[bmeat]

void

 

[palmfish]

Quote:

 
 
 
i like the brightness that the k240 studio are, i enjoy being able to hear what tempo the cymbals are being played up front like on the k240 studio...is the senn hd595 really too laid back and doesnt have enough attack or punch (impact and decay etc.) to give rock/metal or rap its punch?
 
im looking for a neutral/flat/balanced/accurate phone that is semi or fully open back, circumaural and my budget is about $150

 
 

Did you read your own post? You say you want a neutral headphone, but are asking for a headphone that has "brightness" and "punch" like the K240 Studio. Even the frequency curve you posted clearly shows a huge bass hump between 80Hz and 200Hz and a treble peak from 7kHz to 10kHz.
 
Here's a chart with your K240's and the Grado SR60...
 

 
 
 

 

[palmfish]

How about the Beyer DT990...
 

 

[tdockweiler]

Wow, the DT-990 and K240 Studio are like total opposites. Almost. Don't trust those charts.
The K240 Studio isn't bass heavy at all and almost dark, but has very good mids.
 
Strangely enough it seemed more bassy right out of the box. Now it's not even bass heavy. Definitely not like a DT-990!
 
If you want a neutral or balanced sound, the HD-598 is about as perfect as it gets. It's very smooth sounding to me. Even more so than any other headphone I've heard. Yet still fun to listen to. Another is the Q701, but HD-598 has the edge for what sounds like a smooth signature.
 
 

 

[tdockweiler]

Haven't been listening to my HD-598 much in the past 2 months. I think it's just that my Q701 and my DJ100 have been taking up all my time.
 
It seems that with my amp + DAC, the HD-598 was a bit too warm with the Mogami wire I was using.
 
I recabled my HD-598 for about the millionth time today using some really thin wire. I'm about 90% sure it's a Belden generic wire. Probably 1172A. It's the same wire I'm using with my Q701. Sounds pretty good and it's only 63 cents per foot. It's this stuff:
http://best-tronics.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=BMI&Product_Code=CA-0363&Category_Code=
 
 
Been listening to the HD-598 for about 4 hours tonight and sounds like it's usual self. Still very impressive for female vocals. Surprised how good it sounds even straight out of a Sansa Clip!! Obviously I use it with my desktop amp, but not bad.
 
Think my HD-598 and Q701 are tied as my favorite open headphones. HD-598 might have the edge for my music, but both are near perfect. HD-598 isn't a better headphone than the Q701, but just different.
 
BTW I do think the HD-598 has more bass then the Q701, so that's another plus.

 

[funkmeister]

It appears that the Beyers have +3dB of deep bass to low-mid hump and a +15dB in the upper trebles... and more recessed mids. Also, it depends greatly on the output impedance of the amp you have compared to the output impedance of the device driving the headphones for the FR chart. If they follow the only published standard out there of 150 Ohms, then they're short-changing the Beyers which would make it look as close as it is to the AKGs. I would expect in most real world scenarios to have a much stronger bass response from the Beyers. Burn-in also changes things measurably (Tyll Hertsens has proof of that) so it depends on where you are versus where these were when measured. Basically, there's too much to go wrong with measurements to trust FR charts entirely.
 
What I like about those AKGs is that they respond to maximum EQ to flatten them almost perfectly without developing any in-can resonance (that I can perceive). That's very different from the K272HD and K171's I've also used and tried to EQ with little range of tolerance before resonance started showing up.
 
Anyway, I found the Sennheisers (HD 598) to be a touch better than the AKGs right out of the box, but a tad thick or dark for my liking, though it is probably closer to neutral. FWIW I really like the K171 but ultimately prefer to have something as flat as possible. When I first unboxed and heard the K142HD (supra-aural version of K240/K242) I found it to be VERY thick. The low-mid hump drives me nuts, but EQs out perfectly. I also find the K171 to be more detailed than the K142, but the HD598 to be even better than the K171.

 

[Virtuoso80]

Quote:

one day if i find a friend who has them and ill give them a listen and they wow me, ill invest in a pair of sr60 for sure!
 
for now though, do you know if this senn hd598, about $80 over budget the perfect open back critical listner that i hope it is? i already hear the comfort is great and the cans leave more room for ears than the akg. the graph i posted above seems like is it pretty flat looking for some more experienced confirmation and/or general thoughts would be HIGHLY appreciated. i hope to make a purchase soon, was supposed to be my christmas gift
 
 

I just got a pair of 598's for Christmas, and I've been talking/complaining about them here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/587144/sennheiser-hd598-for-christmas-not-impressed-yet/
 
They're quality, and they have grown on me. Very detailed, well built, comfortable, accurate, but not, IMO, a lot of fun. The big thing you'll miss, without EQing, is that 10khz bump the graph shows. That's the 'veiled' highs people talk about. If you're irritated by brightness, then you'll love it. If not, you might find it sounds like you're losing your hearing. Also, they 'pretty up' every recording, make bad recordings sound better, so if you're looking for something that shows flaws, these aren't for you.
 
For pure neutrality at a bargain price, I've always thought nothing tops the MDR-7506's. Pretty much the inexpensive industry standard wherever you go, and I've never had complaints when using them at college, studios, or wherever.
 
Perhaps get those for mixing/reference, and some Grados for fun?
 
