[chesebert]

Tell that to the guy who listens to classical. Re the 650, despite it's impressive midrange, it misses so many instruments on the stage that's unlistenable with that genre. Go to the 800/800S and you get the full stage but the mids are thin and the treble is sharp. This 490 Pro gives you the stage and an impressive midrange with no sharpness. This adds up to few compromises with this HP.

Have you ever listened to 650 with a decent amp? By decent I mean powerful, transparent and not sterile. Same applies for 800/800S, no thin mid or sharp treble here.

 

[equalspeace]

Have you ever listened to 650 with a decent amp? By decent I mean powerful, transparent and not sterile. Same applies for 800/800S, no thin mid or sharp treble here.

You keep asking me about my amps lol. I have the V222. It's a great amp and drives both 600/650.. very well. In the past I owned the CMA 12 Master and had it with the 650/600. I know how they sound when pushed well dude.

 

[chesebert]

You keep asking me about my amps lol. I have the V222. It's a great amp and drives both 600/650.. very well. In the past I owned the CMA 12 Master and had it with the 650/600. I know how they sound when pushed well dude.

Your description of the sound says otherwise. You can pick up the dynahi in the classified and it will blow your V222 away. It's very hot running but fine for winter.

 

[listenerwww]

Tell that to the guy who listens to classical. Re the 650, despite it's impressive midrange, it misses so many instruments on the stage that's unlistenable with that genre. Go to the 800/800S and you get the full stage but the mids are thin and the treble is sharp. This 490 Pro gives you the stage and an impressive midrange with no sharpness. This adds up to few compromises with this HP.

There are myriad explanations for your impressions, and I’m not sure any of them disagree what I’ve said.

Personally I’ve never found HD 650 to straight up delete instruments from an arrangement as you say, so all I can say with certainty is that I experience things differently than you. Rather uncontroversial in a game as subjective as this, I’m sure you’d agree.

 

[equalspeace]

Your description of the sound says otherwise. You can pick up the dynahi in the classified and it will blow your V222 away. It's very hot running but fine for winter.

Whatever you say man. Check the specs on those amps and read up on the CMA 12 Master in particular and tell me if it doesn't fit your comments re "powerful, transparent and not sterile". I can assure it meets all of those criteria, at least to my ears, and frankly so does V222 lol.

Also to add re the 600. It had been my go to with classical. However I always wished for more stage width, better separation and more bass. 490 is providing that at the expense of some timbre strength. I'll take that trade off. Timber on 490 is still very good.

 

[equalspeace]

There are myriad explanations for your impressions, and I’m not sure any of them disagree what I’ve said.

Personally I’ve never found HD 650 to straight up delete instruments from an arrangement as you say, so all I can say with certainty is that I experience things differently than you. Rather uncontroversial in a game as subjective as this, I’m sure you’d agree.

Oh 650 does miss instrumentation with busy classical.. lol. The fact you do not understand that tells me something considering you have an 8 series. You telling me one of those ain't significantly better than the other re stage, imaging and separation??

 

[listenerwww]

Oh 650 does miss instrumentation with busy classical.. lol. The fact you do not understand that tells me something considering you have an 8 series. You telling me one of those ain't significantly better than the other re stage, imaging and separation??

Maybe a little? I EQ the HD 800 whereas I usually leave the HD 650 stock, so I wouldn’t be surprised if the differences there are mostly down to tone (650 being a little mushier compared to my HD 800 when EQed).

Even if there are differences, I’ve never found HD 600 or 650 to delete entire instruments, even from faster or more crowded classical arrangements. Of course, if that’s your experience more power to ya, I just don’t think something so specific/personal like that would be enough for me to give up something as fundamental as midrange tuning, yk?

 

[chesebert]

Whatever you say man. Check the specs on those amps and read up on the CMA 12 Master in particular and tell me if it doesn't fit your comments re "powerful, transparent and not sterile". I can assure it meets all of those criteria, at least to my ears, and frankly so does V222 lol.

Also to add re the 600. It had been my go to with classical. However I always wished for more stage width, better separation and more bass. 490 is providing that at the expense of some timbre strength. I'll take that trade off. Timber on 490 is still very good.

