[Hunched]

  Very strange then because I have done nothing special with my setup the game just worked. How do you know the game is only outputting stereo on your GSX?

How I basically just described. 
It sounds left/right and there is no front or rear positional cues like in Battlefield, BioShock Infinite, GTA V, or any other game with known functional surround.
I use identical Windows settings for everything, 5.1 movies included, speaker mapping tests, whatever, it all sounds right and you can hear all the positions.
 
With Rainbow Six Siege, enabling 7.1 on the display is the same effect as enabling it when watching a YouTube video or listening to stereo music, it makes everything distant and wrong.
That's why you're supposed to put the GSX in 2.0 mode when listening to nearly all music or watching YouTube or Twitch. 7.1 mode is only for 5.1/7.1 audio sources or it sounds worse.
R6S gives the hollowed out, distant sound with no added positional cues with 7.1 enabled on the GSX, exactly what happens to any other 2.0 audio.
 
If you're watching a 5.1 movie or playing a game with the audio settings set to 5.1/7.1, it noticeably sounds messed up if you then put the GSX into 2.0 mode, it needs to be 7.1 to sound correct.
Not with R6S, it sounds proper in 2.0 mode, because it's giving me 2.0 audio, like music or YouTube.
 
If I change my Windows speaker configuration from 7.1 speakers to 2.0 speakers, Rainbow Six Siege sounds identical, nothing changes.
If it was putting out 7.1 audio when things were configured to 7.1 because it was automatically detecting it and adjusting, there would be a huge difference of course.
And you can't change any important audio settings in the audio settings of the game like GTA V and others can.
 

  Uploading a test file for you to hear yourself the game is outputting a true 5.1 signal I know this because each channel is playing something different from the rest.

Alright. I wonder how the engine is doing it.
It could be upmixing and creating 5.1 separate channels or something from 2.0, which is why it sounds like garbage and not like proper 5.1/7.1
I should be able to find a source of noise and have it easily sound in front or behind, like it moves around me when I rotate, like everything else does. R6S doesn't do this for me, it's just stereo level directional cues.

 

[shankly1985]

Even when I play I can hear footsteps etc the problem with Rainbow six isn't the 5.1 or 7.1 its the sound engine they chosen to use.
 

 
 

 

[Hunched]

The game does not support 5.1 properly or at all.
 
Do you not hear how muffled and distant it becomes with 7.1 enabled on the GSX, but how proper it sounds in 2.0?
 
Just listen to the gunshot fly by the left ear at like 2:15, enabling GSX 7.1 doesn't even add anything it just breaks the sound, just like it does in-game.
I think the game might use its own DSP or processing that downmixes 5.1 to 2.0, like the GSX will do if it is fed 5.1/7.1.
This way they can get everyone to experience a version of enhanced stereo.
 
If the game was actually sending 5.1 directly to the GSX, it wouldn't sound perfect in 2.0 mode like it does.
 
The directional/positional cues are not at all more defined by enabling 7.1 on the GSX. 
 
This game is sending 2.0 audio to the GSX 1000 at the end of the day, and applying the 7.1 DSP to it ruins everything.
Nobody with AV receivers can get 5.1/7.1 from the game either, just 2.0.
 
Play any game or audio in general that is 2.0 and enable 7.1 on the GSX and you get the same effect as you do with R6S.
No additional positional information, just muffled distant hollowed out sound that's a bit forward.
Not even your own characters voice or footsteps will sound quite near you like they should.
 
It's more evident with real 5.1/7.1 setups of course.
So many results like this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Rainbow6/comments/48cei4/does_siege_on_pc_have_51_dolby/

Nobody with a true 5.1/7.1 surround set up can get more than 2ch audio from Rainbow Six Siege.
Everyone thinking they're hearing 5.1/7.1 in Siege when the game doesn't even have the functionality...

 

[shankly1985]

It does have some form off surround sound though, even if we got back to the SBx vs GSX video and take notice of the nade early in each video, the GSX plays the nade noise at a better distance than the SBx on the SoundBlaster the nade sound seems much further away than it actually is.

