[Speakerphile]

Quote:

Well what I am trying to say here is that for example sennheiser does very good sounding headphones indeed, my total disappointment is this whoraisesthepricemore race, trust me in mass production these headphones cost a ridicolous small fraction of the price we pay, it doesn't cost too much to put some good quality material in these cans, I can understand their research and design must be paid back but they are not designing a space shuttle. Also I don't know for you but in my personal case if I spend $300+ for some headphones I expect them to last at least 20 years, as example I have a couple of GENELEC amplified loudspeakers from 1987 that work just perfect (thanks God GENELEC still has this product philosophy) or I own and trade Russian and German lenses from the 70's that also perfectly work. I seriously doubt that modern headphones can last that long and still being enjoyable, imagine the HD800 within 20 years and all the shiny silvery paint coming off to leave exposed the fantastic whitish plastic, imagine the owner that payed $1000+ for these!! And what about reselling products, after few years this plastic stuff would be just rubbish to leave in a dump. I don't even want to talk about the spare parts and the service available for such expensive products, for most of the brands the parts are just available for few years and then good night, throw it away.
 
So in the last two decades the prices have increased exponentially and the materials, customer service and lifetime of the product is decreased exponentially, somebody could argue that we have improved the technology and then I would say WHAT!!! 90% of the headphones use exactly the same technique invented at the beginning of the 20th century, apart few exception like the beyerdynamic Tesla drive, the ring diaphragm from SENNHEISER and some other brave manufacturer which in my opinion did a little bit in terms of research. How about developing orthodynamic and electrostatic drivers, how about diaphragm technology like B&W and Focal did in their field, how about research in audiology that should be made by these entrepreneurs!! The range of frequency that goes from 3 KHz to 12 KHz is massively dependent on the ear canal of every single person, meaning every person has a different perception of timbre and audio frequency (as you can frequently verify on this website posts and reviews) and I still see people spending $$$$ in amplifiers and 196/24 bit DACS and cables while they are missing completely a big chunk of the auditory perception probably because of their ear-canal configuration.
 
OK I went a bit further but I have the sensation that like everything else in this world everything is going towards the feeble and transitory appearance replacing the substance and what really counts, in particular I am talking about brands that really made the history of the headphones and technology, like Sennheiser, AKG, Sony etc, please go back in your history and find again good research and substance and give us quality lasting products for a reasonable price, probably less products per year but better and smarter.
 
People buy less junk and favour good quality products, possibly buy good second hand stuff and buy new only if it is worth it, excellent audio product are not iphones to change every month!!

 
While I agree with your post in a general sense, I think you're being a little dramatic.  I don't know if I would compare a $350 headphone to a set of Genelec speakers, which tend to run many multiples of that price.  I would say that due to the plastic I value the Momentum at a lower price point, but it's not like they are a complete ripoff.  

 

[Speakerphile]

Quote:

 
I completely concur with you. Here is the thread on Sennheiser's HD800: http://www.head-fi.org/t/399951/sennheiser-hd800-spray-painted-plastic-and-the-new-acid-washed-jeans
 
So far only Apple has acknowleged the bane of plastic. They have long ago dumped the plastic screens on their iPhones and replaced them with glass and Apple also dumped the plastic chasis on their iMacs for extruded aluminum. Why can't Sennheiser follow suit?

If Apple had designed these, the earcups would probably be aluminum, and the price would likely be $499.99.  I applaud Apple's designs, but they are unquestionably the most expensive products in their respective categories.  I would probably pay an extra $50 for upgraded cups, but that's about it.  

 

[Craigster75]

Quote:

If Apple had designed these, the earcups would probably be aluminum, and the price would likely be $499.99.  I applaud Apple's designs, but they are unquestionably the most expensive products in their respective categories.  I would probably pay an extra $50 for upgraded cups, but that's about it.  

What headphones has Apple ever designed?  They know a great deal about pioneering new technology but they don't register in the headphone world.

 

[daniel521]

When is this coming out??

 

[robm321]

^ Mid September

 

[miceblue]

Quote:

LOL - its a more refined HD25-1 II. Improvements are across all frequencies. The highs are definitely less harsh

- where did you hear them? The Apple store in San Francisco is the only place that has them in stock. I noticed you're from the bay area also.

Looking at the audio tests from Innerfidelity, it seems that there is hardly a difference between the Amperior's drivers and that of the 2012 HD25i-ii. For me, that very very little difference isn't worth an additional $150. In fact, the frequency response curve looks more flat on the HD25-i-ii than the Amperior, has better bass extension, more noise isolation, and the 300 Hz square wave curve looks better, I think.

 

[robm321]

From Innerfidelity:
 
Quote:

Regarding the HD 25-1 II. The small walls radiating from the center are there to stiffen the rear wall of the housing so it doesn't absorb and re-radiate acoustic energy ... but plastic is pliant, so it does store a bit. Below it, you'll see the Amperior's aluminum capsule housing. It doesn't have these stiffening walls, but because it's aluminum it's dramatically stiffer than the plastic housing. It will not store nearly the same amount of energy as the plastic housing, and therefore releases less energy after the fact to muddy up the sound.
 
