our audiophile headphones except the entry-level, and I believe the HD 660S2 is a great representative of that philosophy.

So, HD700 driver once again re-purposed? Or totally new driver?

 

[Rob80b]

To all: As far as front facing filters and materials?

Porous filters are simply redirecting and slightly breaking up the direct higher frequency vibrations entering the ear, obviously over doing it can have an adverse effect and comb filtering.

Masking is what It's what people do to treat a symptom when they have not spent effort to understand the causes of whatever problem exists (

I'm the OP on this and do agree, for many probably most it's a band-aid solution, it's cheap, free and can salvage another wise difficult phone.

Properly dealing with issues is the way to stop symptoms, not the other way around.

The knowledge and resources to accomplish this is way beyond the average or even experienced head-fier....but if the symptoms are already there.

So far, thankfully the S2 is doing rather well as is. : )