Me...I think I'll wind up breaking the piggy bank open and upgrading to some Denon D2000s.

 

[bmeat]

void

 

[palmfish]

Quote:

i was looking at the mdr7506, but i really want an open can type monitor. i alrady have a closed can for monitoring
 
i understand where youre coming from palmfish in saying i want netural..but then i say i want bright. im only repeating that i want bright becuase i know senn is known for its darkness, and laidbackness
 
according the the graphs, the k240studio and grados do look similar, but i was told theyre going to make every song sound the same and not show it for its true color. ontop of that, i was told the soundstage is not immersive, like im looking for. its very direct and in your face. the k240studio is kind of in your face (at least i think so) just becuase of the brightness, but the soundstage is much bigger and more immersive, and it also doesnt make every song have the a compaines house signature sound (in this case grado), it just makes the recording sound like how it was recorded, and thats what i want
 
concerning the bass between the k240stuido and the dt990 is that theyre a closed can, so that bass is going to resonate a lot more and its going to make it bassier, right? regardless..i really would like an open can. also, i dont thinkt he k240studio is dark like tdock is stating?
 
that brings me back to the senn hd598. im hearing some great things, then some not so great. the great things are that they are even more closer to netural, accurate etc..but then i hear that im going to loose the brightness up top :/ thats not good. even monitor type im looking at has peaks in the treble. another bad thing is that they dont show the recording for their true color. it sounds like the things i worried about might be true. these might lack the punch that they give most "monitors" now adays.
 
keep in mind that the k240studio are semi open, that could drastically change its sound qualities (probably for the better)
 
i ordered a pair regardless and when i get them ill let you guys know what i think. if anything i could always return or sell them and get my k240studio back and deal with them not fitting me correctly (stupid head!) since i know i already like their speedy clear and accurate, non-colored sound reproduction 
 
not really concerned about asking about soundstage becuase i read that these hd598 are great at soundstaging, placing things up down left right, and seperating things as well as the k240studio (hope this is true?)
 

I don't find Sennheisers the least bit "veiled" so I'm looking forward to hearing your impressions of the 598's!
 
In fact, I had a pair of HD 598's but I didn't keep them because, believe it or not, I found them borderline too bright and cold/analytical for my tastes. I went to stores and meets and sampled all kinds of setups for 6 months before I found the headphones that are right for me. I ended up with HD 600's, and to me, they sound very neutral.
 
What's important to take from this is that everybody hears differently and enjoys a different sound, so beyond broad generalizations, you really won't know how a pair will sound to you until you clamp them on your head and listen to music.
 
Enjoy the quest!
 

 

[bmeat]

void

 

[palmfish]

Quote:

i doubt they will sound bad to me..these are the most expensive cans i will ever own, they better sound good. on another note, i will definitely let you know if i like their sound signature. what i can tell you right now is that im trying to find an open can that has the least amount of a "signature" sound. i dont understand how people say these are neutral, but yet they dont show the recording for what it is, hows that possible?
 
thanks for the great information everyone
 

It's because there's no such thing as neutral.
 
How does anyone know what the recording is "supposed" to sound like? The recording studio acoustics and microphone adds a signature. The monitors and acoustics of the mixing room add their signature. The hearing ability and personal taste of the engineer adds a signature. Then there's the mixing board, amps, and ADCs and DACs in the recording and mixing chain (which, BTW, is why I find all the discussions about cable swapping, tubes, and opamps ridiculous). Then you get the disc home and your amp, DAC and headphones (which, by design, have no resemblance to "natural" sound) add their signature. And finally, there are your ears which are different than anyone else's!
 
The sound you hear coming out of a pair of headphones is a crapshoot at best and really has little resemblance to the original - and finding a headphone you like is a matter of trial and error.
 

 

[bmeat]

void

 

[palmfish]

Quote:

i dont use an amp or anything
 

 
Of course you do - an amp and a DAC. They're just itsy bitsy little ones.

 

[DarkAndroid]

Quote:

It's because there's no such thing as neutral.
 
How does anyone know what the recording is "supposed" to sound like? The recording studio acoustics and microphone adds a signature. The monitors and acoustics of the mixing room add their signature. The hearing ability and personal taste of the engineer adds a signature. Then there's the mixing board, amps, and ADCs and DACs in the recording and mixing chain (which, BTW, is why I find all the discussions about cable swapping, tubes, and opamps ridiculous). Then you get the disc home and your amp, DAC and headphones (which, by design, have no resemblance to "natural" sound) add their signature. And finally, there are your ears which are different than anyone else's!
 
The sound you hear coming out of a pair of headphones is a crapshoot at best and really has little resemblance to the original - and finding a headphone you like is a matter of trial and error.
 

this.
 

 

[funkmeister]

If you believe the AKG K240's were pretty close to neutral, you'll be very pleased with these headphones. They take that to the next level. They are better for achieving that... in my experience.
 
Also, if you want something even more neutral, though considered anaemic by many, get the AD900. They don't present detail the same as the HD598 and have a softer low-end presence, but after a few minutes with them, you'd hardly know. Oh, the AKGs require more burn-in than the Sennheisers (or A-Ts). So don't plan on needing more than a couple hours before they're where you can expect them to be for the long haul.