This phenomenon is readily apparent in the measurements of these two headphones. In the 300Hz square wave responses to the right, you can see that both waveforms are quite similar in general, showing that these two headphones are nearly identical. But it's also obvious that the HD 25-1 II response is noisier. I think this indicates the capsule housing releasing the stored energy from the intense transient of the leading edge of the square wave. There is obviously less of this noise in the Amperior square wave.
 
Similarly, you can see in the impulse response of these two headphones that the HD 25-1 II "rings" more, and creates a longer trail of noise after the impulse.

 
The person that did the measurements over there seemed to notice a difference. I noticed a difference looking at the two measurements... what are you talking about?

 

[daniel521]

Quote:

^ Mid September

:O 
 
EDIT: nevermind I just read it in the OP

 

[miceblue]

Quote:

From Innerfidelity:
 
 
The person that did the measurements over there seemed to notice a difference. I noticed a difference looking at the two measurements... what are you talking about?

That's why I added the "I think" part in my sentence. I didn't say it as fact. To me it looks better. The Amperior's 300 Hz curve is more angled upward rather than the flatter-looking HD25-i-ii; and the frequency response curve of the HD25 looks much flatter from 20 Hz - 2 kHz compared to the Amperior. The Amperior has about a +10 dB gain in the ~110 Hz area whereas the HD25 is about +5 dB relative to 400 Hz.
Quote:

In the 300Hz square wave responses to the right, you can see that both waveforms are quite similar in general, showing that these two headphones are nearly identical. But it's also obvious that the HD 25-1 II response is noisier. I think this indicates the capsule housing releasing the stored energy from the intense transient of the leading edge of the square wave. There is obviously less of this noise in the Amperior square wave.

 Whether one can actually detect the difference in noise is up for debate so I'm not going to go there.
 
The very same guy said this in his Wall of Fame article:
Quote:

At slightly more than half the price of their aluminum counterpart, the Amperior mentioned above, and with nearly as good sound quality, the HD 25-1 II is a great buy.

 
and this is from the Amperior review article:
Quote:

The driver assemblies look identical but for the markings. The drivers do have different impedances, but measurements show remarkable similarity, so I think they are much the same internally.

 
 
So what I'm talking about is that, like I said before, the very very slight difference in sound is not worth the extra $150 to me. Did I ever say there was no difference? No I did not, I said there was barely any differences between the two. You might as well buy the HD25 and apply small EQ changes. After all, if the Amperior is aimed at the "portable/on-the-go consumer" (since it has a lower impedance), the difference in sound quality is very minimal.
 
 
Hopefully the Momentum is more than just a mere "tweak" as the Amperior was to the HD25-i-ii.

 

[lubczyk]

Okay, this the most What answer I've ever read.
 
This is an answer from Sennheiser from my inquiry regarding an Android-compatible cable:
 
-------------------------------------
 
Good Afternoon Mr Lubczyk,

Thank you for contacting Sennheiser. At this time Sennheiser does
not offer an Android compatible microphone. The reason for this is
every phone manufacturer uses different wiring in their connection
ports which makes impossible to create a microphone that is
compatible across all models. If Sennheiser was to attempt to make a
microphone for each model and maintain the quality of audio that is
expected from Sennheiser the price would be far to high to justify
within the marketplace.

Have a great day.
 
--------------------------------
 
 
What? Different wiring?  You're telling me that relatively small-time companies like V-moda, Monster and Phillips can make Android along with Iphone mics for their headphones, while the world's largest headphone manufacturer can't?
 
Oh, and about the price being too high to justify Android' marketshare:
 
http://247wallst.com/2012/09/04/rim-market-share-heading-toward-zero/
 
Android has 52% of U.S. marketshare versus Apple's 33%. That's what they call not enough marketshare?

 

[sfoclt]

^ That Sennheiser response sounds like it came from someone for whom English isn't just a second language, but an enemy.

 

[robm321]

^ It's BS but that's how business works. They partner up and have to basically tow the line. Don't hate Sennheiser for growing and securing a partnership with Apple. That is a great business move for them. As a consumer, you should continue to read between the lines and do what's best for you.
 
You are doing a good job so far. Just don't try to rationalize their response. It will lead to frustration. They are contractually obligated to give an answer like that.

 

[Sennheiser]

Hello everyone! Apologies for not answering your queries earlier as I'm still in Berlin attending the IFA show. Anyway, here are some quick information on the MOMENTUM. I'll try to get online again tomorrow to answer any other questions.
 
Quote:

When is this coming out??

 
The MOMENTUM will be available from mid-September.
 
Quote:

I have a question on the drivers.  Some reports say the drivers are 40mm; others say they use the HD25 drivers.  However, my understanding is that the HD25 drivers are 36mm.  If that is the case, then perhaps Momentum doesn't use the same driver as Amperior??
 

 
They utilise new drivers, not the same as either the HD 25 or Amperior. 

 

[Curly21029]

Quote:

They utilise new drivers, not the same as either the HD 25 or Amperior. 

 
My initial assumption was, admittedly, incorrect...

 

[Twinster]

Hello everyone! Apologies for not answering your queries earlier as I'm still in Berlin attending the IFA show. Anyway, here are some quick information on the MOMENTUM. I'll try to get online again tomorrow to answer any other questions.


The MOMENTUM will be available from mid-September.


They utilise new drivers, not the same as either the HD 25 or Amperior. 

Thank you for the update! That is very interesting that they have new drivers. Now let's hope that they are an improved one.