[indydieselnut]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iancraig10 /img/forum/go_quote.gif The trouble here is that people get so het up and angry about cables like the guy above who reacted badly because someone disagreed. I do wonder if the anger that people show comes from the fact that a lot of money has been spent on whatever cable .....

Are you referring to me? I apologize if I came across as upset...I'm not upset at all. I think it's a bit funny that I was quoted right up to the point where I said that I'm not trying to substantiate anything and that everything I say is, obviously, my own opinion.

I'm a musician and buy gear to listen to music with. If it sounds more like music, that's enough for me. I don't measure my equipment and don't buy items based on measurement. My journey in audio has been one largely of trial and error and I wouldn't change a thing.

In the world of string instruments, people routinely buy a $5,000 violin bow instead of a $1,000 violin bow simply because of the synergy it has with their violin and playing style. You'd be hard-pressed to find anyone that could back up the superiority of the $5,000 bow with any kind of objective measurement. However, if it allows the musician to more freely express themselves because of a perceived, subjective quality I would argue it's done its job.

Bravo to Ian for preferring the stock Senn cable! The fact that I prefer the Blue Dragon cable certainly doesn't mean I have better hearing or even necessarily a deeper pocket. I'm not listening to my headphones pondering profit margin, cost of goods sold, opportunity cost, cost of capital, marketing cost, etc. I like to throw on some good tunes, sink into my ugly recliner, and stare at the concrete walls of my basement...

Well, that's not true. I also like to spend some time on the computer talking to my friends on Head-fi that also like to throw on some good tunes...

Cheers!

 

[indydieselnut]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fhuang /img/forum/go_quote.gif haven't been to here, the cable forum.......

You're right! I would have stayed away had I noticed this was originally posted in the cable forum. I get myself in trouble by searching new posts without noticing where they are located

The spirited debate I've seen in this part of the forum makes for interesting and educational reading, but my subjectivist leanings in audio don't qualify me to contribute much...

 

[9pintube]

Cables do make a difference, but not always for the good and very seldom SEEM worth the $$$$, as so many stated above......But, and it's a BIG BUT-----No one mentioned that to really improve the sound of "down stream" listening (ie,Headphones,speakers etc) you must first make sure your cables on your source equip. add to the improvement in the recorded music...I don't need to tell you members that one can't have 2 grand speaker cables and feed them from you turntable with a 100 buck tonearm IC.. Just do what makes you tap your feet and say Damn my rig sounds great...RIGHT...

 

[iancraig10]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9pintube /img/forum/go_quote.gif No one mentioned that to really improve the sound of "down stream" listening (ie,Headphones,speakers etc) you must first make sure your cables on your source equip. add to the improvement in the recorded music...I don't need to tell you members that one can't have 2 grand speaker cables and feed them from you turntable with a 100 buck tonearm IC.. Just do what makes you tap your feet and say Damn my rig sounds great...RIGHT...

Yes, you are right. I can definitely hear a difference with interconnects but also speaker cables and recently have had a disgustingly expensive setup installed for me to try at home. (£24,000 worth of kit) It scared the bejaysus out of me having it in the house but some cables were left with me and they DID sound different.

However, I have trouble hearing differences in headphone cables - at least the Stefan Audio.

I would love to experiment with headphone cables but my experience with the Stefan isn't particularly good. It was heavy on the headphone connections, it touched my shoulders when I turned my head and the plugs were literally soldered on under some shrink wrap, and the termination plug wasn't even straight with the cable!!

As for the sound - there 'may' have been a difference. I'm not sure to be honest but on that basis, paying another £200 - 400 for a cable just in case it may make a difference is a gamble.

Are you referring to me? I apologize if I came across as upset...I'm not upset at all. I think it's a bit funny that I was quoted right up to the point where I said that I'm not trying to substantiate anything and that everything I say is, obviously, my own opinion.

I'm a musician and buy gear to listen to music with. If it sounds more like music, that's enough for me. I don't measure my equipment and don't buy items based on measurement. My journey in audio has been one largely of trial and error and I wouldn't change a thing.

Sorry, I thought you were getting angry with Erik. I'm not trying to cause people to get uptight, just trying to find out what people think (away from those cable reviews)

I'm thinking about simply soldering a lead of my own and forgetting about commercial ones because of the pricing. It is impossible to hear these leads so we have to buy them on trust and I'm not happy with that following my Stefan feelings!!

I'm a musician too!!(An old 53 yr old one!!) Hi. Unfortunately, I don't think we are always the best at reviewing Hi Fi - too emotionally tied in to the music!!!

Ian

 

[indydieselnut]

Ian, no harm done at all. I really do appreciate Erik's reply and respect all the points he made. Even though I understand that price is not in direct relationship to quality, I do feel people typically match components based on cost. I'm not arguing that this is the correct way to approach things, it just tends to be the reality. If I had a budget of $5,000 to put together a headphone rig, I probably wouldn't allocate $4,000 of it to the interconnects. I might be missing out on audio nirvana by thinking that way!

Not to derail your thread, but I think your statement about musicians not being best suited for evaluating audio equipment is a very interesting one. I've always felt that my background aided my evaluation of equipment. I'll have to think about that one a little bit...

Good luck with your homemade cables! I've always "rolled my own" when it came to AC cords because it's easy and it allows me to always make the correct length. I also make my own speaker cables out of Belden wire for the same reasons. Interconnects have always intimidated me. I generally either buy those from Blue Jeans Cables or Signal Cable. My one foray into mega-buck wire with the Nordost Heimdall was very interesting...but my budget doesn't allow a whole system connected with that stuff!

