[palmfish]

Fair enough. Then tell me, why did I hear such difference when going from an E10 amp stage to a full fledged Dynalo? Keep in mind that I'm not a high volume nut- I drove my HD650 at 30% on the E10 and on a similar volume position on a Dynalo. I can't help but to think that there's something else beyond loudness for an amp to produce. Damping factor? Nah, damping can't give me more treble.

That's a good question - i don't know. Obviously, all amps introduce some distortion to the original signal (tube amps are a good example of this). Many people love the way OTL amps distort the signal.

Your guess is as good as mine, but I suppose the Dynalo's particular brand of distortion is more pleasing to you. If you don't listen at high volume, then obviously it's not a power (clipping) issue. On the other hand, if your comparisons were done sighted and without precise level-matching, then it would be impossible to know how the two amps truly compare to each other.

 

[RudeWolf]

I have a bad feeling that the E10 amp stage starts to roll off at 10kHz or so.
 
In any case I'm really excited with my Dynalo. A great amp for someone who's not afraid to learn and solder. Too bad that boards and input FET's are almost unobtanium.
 
Speaking of the HD598- I had auditioned it for a few times and in the end went with the HD650.

 

[tdockweiler]

Quote:

I have a bad feeling that the E10 amp stage starts to roll off at 10kHz or so.
 
In any case I'm really excited with my Dynalo. A great amp for someone who's not afraid to learn and solder. Too bad that boards and input FET's are almost unobtanium.
 
Speaking of the HD598- I had auditioned it for a few times and in the end went with the HD650.

I read that as 10hz at first..oops. Wow 10khz?
I don't know why, but the more I listen to the E10, the more I hate it. With some music it sounds amazing and then other times it sounds like the mids are being shoved in my face or it sounds bloated in the bass and muddy.
What's strange is that the treble doesn't sound rolled off to my ears. At one point it sounded like it had more treble than my HRT MSII.
 
I've also found that the E10 just doesn't sound good to me as a DAC when using the line out. The only way it sounds decent or closer to neutral is when I do the stupid thing and send the headphone out to an amp. Even the soundstage improves, which makes no sense.
 
Today I've been using this cheapy $35 X-Fi Go Pro (DAC) and it sounds better to me. Much smoother and the mids are much less fatiguing. People with the HD-598 should try it. Return it if you hate it.
 
No idea why, but my Realtek HD onboard audio and X-Fi sound more neutral than this E10 and my HRT.
 
I think it's safe to say I don't like the E10 with the 598.
 
Maybe if this X-Fi DAC is so flat, the Titanium HD will have a similar sound signature. Hope so..

 

[palmfish]

I have a bad feeling that the E10 amp stage starts to roll off at 10kHz or so.

In any case I'm really excited with my Dynalo. A great amp for someone who's not afraid to learn and solder. Too bad that boards and input FET's are almost unobtanium.

Speaking of the HD598- I had auditioned it for a few times and in the end went with the HD650.

I also had a tough time choosing between the 598 and 650. In the end I split the difference and went with the 600.

I'm glad you like your amp. You can't put a price on pride of ownership when you build something yourself. I was an electronics technician years ago but I haven't touched a circuit in 25 years and Ive never built anything from scratch. I do like the idea of tackling a DIY project some day, but with work, family, etc. I just don't have the free time or space to take on a project. Maybe in a few years.

 

[RudeWolf]

Haha, 25 years ago I wasn't even here! Still I think late eighties and nineties were the golden age for DIY, most of the good parts were still in production and Class-D hadn't taken off. Nowadays if someone designs an amp around transistors he can never be sure if Vishay doesn't buy the company that makes them and decide to optimize it for SMD. Heck, I'm pretty sure that it would be easier to find a tube from the thirties than some high voltage transistors.
 
As for the E10 high freq roll-off check this out-

 

[palmfish]

That does indeed look like a steep roll off after 10kHz, but not as steep as you think. The chart is logarithmic so the highest frequencies are very compressed on the x axis. It looks like about -1.5 dB roll of at 15kHz, which I personally wouldn't be able to hear with my hearing. Someone your age with excellent hearing would probably be able to detect it, but it would be very subtle.