Regardless I am happy you found 490 to your liking. The FR looks close to NDH30 from mid down and without all those damping materials they should be easier to drive well. Assuming they are closely related then it's a fantastic value at MSRP. The timbre on NDH30 is clearly better than HD600/650.

 

[equalspeace]

Maybe a little? I EQ the HD 800 whereas I usually leave the HD 650 stock, so I wouldn’t be surprised if the differences there are mostly down to tone (650 being a little mushier compared to my HD 800 when EQed).

Even if there are differences, I’ve never found HD 600 or 650 to delete entire instruments, even from faster or more crowded classical arrangements. Of course, if that’s your experience more power to ya, I just don’t think something so specific/personal like that would be enough for me to give up something as fundamental as midrange tuning, yk?

If you A/B your 800 and a 650 objectively w a busy passage of Beethoven guaranteed you will hear smearing of the image and arrangements that simply are missed on the latter that you will definitely not with the former. It’s just not the same level of resolve/resolution. And now good ole Senn has brought a similar disparity re imaging, stage and overall resolution to a modern midrange headphone in the 490

 

[jbarrentine]

Tell that to the guy who listens to classical. Re the 650, despite it's impressive midrange, it misses so many instruments on the stage that's unlistenable with that genre. Go to the 800/800S and you get the full stage but the mids are thin and the treble is sharp. This 490 Pro gives you the stage and an impressive midrange with no sharpness. This adds up to few compromises with this HP.

See this is good information for me.
I returned an 800S. It was a very expensive waste. I see it as a one trick pony with the staging that makes people willing to overlook the faults. I also felt like I was in the nose bleed seats at a stadium while listening to absolutely everything and that just wouldn't do.

 

[listenerwww]

If you A/B your 800 and a 650 objectively w a busy passage of Beethoven guaranteed you will hear smearing of the image and arrangements that simply are missed on the latter that you will definitely not with the former. It’s just not the same level of resolve/resolution. And now good ole Senn has brought a similar disparity re imaging, stage and overall resolution to a modern midrange headphone in the 490

I will of course leave the possibility open to that being my experience if I ever get to compare 490 to 600/650, but even if that's the case I have my doubts about the solid midrange and treble tuning being worth giving up for that finer separation you're prioritizing.

 

[MadHiFi]

I shall definitely give that track a listen, thank you for your thoughts also! I appreciate it

Did you had time to also test with the fabric pads? Would be interested in your impressions with them.

 

[MadHiFi]

Are you on production pads only or did you also compare with mixing? HD600 is still maybe the best headphone for that timbre you describe/hear there.

And sorry for you to hear that track 20 times in a row... Listened to some Billie Eilish tracks today and really liking them with mixing pads (Ocean eyes, no time to die to name some examples).

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/xlr-...onnector-for-audeze-akg-o7mm-unit-p-8871.html
This connector is fitting well by the way. Now I will sure have some fun soldering that thing to an interchangable connector...

Also listened to Billie Eilish now...same again: the voice overall presentation is clear better than on the HD490 Pro. Since I understood and heard the difference I always notice that "frosted glas" effect.
I'm still so undecided. I originally started looking for a headset for gaming and ended up here in this forum after months of searching, rediscovering my passion for listening to music. The HD 490 Pros are definitely the best gaming headphones I've ever heard. And they are so incredibly comfortable. Plus, they have the better cable connection and factory cables. And if you're not familiar with the performance of the 600, they're definitely great headphones. Everything you need. Why is this decision so hard If I keep both, my wife will kill me

 

[Menkau-ra]

Agreed.

The point of what I was saying is: Since we don’t get “actual soundstage” on headphones, asking Sennheiser to compromise midrange tuning for the inconsistent and frankly unimpressive phenomenon of “headphone soundstage” doesn’t strike me as a compromise worth making when people rarely agree on things like “headphone soundstage” anyway.

Would much rather they work on finding a way to make the HD 650 midrange available in a package that’s more comfortable and less effected by pad wear. More bass extension would be nice, but considering how Senn has compromised tone to get more bass in the past, I’m fairly certain the trade-off isn’t worth it to me.

Don’t judge HD650 bass until you hear them on SGP1

 

[CammyFi]

Did you had time to also test with the fabric pads? Would be interested in your impressions with them.

I've uploaded a video to youtube about them