[tvrboy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif A lot of audio is a scam.

Fixed that for you

 

[Seamaster]

I had Cardas, stock, and Stefan Audio cables at same time once. They all sound different, very noticable.

I also had Carads Golen Reference PC, now I am using cheaper vh audio F4 cables. F4 sound better. So I then, sold all my cardas.

In order to prove I have decent hearing: I pluged my amp in to wall because sound less open and dynamic than go through the power conditioner. I leave my CDP in the conditioner, because there is not much difference than plug in to wall.

 

[dallan]

Just got new very thick copper recable for the 800s. Warm open bassy fuller sound but not used to it. I feel like I am not hearing the accuracy that I had before. It takes me a bit always to adapt to new sound signitures so I probably need to give it a few days but I am a little concerned.

 

[scootermafia]

I doubt the Zana Deux is especially bright on its own, and the stock HD800 cable adds some faux-brightness from the silver-plated copper.

 

[dallan]

Actually the Zana Duex is not at all warm for a tube amp. Don't know if consider it bright but more like detailed sounding. The other thing with the new cables is they are a bit constricting for me in their size due to the 800s cable feed point. I knew it in advance but it is irritating me more than I expected. So I have a bit to swallow right now. They actually do seem to give a more "high end" sound though, which gives me hope.

 

[scootermafia]

I'm curious how the Zana compares to PJ's Phoenix, if you've tried it? Certainly it will be fun to try out his Beta when it's done. The cable was done with solid-state gear as the test hardware, so the cable seems neutral-sounding to me with the gear that I have at least, neither very bright nor dark. I may be in the market for a Little Dot MKVI so I can get a better sense of how the cables sound with a balanced tube setup, that amp has a rep for being pretty tubey.

 

[dallan]

I have tried his Phoenix a/b with the Zana, quickly_on touch at work-SE I liked the Zana better but balanced I somewhat perferred the Phoenix. I just liked the balanced sound a lot out of the 800s. Don't know if that is still the case though, at a later meet I noticed I liked them the same they were just very different, both good in thier own right. But the balanced Beta22 beat them both. The new cables I got are easily convertable to balanced for that exact reason. Don't know when still love the Zana but someday will balance probably.

 

[scootermafia]

Yeah, balanced Phoenix and HD800 have nice synergy. That's where I was coming from when I made the cables. The Zana and WA5 are said to be the ultimate in SE and I'd love to hear them. I've heard HD800 SE with some decent cabling out of the Phoenix and it's a little more of a dull, restrained sound but still very nice. Ying at YBM can make me a balanced B22 2 box for $2300, then $350 for the second sigma22 which I think I'd go for...so it's on my shopping list. However, PJ has told me that the Phoenix has a certain je ne sais quoi, a sort of un-solid-state sound to it that is very nice...I don't want to "miss" my Phoenix if I get one, so I would certainly not sell the Phoenix to fund a Beta...I'd want to give them a serious comparison. The Beta is surely the most resolving of the two, from what PJ has told me, however, and I'm a detail/analytical sound freak.

 

[iancraig10]

I saved the money for a cable and decided to buy a different headphone instead. Now that makes a massive difference for the same money!!

Bought an AKG 701 to contrast with the Senn HD600 and HD650.

The headphone route is far cheaper than the cable route for a bigger change.

Ian

 

[indydieselnut]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iancraig10 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I saved the money for a cable and decided to buy a different headphone instead. Now that makes a massive difference for the same money!! Bought an AKG 701 to contrast with the Senn HD600 and HD650. The headphone route is far cheaper than the cable route for a bigger change. Ian

Congrats on the purchase! I've been listening to the K702 that just showed up for the past couple of days. Of course you're correct - the difference between an HD650 and a K702 is larger than the difference between two different cables on an HD650. The K702 from B&H cost me $80 less than the Zu Mobius 2 for my HD650. In my world both are worthy investments.

I like this discussion, I just get a bit uptight when people take the "You must be a bit slow if you are willing to pay $300 for a cable that isn't measurably better" or the "your ears must not be resolving enough if you can't tell the difference between two cables." Understand that I'm not saying anyone in this thread has taken those stances, just giving examples. Music is still my passion and the gear is a hobby

 

[iancraig10]

Quote:

Originally Posted by indydieselnut /img/forum/go_quote.gif Congrats on the purchase! I've been listening to the K702 that just showed up for the past couple of days. Of course you're correct - the difference between an HD650 and a K702 is larger than the difference between two different cables on an HD650. The K702 from B&H cost me $80 less than the Zu Mobius 2 for my HD650. In my world both are worthy investments. I like this discussion, I just get a bit uptight when people take the "You must be a bit slow if you are willing to pay $300 for a cable that isn't measurably better" or the "your ears must not be resolving enough if you can't tell the difference between two cables." Understand that I'm not saying anyone in this thread has taken those stances, just giving examples. Music is still my passion and the gear is a hobby

Yes, the cable thing seems to bring out the worst in both sides.

The thing is, if someone is trying to make out you're an idiot because you don't hear something, then I'm afraid it's them, not you.

It reminds me of the types of Hi Fi people who are gagging to impress you with their gear. The first thing they do is turn it up to a deafening volume so that you notice the power. (They then go on about quality!!!)

If someone is trying to put you down or impress you with the gear, they have a problem.

A good audio guy will gently guide people and NOT tell them what they ought to be hearing. They'll give hints on how to listen and what to listen out for, but not stuff it down your throat and get nasty if you don't hear it.