I do agree with you though the sound effect in RB 6 is different from other games and this is because of the sound engine they have went with. But surround sound still does work, even the enemy footsteps in my testing come out the rear channels.

 

[Hunched]

  It does have some form off surround sound though, even if we got back to the SBx vs GSX video and take notice of the nade early in each video, the GSX plays the nade noise at a better distance than the SBx on the SoundBlaster the nade sound seems much further away than it actually is.

I do agree with you though the sound effect in RB 6 is different from other games and this is because of the sound engine they have went with. But surround sound still does work, even the enemy footsteps in my testing come out the rear channels.

I think the engine tries to render surround and then outputs it in 2.0 for use with any pair of headphones, so the game is trying to do what our GSX is trying to do.
The game is turning the 5.1 into 2.0 instead of sending 5.1 to the GSX to turn into 2.0, and the game does it worse than the GSX, practically enhanced stereo worse.
It could be doing some garbage upmixing, trying to create 5.1 from 2.0 and then outputting 2.0 for all to be able to use.
 
The SBX and GSX can still sound different, they're still applying a unique DSP. I could listen to 2ch music in Foobar and ruin it by enabling 5.1/7.1 on the SBX and GSX and they would sound different from each other.
 
Nobody with a real 5.1/7.1 speaker setup being able to get anything besides the stereo speakers working with Rainbow Six Siege confirms the game is only outputting 2.0 though, even if it's doing a bunch of weird surround processing before hand... sort of like the GSX. We can't get 5.1/7.1 output out of the GSX, just 2.0 containing 5.1/7.1 information.
It's sort of like Ubisoft created a worse version of Razer Surround specifically for their game, a software surround solution for headphones.
 
Anyways, screw this game for testing. It's too weird with whatever they're trying, it's unlike everything else and it's not a brilliant solution.

 

[Thekarma]

I Un-boxed my GSX that was ready to be sent back to Amazon just to do more tests. I asked 10 people, both gamers and 'lay' people, to position a bot at a specific point in a map with their eyes shut, using only audio cues (CSGO). I then measured how far away they were from the point. The participants were blind to the condition they were in and the order was randomised to minimise rehearsal bias. Additionally, just out of interest they were asked which one they preferred. 4 people preferred the GSX, 3 peoples preferred the SBX and 3 people had no preference.
 

 
The results were interesting. I feel given the testing methods that the two sound solutions were within reasonable error margins of each other. However, the GSX seemed to perform/be interpreted worse when the cues were from behind. This was backup with observations. I noticed more participants made errors confusing front and back with the GSX. This is probably because the GSX is less muffled from behind so it is harder to tell the difference. As a high rank CSGO player this was the last evidence I needed to send back the GSX. However, the GSX does what Sennheiser does best, crystal clear audio. As I have already said, I think this is a great upgrade for gamers who only have on-board sound, Dolby headphones, or even an un-amped SBZ. If you already have a decent amp the GSX is a waste. It's a lot of money for something that software can do with very little CPU use. It's similar to when Razer Surround came out. There were videos saying it was as good as 'cheating' because of the advantage it gave you in CSGO. After the hype is gone it's just a slightly different 'tune' of an already existing technology. I wont go in to great detail, but there are only so many ways that you can trick the brain in to thinking sounds are coming from different directions and all the virtual surround companies use the same methods.
 
TLDR: Accuracy in CSGO was about the same for the Soundblaser Z and the GSX 1000. It was slightly harder to tell back from front on the GSX. The GSX sounds great, but is expensive and offers very little advantage over the Soundblaster Z with an Amp.

 

[overhaze]

  I Un-boxed my GSX that was ready to be sent back to Amazon just to do more tests. I asked 10 people, both gamers and 'lay' people, to position a bot at a specific point in a map with their eyes shut, using only audio cues (CSGO). I then measured how far away they were from the point. The participants were blind to the condition they were in and the order was randomised to minimise rehearsal bias. Additionally, just out of interest they were asked which one they preferred. 4 people preferred the GSX, 3 peoples preferred the SBX and 3 people had no preference.
 