Still not good to see - any decent amp should be flat from 20Hz to 20 kHz.

Nothing wrong with opamps and Class D. My home theater 7-channel amp is Class D and it's a remarkable performer. It's like making a case for carburation vs. electronic fuel injection. Some folks love tinkering with their trusty old Holly 4 barrels, but fuel injection is superior in pretty much every way.

 

[tdockweiler]

Never would have imagined it has that much of a drop off. Wonder why it's perfectly flat all the way across on the NW website using both line out and headphone out. Both of them sound much different to me too, but he said they measure the same.
Actually I guess there's a tiny bit of drop off on his website, but I didn't notice it at first.
 
Maybe this is why it sounds a bit strange with the 598.
 
BTW the graphs of the nuforce icon mobile are funny. It starts dropping off at 100hz! Good it doesn't sound nearly as bad as the charts show.
 
Hopefully the E17 measures even better. I'm sure it's a better match for the HD-598.
 
Quote:

Haha, 25 years ago I wasn't even here! Still I think late eighties and nineties were the golden age for DIY, most of the good parts were still in production and Class-D hadn't taken off. Nowadays if someone designs an amp around transistors he can never be sure if Vishay doesn't buy the company that makes them and decide to optimize it for SMD. Heck, I'm pretty sure that it would be easier to find a tube from the thirties than some high voltage transistors.
 
As for the E10 high freq roll-off check this out-

 

[TMRaven]

Damn I never knew Fiio made something that flawed. 

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

That's not a fault. That's just like one or more of the NFB5's filters. Different companies use specific types of DAC responses. Minimum Aphodising, Linear Phase, etc. Human hearing isn't that great to begin with. Some people prefer that type of response. Its not a very noticeable difference, to b honest.

 

[TMRaven]

It just seems like something that many audiophiles would despise since they're all about their 'audiophile air' in the upper treble.  I guess headphones with good, clean peaks around 10khz just before the dropoff would slightly make up for it though.
 
I remember Tyll noted he thinks the main reason why he thought the LCD-2 lacked any presence in the treble was because of its lack of treble between 10khz and 14khz.

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

The difference is very minor compared to a headphone's response. It looks bigger than it actually sounds like.

I could change the filters on the NFB5 on the fly from one that's perfectly flat, and one that rolls off like that, and I'd fail to hear the difference 99% of the time. Its very minor.

Pretty sure that roll off is what makes the E10 slightly warm. It won't make harsh treble smooth or anything.

Roll offs like that are mostly to reduce ringing and artifacts from treble decay, FWIR.

 

[tdockweiler]

Quote:

The difference is very minor compared to a headphone's response. It looks bigger than it actually sounds like.
I could change the filters on the NFB5 on the fly from one that's perfectly flat, and one that rolls off like that, and I'd fail to hear the difference 99% of the time. Its very minor.
Pretty sure that roll off is what makes the E10 slightly warm. It won't make harsh treble smooth or anything.
Roll offs like that are mostly to reduce ringing and artifacts from treble decay, FWIR.

 
The E10 doesn't sound like it has any lack of treble to my ears. In fact, one impression I got was that it had more than my HRT MSII!
 
I'll be glad when I can finally decide on a new DAC or even...(gasp)..sound card. The soundcard option is highly unlikely. The Titanium HD and Xonar DX (not DG) measure very well it seems.
 
I want to get the Headroom Micro DAC, but it's a bit more than I want to pay at the moment. Maybe I can sell off all my headphones to buy it!
 
Dacport LX looks good. I hate how all these DACs are supposed to be perfectly neutral, but they sure never sound that way. I hope the Odac REALLY is.
 
It's weird how all my full sized CD players and soundcards have all sounded more neutral than my computer DACs.

 

[RudeWolf]

Yeah, the graph seems logarithmic... Then again if that's a DAC filter in action then I should have been able to hear the roll-off on a separate amp which doesn't seem to be the case. The funny thing is that my father who is skeptical of this amp business heard the same thing. In any case I'm looking to get a Pico as a source and see where it gets me.

 

[stv014]

Either there are multiple versions of the E10 that sound different, or the graph above is wrong. Here is one that I think is more likely to be reliable:
 

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

Definitely looks more realistic to what it actually does.