If I get someone answering in that aggressive way, I act dumb until they let something stupid out themselves!! (It's more fun that way)

You're absolutely right - it's about music and the communication of emotion via sound.

Interestingly, no-one here was bothered about why I was looking into cables or what I was wnating to change. It was just assumed that a cable change was the route to go whatever or not to go whatever .....

Now here's the reason - I have been unhappy for quite a long time with the sound of strings on headphones and wanted to clean up the Senn sound while retaining their bass characteristics so that I could perhaps hear a slightly more 'silky' sound rather than a slightly muffled equivalent of string tone.

That's the first thing that anyone giving good advice would ask - what do you want to change?
Getting on a soap box isn't good advice is it? Also the thread brought out all the guys via email, trying to sell me a cable!!!!

I went on another site with the same question - got some really good advice, both on site and via email and so was guided to another route. Along the chat, people put in humourous quips and we had a laugh along the way, but the good advice was still there. No-one worried about going off-topic - we all just got stuck in, had a giggle and I may have improved my listening. That's what I love about the site I went on - they're a great bunch. (As well as mickey takers!!)

I don't take it that seriously because I do have a good set up anyway (speakers) which is why I got a bit concerned when you seemed upset. I didn't want to cause hirt feelings over a bloody cable!!!!

Ian

 

[MomijiTMO]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif A lot of audio is awfully close to a scam. Look at how much the components actually cost. Look at how much profit is built into things.

And yet everyone here has a laugh at the obvious scams [lessloss's newest 'thing'] but can you really mock that? Surely you must realise that the reason the AD900 is roughly double the price of the AD700 is not because it costs more, but because they can have higher margins because people are willing to pay a hell of a lot for what is largely a small improvement [significant yes but compared to no headphones, it's small].

I like Erik's approach. People here seem to enjoy being taken on the ride.

 

[scootermafia]

I'm not surprised if a pure copper cable isn't bright enough for many people's tastes with a tube amp, or if people like silver plated or pure silver cables better than copper because of their brighter tendencies. Some people are treble fans and can't live without intense treble, other people value bass most of all. It is very hard to find a cable for HD800 that will please all people on all systems.

I think 99% of people on headfi if trying out an HD800 cable can explain the sound differences they hear between a silver cable and a copper cable, for example. I think a large percentage of those people would prefer any well made cable to stock. Given what headphone cables cost (all are <$1400) it's at least less likely you're getting crap compared to the wild world of RCA cables where it's hard to tell the truly great designs from pretenders and prices go beyond $30,000. The key is to try a few different materials, a few different brands, that fit your budget and figure out which brings you the most listening enjoyment - one man's too bright is another man's ideal sound, and vice versa - so it's easy enough to sell the cable and get one you really like. Once you know which metals suit your gear and tastes, you can just stick it with it.

There's nothing wrong with Lessloss's product other than the fact that its mode of functioning is as yet unknown. They are claiming it does something that no previous product has ever aspired to do. Whereas, with headphone cables, we know basically what we're after and what each cable offers us (better geometry, better treatments, better wire purity, bigger wires, more comfortable, whatever it might be). So people that already like Lessloss stuff might try it, but the vast majority of people, myself included, who don't know how it works, are probably not going to have enough trust in the company to believe what they say.

Cables are just one way to enhance or change your sound, if you want your headphones to sound a certain way there are many ways to get there.

 

[Seamaster]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scootermafia /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm not surprised if a pure copper cable isn't bright enough for many people's tastes with a tube amp, or if people like silver plated or pure silver cables better than copper because of their brighter tendencies. Some people are treble fans and can't live without intense treble, other people value bass most of all. It is very hard to find a cable for HD800 that will please all people on all systems. I think 99% of people on headfi if trying out an HD800 cable can explain the sound differences they hear between a silver cable and a copper cable, for example. I think a large percentage of those people would prefer any well made cable to stock. Given what headphone cables cost (all are <$1400) it's at least less likely you're getting crap compared to the wild world of RCA cables where it's hard to tell the truly great designs from pretenders and prices go beyond $30,000. The key is to try a few different materials, a few different brands, that fit your budget and figure out which brings you the most listening enjoyment - one man's too bright is another man's ideal sound, and vice versa - so it's easy enough to sell the cable and get one you really like. Once you know which metals suit your gear and tastes, you can just stick it with it. There's nothing wrong with Lessloss's product other than the fact that its mode of functioning is as yet unknown. They are claiming it does something that no previous product has ever aspired to do. Whereas, with headphone cables, we know basically what we're after and what each cable offers us (better geometry, better treatments, better wire purity, bigger wires, more comfortable, whatever it might be). So people that already like Lessloss stuff might try it, but the vast majority of people, myself included, who don't know how it works, are probably not going to have enough trust in the company to believe what they say. Cables are just one way to enhance or change your sound, if you want your headphones to sound a certain way there are many ways to get there.

well siad. I worndering HD800 recabling will divide to two groups: copper/ plated copper Vs. silver/plated silver


If Mondrof makes stranded wire, that will very nice to make cable with.

 

[scootermafia]

Ah, Mundorf wire. When I made an HD650 cable with it, it was awfully warm sounding. I have yet to try it with HD800, but I am curious. It certainly is a pain in the butt to strip the wire and work with it. Stranded silver is as rare as hen's teeth in the audio world though, unless it's inside custom manufactured cables that you don't have access to.