 
The results were interesting. I feel given the testing methods that the two sound solutions were within reasonable error margins of each other. However, the GSX seemed to perform/be interpreted worse when the cues were from behind. This was backup with observations. I noticed more participants made errors confusing front and back with the GSX. This is probably because the GSX is less muffled from behind so it is harder to tell the difference. As a high rank CSGO player this was the last evidence I needed to send back the GSX. However, the GSX does what Sennheiser does best, crystal clear audio. As I have already said, I think this is a great upgrade for gamers who only have on-board sound, Dolby headphones, or even an un-amped SBZ. If you already have a decent amp the GSX is a waist. It's a lot of money for something that software can do with very little CPU use. It's similar to when Razer Surround came out. There were videos saying it was as good as 'cheating' because of the advantage it gave you in CSGO. After the hype is gone it's just a slightly different 'tune' of an already existing technology. I wont go in to great detail, but there are only so many ways that you can trick the brain in to thinking sounds are coming from different directions and all the virtual surround companies use the same methods.
 
TLDR: Accuracy in CSGO was about the same for the Soundblaser Z and the GSX 1000. It was slightly harder to tell back from front on the GSX. The GSX sounds great, but is expensive and offers very little advantage over the Soundblaster Z with an Amp.

 
Interesting. Think you could do another blind test with Razer Surround thrown in? See how the paid options compete compare to free?

 

[Thekarma]

Yeah, I would like to do Razer and perhaps just stereo but people are busy over Christmas....

 

[shankly1985]

TBH I understand CSGO might be your main title you play. But I feel its unfair to judge the GSX vs SBx based on just one game, a game that only does 5.1.
They is also other things to take into consideration while the SBx does really well surround sound I have no doubt in that its the way it sounds that puts me completely off vs the GSX
SBx sounds like you standing inside a hall or something the sound is very echo-y and unnatural.
The GSX can be made to sound like the SBx by enabling the Reverb settings, but that isn't needed the GSX with only 7.1 and a preset is more than enough "Story mode" etc The sound from the GSX is so much more natural surround sound and doesn't sound echo-y

Download the 7.1 test file from and hear for yourself just how much better the GSX does surround sound. and then compare a game with 7.1 surround sound vs the SBx its only fair to compare the both using there full potential. 
http://thedigitaltheater.com/index.php/tools/

TLDR: The GSX and SBx both do excellent surround sound, the difference comes from how they both achieve this and the final output sound quality. 

 

[Thekarma]

I agree that testing CSGO isn't a comprehensive test, but from a competitive perspective it is a game that sound accuracy is very important in. I've always been happy with my set-up, but was intrigued by the competitive advantage the GSX could give me.  This test was just to establish if the GSX would help me play better, and I think it would not. I must state again that the GSX sounds great and works great, but not by an amount comparable to it's cost. If it didn't have the bad mic. input, fixed EQ, digital volume control, pointless reverb. and back/front mix I would use it; it would be awesome if it was just a usb to optical or stereo converter. I will probably buy the 2nd edition of GSX if they release one. I might even buy it in the sales or 2nd hand, but purely for single player games were the increased fidelity would be enjoyable.
 
Anyone who has bought and enjoys the GSX good for you, it's a cool idea for a product, this is just my experience; I'll wait for the 2nd edition

 

 

[shankly1985]

I guess it all boils down to taste of the sound quality these two products output. If the echo effect/hallway effect doesn't put you off the SBx than I guess the upgrade/sidegrade to a GSX wouldn't be enough.

I 100% agree Price is the killer for the GSX but at the same time it does offer features outside of the surround sound, like separation of communication and game audio a must have for gamers that record gameplays.

 

[pietcux]

mefxes

I agree that testing CSGO isn't a comprehensive test, but from a competitive perspective it is a game that sound accuracy is very important in. I've always been happy with my set-up, but was intrigued by the competitive advantage the GSX could give me.  This test was just to establish if the GSX would help me play better, and I think it would not. I must state again that the GSX sounds great and works great, but not by an amount comparable to it's cost. If it didn't have the bad mic. input, fixed EQ, digital volume control, pointless reverb. and back/front mix I would use it; it would be awesome if it was just a usb to optical or stereo converter. I will probably buy the 2nd edition of GSX if they release one. I might even buy it in the sales or 2nd hand, but purely for single player games were the increased fidelity would be enjoyable.