 

[iancraig10]

Quote:

Originally Posted by indydieselnut /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ian, no harm done at all. Not to derail your thread, but I think your statement about musicians not being best suited for evaluating audio equipment is a very interesting one. I've always felt that my background aided my evaluation of equipment. I'll have to think about that one a little bit...

I'm glad you didn't take offence. I don't enjoy seeing people get het up with each other and I'm well aware what cables does on this forum!!!

Yes, the musician thing is funny. I play with some very good players and if you see what they listen on over here, it's hair raising. It's like they have absolutely no interest in hi fi whatsoever and are totally deaf to audio improvements unless they're massive!! (Or they do what I did - let someone else install something for you!!)

One cable that keeps getting a mention (via email) is the Headphile BlackSilver (?) cable. Apparently, it's not too expensive and pretty good. I'll have a look in any case. The thing is, I'm looking for 4. That's a lot of dosh.

Ian

 

[dallan]

Depending on your headphone the cable will vary. On the HD650s the Zu that I have was considered the top but it would never do for the 800s because it is silver and opens them up and brightens them. On my 800s the cable i am waiting for has no silver, pure copper and huge and bulky. We will see if I can deal with it, I am kind of jumpy after your descriptions of discomfort with the heavy cable. These things are going to be really thick but I wanted something where the difference from the stock was large. I'll let you know when the arrive, kinda went out on a limb due to a recommendation.

 

[iancraig10]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dallan /img/forum/go_quote.gif I am kind of jumpy after your descriptions of discomfort with the heavy cable. These things are going to be really thick but I wanted something where the difference from the stock was large. I'll let you know when the arrive, kinda went out on a limb due to a recommendation.

I didn't like the down weight on those little Sennheiser plugs and always felt that they were in danger of coming out if you held the cable and just dropped the wire. The sheer weight gave quite a jolt to the headphones, so I tended just not to move when I wore them.

Also the plugs went quite a long way down from the cups towards my shoulders. Hated that. Had to keep my head straight.

A bit like listening in a straight jacket!!

In the end, out of curiousity, I swapped back to stock and to be honest, I couldn't detect any enormous down-grade. Maybe a slight tonal shift. I was just relieved to not have that weight hanging round my ears!!!

I suppose I'm looking for something at a sensible price that makes a difference, first of all as an experiment on my part. Trouble is, it's difficult to experiment when you can't try them anywhere. It's also easy to be affected by the fact that you've paid a big price and so convince yourself that it's such a major improvement since it's not easy to suddenly switch back and hear exactly what differences there are. I'd love to be able to go into a dealer where there is a Senn HD650 with stock beside another recabled one - just to hear whether there is a difference or not.

The prices seem to be 'all or nuttin''. Cheapest 'upgrade' I've seen is around $100 for a 1 metre cable. Well, I don't want to sit with my head on top of my X-Can!! That's more like a piece of interconnect for gawd's sake.

Ian

 

[9pintube]

Damn, It seems many of "US" are surely (don't call me Shirley) on the same page!!!!Great responses.....

 

[dallan]

With the 650s I would recomend the Zu mobius. Mine are thin and easy to deal with but I don't know the price now, probably mid $300.US range. But like i said before, i am currently looking at DoubleHexil and his prices seem better, don't know how they work though.

It is a dilemma not to be able to check things out first. I thought my set up was increadible until I went to my first meet. Couldn't believe my ears when i got home and hooked up my incredible system again....wanted to chuck my xcan, didn't know what to think about my xdac or transport. The only thing I had going was my recabled HD650s and my DX1000s(still with stock cable and not even thinking about recable). At Canjam I saw some things that were touted as great that were horrible, other items like the PSaudio modified blew me away, also the xinkdac of Santicore's. My newer amp at that point held up but I saw I needed to up the dac. These are things that are so much more important than the cabling.

 

[iancraig10]

Yes. I get the feeling that it's just a final. 'fine' tuning of sound so if it's not good at the start, there's absolutely no point in playing around with cables really.

Funnily enough, I really like the X-Can V2. Maybe more than the V8. (Via HD600 and 650)

Ian

 

[dallan]

Ya the xcan is warm and sweet, I have the separate XPSU as well to drive it better and get more isolated quiet power...but I have to say when i upgraded to the Zana it was a whole different game. You hear a lot more, thus the cables make much more of a difference because of the huge difference in detail. I have the xcan V3 not 2 by the way. But the upgrade is a huge investment, i think the Zana was around $2300. plus tax....ouch. So be happy with a full wallet and the xcan until you are ready for a big jump. That's what i did, no half measures. I can say though, very few upgrades go unnoticed with that amp and the HD800s.

 

[missinglink]

You might be interested in RussAndrews Sennheiser cables for the HD600/650.

Russ Andrews HC1 Headphone cable : Upgrade the cable on your Sennheiser HD6...

They offer a 30 day money back guarantee.
Perhaps you are already familiar to you.

I replaced my 650 cables with one of theres and was very pleased but I agree with your sentiments about the hefty prices.
At least you can try these and return them.

 

[momomo6789]

put your own cable together and save the money. unless you need copper dripped in holy grail water then becoming magical and better then the copper sennheiser buys. for all you know they could be using radio shack wire under all those layers of sleeved wire .

 

[KevM2]

I mean past a certain point, there's only so much a cable can do. Once you hit a certain threshold, I believe you are paying for just a different emphasis on sound characteristics. Something like the Cardas or Equinox will best stock cables for most people, but around that price point and even some beyond, one cable isn't necessarily better or less than another. It just simply comes down to preferences and system synergy. But getting those cables past those generics can usually yield a positive result, especially the better off your system is.