Anyone who has bought and enjoys the GSX good for you, it's a cool idea for a product, this is just my experience; I'll wait for the 2nd edition  

I learned from mefxes that pro gamers in CSGO only play in plain stereo. So if you want to enhance you gaming stats, you need to turn off all effects and play more. That is a rather cheap advise. I was surprised too, but it makes sense if you think about it. All what virtual surround over headphone can do is it can improve on the immersion for a deeper experience. And then it comes down to personal preference and taste.

 

[draven5494]

  I Un-boxed my GSX that was ready to be sent back to Amazon just to do more tests. I asked 10 people, both gamers and 'lay' people, to position a bot at a specific point in a map with their eyes shut, using only audio cues (CSGO). I then measured how far away they were from the point. The participants were blind to the condition they were in and the order was randomised to minimise rehearsal bias. Additionally, just out of interest they were asked which one they preferred. 4 people preferred the GSX, 3 peoples preferred the SBX and 3 people had no preference.
 

 
The results were interesting. I feel given the testing methods that the two sound solutions were within reasonable error margins of each other. However, the GSX seemed to perform/be interpreted worse when the cues were from behind. This was backup with observations. I noticed more participants made errors confusing front and back with the GSX. This is probably because the GSX is less muffled from behind so it is harder to tell the difference. As a high rank CSGO player this was the last evidence I needed to send back the GSX. However, the GSX does what Sennheiser does best, crystal clear audio. As I have already said, I think this is a great upgrade for gamers who only have on-board sound, Dolby headphones, or even an un-amped SBZ. If you already have a decent amp the GSX is a waste. It's a lot of money for something that software can do with very little CPU use. It's similar to when Razer Surround came out. There were videos saying it was as good as 'cheating' because of the advantage it gave you in CSGO. After the hype is gone it's just a slightly different 'tune' of an already existing technology. I wont go in to great detail, but there are only so many ways that you can trick the brain in to thinking sounds are coming from different directions and all the virtual surround companies use the same methods.
 
TLDR: Accuracy in CSGO was about the same for the Soundblaser Z and the GSX 1000. It was slightly harder to tell back from front on the GSX. The GSX sounds great, but is expensive and offers very little advantage over the Soundblaster Z with an Amp.

 
Thanks for doing this test.  It confirms my thoughts on the GSX 1000 as well.  I already had the Soundblaster X7 and wanted to try out the GSX 1000 because I was hearing so many good things and seeing great reviews.  Well, I should have held off on that.  Don't get me wrong, the GSX is a slick device and if I didn't already own the X7, I would probably keep it.  However, I find the 7.1 mode on the GSX to be hollow sounding compared to the X7.  It's a little hard to explain but the GSX sounds a bit muddy and indistinct.  Which is why I believe the audio position queues are harder to determine with the GSX compared to the X7. 
 
Like I said the GSX is a good device but it doesn't really improve upon anything that SBX already does. 

 

[shankly1985]

Just did this video I tried my best keeping these 1 to 1 has much possible. For me I like the GSX better the sound more natural, where the SBx sounds overdone. Obviously I could go into further testing changing each setting on either hardware but for this test I felt keeping them close to stock setting much as possible would be better.
 
 

 

[draven5494]

Excellent work on that video.  However, and I think it shows why I don't like the GSX as much as SBX.  To me, the GSX, even with the reverb turned off, adds too much of an artificial, spatial sound.  To me, the 7.1 on the GSX just doesn't sound as clear or crisp as SBX on my X7.
 
Another issue I have with the GSX is with it's rear audio queues.   You can especially hear it in the fire and explosion parts of your test.  The rear audio sounds significantly louder than the front channels, and I noticed this in my own tests.  I also made sure that the front or rear channel boost was turned off on the GSX and the rear audio was still distracting to me.  It was hard to tell distance.